[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris says: You must be really smart.[/quote][quote]Mak answers: Not in the slightest,[/quote]I just wanted to momentarily highlight this rare and commendable flash of personal honesty on Mak’s part.
[/quote]
Unlike you, I’m not that full of myself.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You’re either incredibly naive or just trolling at this point.[/quote]
You must be really smart.[/quote]
Not in the slightest, I just know what people are actually like. If you stepped out once in a while, you might know as well.[/quote]
Kthxbai.[/quote]
And as I predicted, you continue to ignore the reality of human nature.
Try hanging around people outside your church group sometimes Chris. This is not meant as a slight, it just seems like you’re insulated and need exposure to different types of people.
[quote]Makavali wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:[quote]Brother Chris says: You must be really smart.[/quote][quote]Mak answers: Not in the slightest,[/quote]I just wanted to momentarily highlight this rare and commendable flash of personal honesty on Mak’s part. [/quote]Unlike you, I’m not that full of myself.[/quote]Oh knock it off. I’m jist goofin on ya.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’ve already posted studies, out of principal I’m not doing it for a 3rd time. But I’ll restate what they show. Places where contraception Use are taught in schools have the low teen pregnancy rates. Places where it’s not taught (Lubbock,tx for example) have sky high rates.
Contraception education and access to contraception help lower unwanted pregnancies.
Also making abortions illegal does very little to curb abortions. You already said you’re unwilling to lock up women or investigate them deeply, so your solution is bunk [/quote]
The correlative evidence is weak, I can post just as many studies if not more that say the opposite. You have some that say yea, I have others that say nae. So who do you believe, the yea, or the nae? I can post tons of studies from people with a shit load of letters behind their names that say none of that did shit.
I’l post them if you want, but I figured it would be a waste of time. There are to many factors to make involved to make a statistically significant correlative event.
Just in general the U.S. populous is now majority anti-abortion in most cases, that alone could be the reason for the change. There are also socio-economic factors and changing demographics that also involved. Since nobody did a direct study of contraception and education on a static populous before and after the availability of education and contraception availability.
Further, you misunderstood me. I said my goal at this time isn’t to punish people for having an abortion. After a law is on the books of course punishment is necessary or the law is worth less. And I would punish the providers much harder than the recipients.
And of course, outlawing a morally repugnant act would work, do you know of any slaves? That law worked. This isn’t like speeding. We’re talking about human life. Solely based on the fact that it’s murder, it should be illegal or murder should be legal.
Already if you kill a woman’s fetus outside of an abortion clinic, you will be charged with murder in most states.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Look, they just have compassion for women. [/quote]
None of that excusable but there is wrong on both sides.
You see pro-life picketers hooting and hollering at some people having the WORST day of their lives. Couples who’ve been trying to have a child but end up getting an abortion because something catastrophic has occurred to the fetus. It’s despicable and people who do that should be ashamed of themselves.
[/quote]
So, if there is nothing wrong with abortion, how would it then be the worst day of their lives? Wouldn’t it just be another thing, like removing an abscess?
And I thought you said abortion is not a traumatic event?[/quote]
You didn’t read what I wrote.
The only people who experience depression after an abortion (generally) are those trying to have children.
But the actual abortion procedure itself is not shown to be traumatic. [/quote]
Why did you say it’s the worst day of their lives? I have had some really bad days in my life and they were quite traumatic. It’s hard to pick the worst, but if it’s the worst day of your life, you are traumatized.
[quote]pat wrote:
The correlative evidence is weak, I can post just as many studies if not more that say the opposite. [/quote]
No it’s really not and that’s why practically every related health and medical recommend comprehensive sex education. Even the studies Chris posted concluded that better access to contraception and education were key. Most unintended pregnancies were result of improperly using contraception.
[quote]pat wrote:
You have some that say yea, I have others that say nae. So who do you believe, the yea, or the nae? I can post tons of studies from people with a shit load of letters behind their names that say none of that did shit.
I’l post them if you want, but I figured it would be a waste of time. There are to many factors to make involved to make a statistically significant correlative event.[/quote]
[quote]pat wrote:
Just in general the U.S. populous is now majority anti-abortion in most cases, that alone could be the reason for the change. There are also socio-economic factors and changing demographics that also involved. Since nobody did a direct study of contraception and education on a static populous before and after the availability of education and contraception availability.[/quote]
Places where comprehensive sex education are taught generally have much lower teen pregnancy rates than places that teach abstinence-only.
The American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Public Health Association, the Society for Adolescent Medicine and the American College Health Association, have all stated official support for comprehensive sex education.
[quote]pat wrote:
Further, you misunderstood me. I said my goal at this time isn’t to punish people for having an abortion. After a law is on the books of course punishment is necessary or the law is worth less. And I would punish the providers much harder than the recipients. [/quote]
I’m not talking about providers
[quote]pat wrote:
And of course, outlawing a morally repugnant act would work, do you know of any slaves? That law worked. This isn’t like speeding. We’re talking about human life. Solely based on the fact that it’s murder, it should be illegal or murder should be legal.[/quote]
[quote]pat wrote:
Already if you kill a woman’s fetus outside of an abortion clinic, you will be charged with murder in most states.[/quote]
Irrelevant.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Look, they just have compassion for women. [/quote]
None of that excusable but there is wrong on both sides.
You see pro-life picketers hooting and hollering at some people having the WORST day of their lives. Couples who’ve been trying to have a child but end up getting an abortion because something catastrophic has occurred to the fetus. It’s despicable and people who do that should be ashamed of themselves.
[/quote]
So, if there is nothing wrong with abortion, how would it then be the worst day of their lives? Wouldn’t it just be another thing, like removing an abscess?
And I thought you said abortion is not a traumatic event?[/quote]
You didn’t read what I wrote.
The only people who experience depression after an abortion (generally) are those trying to have children.
But the actual abortion procedure itself is not shown to be traumatic. [/quote]
Why did you say it’s the worst day of their lives? I have had some really bad days in my life and they were quite traumatic. It’s hard to pick the worst, but if it’s the worst day of your life, you are traumatized.
[/quote]
What’s is the purpose of this post? To question a generality?
Why is it that the most conservative states have the highest teen pregnancy rate? Legality aside, culturally they are most likely to be anti-abortion so obviously that strategy is not working for them.
I’m with Raj on the contraceptives and education. Sure, teach the kids abstinence is the best option but also teach the kids that if they’re going to do something stupid, do it smart.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I’m with Raj on the contraceptives and education. Sure, teach the kids abstinence is the best option but also teach the kids that if they’re going to do something stupid, do it smart.[/quote]
I agree. My girlfriend is a pediatrician with a focus on adolescent medicine. Turns out it’s surprisingly hard to get kids to use protection in the first place. “Do you use protection?” “Um… sometimes” That’s the common answer.
I really don’t think abortion is a good excuse for “I’m an idiot and didn’t use protection because I didn’t think I’d actually get pregnant.”
But I also don’t think liposuction is a good excuse for “I’m an idiot and didn’t pay attention to my diet when my doctor told me I should.”
It’s a procedure, and is inherently neither right or wrong. It’s the when/how/why that I have issues with.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I’m with Raj on the contraceptives and education. Sure, teach the kids abstinence is the best option but also teach the kids that if they’re going to do something stupid, do it smart.[/quote]
I agree that it should be done. I disagree that it’s had a profound effect. The evidence is just no compelling.
I am not for the educational component rendering an opinion as to what a person should do, abstinence or otherwise. Just the facts please…It’s biology and that’s how it should be treated.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Why is it that the most conservative states have the highest teen pregnancy rate? Legality aside, culturally they are most likely to be anti-abortion so obviously that strategy is not working for them.[/quote]
Look at the demographics… You’re looking at ‘conservative states’ interms of registered voters, not general populous.
None if this changes the fact that you are still taking a human life in an abortion, therefore, it’s still wrong and should be outlawed.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
The correlative evidence is weak, I can post just as many studies if not more that say the opposite. [/quote]
No it’s really not and that’s why practically every related health and medical recommend comprehensive sex education. Even the studies Chris posted concluded that better access to contraception and education were key. Most unintended pregnancies were result of improperly using contraception.
[quote]pat wrote:
You have some that say yea, I have others that say nae. So who do you believe, the yea, or the nae? I can post tons of studies from people with a shit load of letters behind their names that say none of that did shit.
I’l post them if you want, but I figured it would be a waste of time. There are to many factors to make involved to make a statistically significant correlative event.[/quote]
[quote]pat wrote:
Just in general the U.S. populous is now majority anti-abortion in most cases, that alone could be the reason for the change. There are also socio-economic factors and changing demographics that also involved. Since nobody did a direct study of contraception and education on a static populous before and after the availability of education and contraception availability.[/quote]
Places where comprehensive sex education are taught generally have much lower teen pregnancy rates than places that teach abstinence-only.
The American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Public Health Association, the Society for Adolescent Medicine and the American College Health Association, have all stated official support for comprehensive sex education.
[/quote]
And these say otherwise:
http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/teensex.pdf
I am talking about both.
The availability of the abortion pills have heavily skewed the numbers. If you throw in abortion pills the numbers go up drastically. Those numbers only include procedural abortions, still tragic though.
For instance:
http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/nations/spain/2011/12/14/visualizza_new.html_13754134.html
[quote]
[quote]pat wrote:
Already if you kill a woman’s fetus outside of an abortion clinic, you will be charged with murder in most states.[/quote]
Irrelevant.[/quote]
It is relevant in that the law has already set a precedence for a murder charge for killing the unborn. Why would you be charged for murder for killing an unborn, if it’s not a human life?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Why is it that the most conservative states have the highest teen pregnancy rate? Legality aside, culturally they are most likely to be anti-abortion so obviously that strategy is not working for them.[/quote]
Look at the demographics… You’re looking at ‘conservative states’ interms of registered voters, not general populous.
None if this changes the fact that you are still taking a human life in an abortion, therefore, it’s still wrong and should be outlawed.[/quote]
Well its teen pregnancy so most are not even old enough to vote anyway.
The standard conservative view on healthcare is that people are better off dead than burdening the rest of the population with their healthcare costs. I don’t see how this is any different as many abortions are done for financial reasons which prevent the state from possibly being burdened with extra costs.
(personal) Question(s): Has anyone in this thread been involved with a woman/girl who has had an abortion?
Does anyone have any real experience with the subject matter?
[quote]imhungry wrote:
(personal) Question(s): Has anyone in this thread been involved with a woman/girl who has had an abortion?
Does anyone have any real experience with the subject matter? [/quote]I was married to a woman who had two.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]imhungry wrote:
(personal) Question(s): Has anyone in this thread been involved with a woman/girl who has had an abortion?
Does anyone have any real experience with the subject matter? [/quote]I was married to a woman who had two.
[/quote]
Before I go on, i’d like to just get a few things out of the way…
I’m not here to start any trouble or be disrespectful to anyone. I’d like to just possibly add something a little different to the typical abortion thread, as it seems like they are all pretty much the same.
Tiribulus, i’m assuming that this happened before you met her, correct?
Was this before you accepted God into your life?
If i’m being too personal, then i’m sure you’ll let me know.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Why is it that the most conservative states have the highest teen pregnancy rate? Legality aside, culturally they are most likely to be anti-abortion so obviously that strategy is not working for them.[/quote]
Look at the demographics… You’re looking at ‘conservative states’ interms of registered voters, not general populous.
None if this changes the fact that you are still taking a human life in an abortion, therefore, it’s still wrong and should be outlawed.[/quote]
Well its teen pregnancy so most are not even old enough to vote anyway.
The standard conservative view on healthcare is that people are better off dead than burdening the rest of the population with their healthcare costs. I don’t see how this is any different as many abortions are done for financial reasons which prevent the state from possibly being burdened with extra costs.[/quote]
No, the standard view on healthcare is that everybody who can should take care of themselves and not put the burden on others. And technically everybody has free healthcare. You go to the ER, you are required to be seen and cared for. So your claim is garbage from the start. So here’s the thing, you are proposing a mythical argument against a real life tragedy.
There are no actaul conservatives willfully allowing or causing the death of anybody by their stance on healthcare. There are 1.2 million people getting killed every year because of abortion. Those are the ones who go to the clinics. Then there’s the pills that kill too. Or you got the ol’ fashion Penny Royal tea.
[quote]imhungry wrote:
(personal) Question(s): Has anyone in this thread been involved with a woman/girl who has had an abortion?
Does anyone have any real experience with the subject matter? [/quote]
I haven’t been with any, I have known them though. One was bat shit crazy…