And what do you offer the woman? You are focusing on your needs and that’s not the foundation of a healthy relationship. If you have daughters, is that the role you see them playing when they are adults?
This could apply to men as well.
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He @Andrewgen_Receptors said he is provisioning for his family, meeting its needs.
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A 6-figure salary, present father in the home, physical safety and security, to name a few… want me to fill out a resume as to why I’m a catch? 
I’m providing the needs I can offer for my family, and need (have) a wife who provides the remaining needs my family has. I’m not the only man in this position.
What other needs does my wife have that would you like to add?
My daughter, statistically, would be happier if she found a man who could provide for her what I can provide for my wife and family.
Sure, but I think it’s much more common for men to want to be working - at least that is my perspective. I’d go crazy sitting at home taking care of children; I’m not built for that.
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Your assumption is that every woman needs and/or wants that. Your assumption is that all of that is sufficient for a woman. Maybe for some it is but do all women need to conform to your vision of what they should want and need and be satisfied with? What if the woman can make more money than you because she is smarter and more talented? What do you offer that woman?
I wouldn’t think about my kids in terms of statistics but as individuals. I also wouldn’t assume what would make them happy.
What happens when the kids are old enough to not need full time mothering?
Yes, its needs. This doesn’t mean it’s what every family needs. People, and that includes women, are individuals.
Some more advice I would give young men and boys is to stop watching comic book and Star Wars movies and arguing about them on the internet. We can argue about feminism and career minded women but what woman who takes herself seriously would want an unmasculine man who behaves like a boy? It’s not about safety or providing resources but reliability. A career minded woman wants a man who she can rely on to be there and share responsibilities. Two adults can figure out how to balance their professional and private lives to raise a healthy family.
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No, YOUR assumption is that you think this is MY assumption. All I said was “teach your sons and daughters to cook, clean, and work hard”, and you’re arguing against that. I don’t know what the fuck else you want from this exchange other than to be the contrarian we all know you to be. I haven’t said anything outrageous, and have been factually correct in everything I’ve said when applied to societal trends.
Feel free to argue that women want broke men who don’t provide security or fatherly presence though 
No, I’m saying they should know how to take care of a fucking house, like every man should know how to do as well.
Women don’t marry down, so that woman wouldn’t marry me. I wouldn’t be able to offer her what she wants - which would be to marry across and up the socioeconomic ladder.
Did you not also say
..? So “What role do you see them playing as adults, but also don’t assume what role they would play as adults”. Dude, what the fuck?
I don’t think of my daughter as a statistic, I said that statisically, she would be happier with a man who can provide at least what I can. It’s not unreasonable for me to say that any woman (including my daughter) would inherently want a man who earns in the top 10% of incomes. If she wants to work, she can; I just want that to be her choice. If she marries some broke dude, then she will have NO choice in the matter, so what the fuck are you on about again?
My wife can work if she wants to, or she can live the retired SAHM life and work on keeping her looks and minor household upkeep. I think being allowed to do as she wants with her day-to-day with the only ask of spending <1hour daily keeping up with a house, would be much more preferrable than working 40 hours for some dickhead boss. Care to offer an opinion as to what my wife would want, like you’ve done repeatedly in this exchance?
None. Ironically, Tate points to this occasionally as well - so you two have that in common.
You think women don’t care if their man makes them feel safe or not? Interesting take, considering the last 200,000 years of human existence.
I’ve reached my limit of @zecarlo for a while. Back on ignore.
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That sounds very romantic.
I have two teenage daughters and I would have failed as a parent if they were thinking in terms of income deciles.
Here’s some well meaning advice, I’m being completely serious - if you’re around thirty and your wife is a housewife ( and you have less than six kids) your life will be a living hell in max ten years time.
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Prove me wrong.
*sigh*
They won’t/shouldn’t be looking at it for the sole purpose of income. As your daughters’ father, you are the model whom they will emulate for their spouses. If you are a top 10% earner, they will inherently seek that, although it is also genetic in part. 80% of women reproduce yet only 40% of men do. Why do you think that is? Do you think the 40% of men who do reproduce are more or less fortunate and why?
I spoke in terms of money, but not directly pointed at money in purpose, I should have been more clear in that - you’ll have to excuse me. Zecarlo’s little back and forth bs is tiresome and rife with “gotcha” traps.
Why? I’d like to hear your opinions/experience and what specific form of ‘hell’ you’re referring to.
A potential divorce may prove me right. Not doing anything but occasional housework, child rearing and beauty treatments is very mentally damaging long term. In ten years time you’ll have a middle aged craaazy/bored woman on your hands. Then she’ll find either a lover, a MLM scheme to waste your money or go crazy for healing crystals/auras/whatever.
And it’s the children who’ll also suffer, potentially having a helicopter mom watching their every move.
You’re on to something here, but from a wrong angle Don’t think in Peterson’s BS terms (just look how he raised his daughter).
Children are like sponges. They’re absorbing everything, including the nuclear family dynamic, both subconsciously and consciously. It matters more how you and your wife interact with each other, your kids and other people that your alleged income bracket. I’m talking years and years here. I’m still unconsciously doing some things a very specific way and holding some specific values because of how my father behaved 30 years ago when I was 15.
Stop fixating on income and socio economic status. What happens if you drop out of the 10% income bracket due to some calamity, chronic illness or whatever? Will your wife look for greener pastures to ensure that she still holds her coveted higher economic status? What about your daughters? Will they learn by example to dump their boyfriend/husband if a higher income percentile shows up?
In my personal opinion, a marriage is a partnership between two (equal) people who have feelings for each other and whose purpose (in most cases) in raising offspring and making them good people.
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I don’t look at my marriage through the lense of money. I work, my wife doesn’t. We got married when I was broke and enlisted, she doesn’t care about my money - but is certainly happier when we have it… nothing hits quite like not being able to pay for groceries after they’re all bagged. We were also best friends for years before that, so that takes things into a very different context from most relationships.
I’ll send her off to the sweat shops then lol. She’s mentioned interests in certain career paths that appeal to her, I’ve encouraged those paths because they would keep her busy - but at a pace where she isn’t forced to work. If she stays stagnant for too long where I find it to be damaging, I’ll bring this up as I have before - but that won’t be anytime soon.
You don’t think this has inherent financial outcomes as well? That’s kind of what I was getting at. I do believe that people of similar income brackets tend to have similar habits or tendencies that are not seen outside of those circles. Note that I’m not saying some super wealthy income bracket.
It isn’t men who tend to do this RE the dating scene.
This is what it ought to be, but we can’t ignore the inherent differences between what each gender wants, and the unique role each one holds in a child’s development.
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It’s not so much how much you make, but the fact you are financially stable. There is some peace of mind that comes with that.
Research seems to show that money has rapidly diminishing returns in happiness after financial stability is reached.
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I know three housewives who’ve been married for more than ten years. One is married to a multimillionaire tax litigator with his own business and family friend since ‘76 and she seems to be happy as a pig in shit. The other two seem fine and are still in the thick of raising kids. I highly doubt any will divorce.
Marrying solely for financial arrangement is a bad idea, I believe. However, not considering socioeconomic class of potential mates is a bad idea too.
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Housewives were the target demographic for diazepam (amongst other sedatives/hypnotics) when it was initially marketed.
This isn’t to say all housewives are unhappy … though sizable numbers were.
Numbers of housewives going nuts was large enough to trigger the synthesis of a ‘miracle’ cure that would replace those aDdIcTiVe barbituates…
Diazepam wound up causing huge problems as it was no less addictive relative to barbituates. The same can be said for other hypnotics like oxazepam (also marketed towards housewives).
Is this mostly an American culture thing?
There are plenty of Indian immigrant families where the wife is a stay at home mom who is perfectly happy with it. Indians (and Asians in general) have the stereotype of the wife being a doctor or some other STEM professional, but there are a lot of stay at home Indian moms too. My mom went from a dental associate to a stay at home wife and there were zero issues. I can’t think of an Indian household where the wife becoming a housewife was an issue.
Then again, in every case the wife was part of an extended family. So there were plenty of in-laws to talk to, and they were often very close to their own siblings and cousins. I can imagine it being hell if the housewife only had her kids the entire day and no one else.
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Yes.
An interesting paradox is at work too. Women as a group were supposedly miserable being housewives, yet we are still informed about their misery while making more money than men in some cities, pursuing all the accolades and career paths they want, making up the majority of university graduates, the majority of law students, the majority of advanced-degree students, and the majority of HR employees. Being HR employees they have the ability to actually mold professional life.
Several typically-female fields provide six-figure salaries. All sorts of programs and organizations are formed on behalf of women.
Women don’t even need men to live satisfying lives now and plenty live darn good. Women are in several traditionally male spaces. Women are worshipped in American society, which is flagrantly obvious to anyone with a smart phone and television yet we still have such a problem.
Why is that?
Article I read some time ago:
Another one I read some time ago:
Certainly these articles are not describing all women, likely not even a majority.
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It could just be my experience, but it seems like I hear a lot more women complaining about their co-workers, boss, work drama than men. Perhaps men are just less likely to talk about it?
I’ve seen this in other areas outside of work as well. Women in families or friend groups often have grudges against each other, try to undermine each other subtly, are passive aggressive to each other, taking things personally, not letting small transgressions go, etc. I don’t see that with men as much. Could be just what I’ve experienced though too. I do think I am someone who doesn’t attract much drama, so that could be part of it.
This type of stuff would make me significantly less happy if I was involved in it. More anxious too.
Could there be a gender gap in happiness from these factors? IDK, something I’ve thought of before. I do admit these are just my observations.
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I believe your observations are correct and that what you’re describing is unchangeable, like how the sun rises and sets is unchangeable.
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Perhaps it is a love hate thing with the drama. It seems most women would want less drams at work, family, friend groups, but also many women consume drama based media. Stuff like dating shows, Kardashians, real house wives, relationship podcasts, etc… Conversation seems to go towards relationship stuff or gossip. With so many women (not all) having such a focus on drama, it makes me think there is an aspect of it they like. Perhaps the excitement of it?
I’d say with my male friends we do get into some of this stuff, but it is a rarity. I do think it is good to talk about sometimes. I think sometimes that I’d like to have more of it. Recently my best buddy and I had a talk about our marriages, struggles with them. It was nice to know I am not alone, and we had some problems in common. Almost all the time though it is either sports, lifting, cars, investing, guns or some other common interest.
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Anybody that predicates happiness with an If or When or anything else is doomed.
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That’s true, ever since they started to build and design their own houses, cars, computers, smart phones, and, dare I say, huh…vacuum cleaners…
I’m sorry, I’m just being an arse.
No, it’s not just your experience. I’d say it’s everyone’s experience, including women.
It’s also one of the reasons why we, men, drop dead twenty years before they do.
Women unburden themselves of their problems right into our ears when we’d rather sleep instead of listening to how her friend “Carmen said ‘Hi’ but it was the way she said it, kinda bitchy, don’t you think?”
They relieve themselves of stress while stressing us.
I hope I’m not sounding too sexist. I’m half kidding.
But also half serious…
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No doubt. I know what you mean, and the way you put it is funny. I’m sure you know what I meant too.
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