[quote]therajraj wrote:
Holy shit.
People who are taught about contraception and more likely to use contraception than those who don’t.
The use of contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies.
Fewer unwanted pregnancies means fewer abortions.
What are you not understanding?[/quote]
Not actually true.
http://www.1flesh.org/argument_page/artificial-contraception-reduce-unplanned-pregnancies/
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion
[/quote]
Congratulations, truth isn’t decided by democratic vote.
Some contraception is abortifacient…this is a medical fact.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Holy shit.
People who are taught about contraception and more likely to use contraception than those who don’t.
The use of contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies.
Fewer unwanted pregnancies means fewer abortions.
What are you not understanding?[/quote]
Not actually true.
http://www.1flesh.org/argument_page/artificial-contraception-reduce-unplanned-pregnancies/[/quote]
Do you just go to catholics.org and accept everything they say? Do some actual research.
The majority of studies show the effectiveness of comprehensive sex education.
According to that study cited in that link, the main reason for contraception failure was misuse of methods or partners failing to withdraw.
Seeing how 42% of the US student don’t receive comprehensive sex education it’s not surprising people are not using contraception correctly. Even the study cited concluded “Improving the training of family planning providers remains a major goal to ensure that women use a contraceptive method that fits their social and sexual lifestyle.”
http://www.kff.org/youthhivstds/upload/Sex-Education-in-the-U-S-Policy-and-Politics.pdf
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion
[/quote]
Congratulations, truth isn’t decided by democratic vote.
Some contraception is abortifacient…this is a medical fact.[/quote]
Did you click on the link I provided?
The American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists are undecided on this issue. They are doctors with advanced degrees.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Holy shit.
People who are taught about contraception and more likely to use contraception than those who don’t.
The use of contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies.
Fewer unwanted pregnancies means fewer abortions.
What are you not understanding?[/quote]
Not actually true.
http://www.1flesh.org/argument_page/artificial-contraception-reduce-unplanned-pregnancies/[/quote]
Do you just go to catholics.org and accept everything they say? Do some actual research.[/quote]
Um…I’m not sure you noticed by 1flesh.org is not catholics.org. It’s not even a catholic website.
Please let’s see those links.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion
[/quote]
Congratulations, truth isn’t decided by democratic vote.
Some contraception is abortifacient…this is a medical fact.[/quote]
Did you click on the link I provided?
The American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists are undecided on this issue. They are doctors with advanced degrees.[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure their parents are proud of them. What makes them the authority on the position of pro-lifers?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Um…I’m not sure you noticed by 1flesh.org is not catholics.org. It’s not even a catholic website.[/quote]
And I’m sure you weren’t liked to that site from some catholic site or catholic blog
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Please let’s see those links.[/quote]
I posted a bunch in the past, here are a couple. Feel free to use Google Scholar
http://www.planetwire.org/files.fcgi/7689_Ab_Only_Ed_Kohler_.pdf
Teaching about contraception was not associated with increased risk of adolescent
sexual activity or STD. Adolescents who received comprehensive sex education had a lower risk of
pregnancy than adolescents who received abstinence-only or no sex education. �??�??�??�?�© 2008 Society for
Adolescent Medicine. All rights reserved.
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/108729102320231144
Comprehensive sex education, which emphasizes the benefits of abstinence while also teaching about contraception and disease-prevention methods, has been proven to reduce rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection.
The following organizations support Comprehensive sex education:
The American Psychological Association,[16] the American Medical Association,[17] the National Association of School Psychologists,[18] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[19] the American Public Health Association,[20] the Society for Adolescent Medicine[21] and the American College Health Association
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion
[/quote]
Congratulations, truth isn’t decided by democratic vote.
Some contraception is abortifacient…this is a medical fact.[/quote]
Did you click on the link I provided?
The American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists are undecided on this issue. They are doctors with advanced degrees.[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure their parents are proud of them. What makes them the authority on the position of pro-lifers?[/quote]
So you didn’t click on the link I provided?
An association of pro-life doctors are not considered an authority on this issue to you? WOW.
This is an example of why I hate this media at times like this . . . . could you please rephrase what you are trying to say.
[quote]therajraj wrote: The number of abortions reported reported to the CDC in 1980 was 1,297,606.
The number of abortions reported reported to the CDC in 2008 was 825,564.
During that period the US population increased by over 82 million people.
[/quote]
My take on the whole matter is quite simple shrug Life begins at the moment of conception.
I am trying to clean up the posts and keep things short and simple.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion [/quote]
I hope you are right. I am used to his position and if he would like clarification, he just needs to ask me. There is nothing I am confused about.
[quote]countingbeans wrote: No one is asking you to stop. But rather affirm what you (and others) are doing is working. I mean I’m pretty sure Raj is kinda on your side about this part of the issue, lol.
I believe what they are saying is: “Hey, look, education (what you are trying to do I assume) about this whole ‘having sex’ thing is working, and the rates are going down.”
Change doesn’t happen over night.[/quote]
My entire position on the respect of life can be summed up in five simple to understand words; From conception to natural death. The pro-death camp can never be summed up nearly as succinctly nor as honestly. Do you ever wonder why that is?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Um…I’m not sure you noticed by 1flesh.org is not catholics.org. It’s not even a catholic website.[/quote]
And I’m sure you weren’t liked to that site from some catholic site or catholic blog
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Please let’s see those links.[/quote]
I posted a bunch in the past, here are a couple. Feel free to use Google Scholar
http://www.planetwire.org/files.fcgi/7689_Ab_Only_Ed_Kohler_.pdf
Teaching about contraception was not associated with increased risk of adolescent
sexual activity or STD. Adolescents who received comprehensive sex education had a lower risk of
pregnancy than adolescents who received abstinence-only or no sex education. �??�??�??�??�?�© 2008 Society for
Adolescent Medicine. All rights reserved.
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/108729102320231144
Comprehensive sex education, which emphasizes the benefits of abstinence while also teaching about contraception and disease-prevention methods, has been proven to reduce rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection.
The following organizations support Comprehensive sex education:
The American Psychological Association,[16] the American Medical Association,[17] the National Association of School Psychologists,[18] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[19] the American Public Health Association,[20] the Society for Adolescent Medicine[21] and the American College Health Association
[/quote]
I see the confusion. You were commenting on something that I am not aware of I was commenting on these two statements:
[quote]The use of contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies.
Fewer unwanted pregnancies means fewer abortions. [/quote]
Contraception does not prevent unwanted pregnancy, it lowers it in the short term. But in the long term that is untrue. Those rates go up overtime.
This is somewhat obviously from the out-of-wedlock rates dramatically increasing. Not surprisingly 50% of abortions are done on those in the age range with the highest out of wedlock rate.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion
[/quote]
Congratulations, truth isn’t decided by democratic vote.
Some contraception is abortifacient…this is a medical fact.[/quote]
Did you click on the link I provided?
The American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists are undecided on this issue. They are doctors with advanced degrees.[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure their parents are proud of them. What makes them the authority on the position of pro-lifers?[/quote]
So you didn’t click on the link I provided?
An association of pro-life doctors are not considered an authority on this issue to you? WOW.
[/quote]
I know who they are and yes I clicked on the link. My question still stands, why are they an authority on bioethics? Just because they are a doctors does not mean they are bioethicists.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Um…I’m not sure you noticed by 1flesh.org is not catholics.org. It’s not even a catholic website.[/quote]
And I’m sure you weren’t liked to that site from some catholic site or catholic blog
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Please let’s see those links.[/quote]
I posted a bunch in the past, here are a couple. Feel free to use Google Scholar
http://www.planetwire.org/files.fcgi/7689_Ab_Only_Ed_Kohler_.pdf
Teaching about contraception was not associated with increased risk of adolescent
sexual activity or STD. Adolescents who received comprehensive sex education had a lower risk of
pregnancy than adolescents who received abstinence-only or no sex education. �??�??�??�??�??�?�© 2008 Society for
Adolescent Medicine. All rights reserved.
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/108729102320231144
Comprehensive sex education, which emphasizes the benefits of abstinence while also teaching about contraception and disease-prevention methods, has been proven to reduce rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection.
The following organizations support Comprehensive sex education:
The American Psychological Association,[16] the American Medical Association,[17] the National Association of School Psychologists,[18] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[19] the American Public Health Association,[20] the Society for Adolescent Medicine[21] and the American College Health Association
[/quote]
I see the confusion. You were commenting on something that I am not aware of I was commenting on these two statements:
[quote]The use of contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies.
Fewer unwanted pregnancies means fewer abortions. [/quote]
Contraception does not prevent unwanted pregnancy, it lowers it in the short term. But in the long term that is untrue. Those rates go up overtime.
This is somewhat obviously from the out-of-wedlock rates dramatically increasing. Not surprisingly 50% of abortions are done on those in the age range with the highest out of wedlock rate.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/wedlock.pdf[/quote]
Is that because of contraception or just degrading family values and morals? Cultural sexual promiscuity has been around a lot longer than relatively effective contraception.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Not even pro-lifers agree contraception = abortion
[/quote]
Congratulations, truth isn’t decided by democratic vote.
Some contraception is abortifacient…this is a medical fact.[/quote]
Did you click on the link I provided?
The American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists are undecided on this issue. They are doctors with advanced degrees.[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure their parents are proud of them. What makes them the authority on the position of pro-lifers?[/quote]
So you didn’t click on the link I provided?
An association of pro-life doctors are not considered an authority on this issue to you? WOW.
[/quote]
Further, after reading it for the third term and checking the sources. If you read the end, the reason why they don’t agree on it is because they don’t agree when life begins.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Is that because of contraception or just degrading family values and morals? Cultural sexual promiscuity has been around a lot longer than relatively effective contraception.[/quote]
That’s like the asking if the axe or if the edge of the blade cut the tree. Answer, both. Though I would argue that the use of artificial contraception allowed people to believe that out-of-wedlock pregnancies wouldn’t happen so removed a natural barrier to promiscuity.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Contraception does not prevent unwanted pregnancy, it lowers it in the short term. But in the long term that is untrue. Those rates go up overtime. [/quote]
It seems that you don’t even have a basic understanding of human sexuality.
Tell me how do you think people carry on a sexual relationship without constantly having abortions Chris? How do you think that happens?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This is somewhat obviously from the out-of-wedlock rates dramatically increasing. Not surprisingly 50% of abortions are done on those in the age range with the highest out of wedlock rate.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/wedlock.pdf[/quote]
Please quote what conclusion you’re referring to stating contraception only lowers unwanted pregnancies short term?
“Americans are unique primarily because of relatively low levels of contraceptive use and very high rates of adolescent childbearing, compared with other industrialized democracies.”
“Despite increases in the proportion of unmarried sexually active persons who use contraception, data indicate that married women are more regular users of contraception than unmarried women.”
“Couples who do not use any method of contraception contribute disproportionately to the incidence of unintended pregnancy”
“Among all unmarried American women aged 15-44, less than one in ten are sexually active, do not want to become pregnant, and yet do not use contraception. However, these women account for about half of all unintended pregnancies in the United States. The remaining women who had unintended pregnancies were using contraception but experienced the failure of their method, or were not using their method correctly or consistently.”
“Contraceptives are not used or are inadequately used for a variety of reasons, including a lack of motivation and concern over side effects; however, the cost and accessibility of services constitute an important barrier to the use of effective methods of contraception.”
“Most nonmarital births are unintended, as parents are unable to obtain, do not choose, or fail to use effective contraception on a regular basis.”
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Contraception does not prevent unwanted pregnancy, it lowers it in the short term. But in the long term that is untrue. Those rates go up overtime. [/quote]
It seems that you don’t even have a basic understanding of human sexuality.[/quote]
Ok… Please explain.
[quote]
Tell me how do you think people carry on a sexual relationship without constantly having abortions Chris? How do you think that happens?[/quote]
Have babies.
Look, they just have compassion for women.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
There is nothing I am confused about.
[/quote]
We are going to have to agree to disagree on that
[quote]My entire position on the respect of life can be summed up in five simple to understand words; From conception to natural death. The pro-death camp can never be summed up nearly as succinctly nor as honestly. Do you ever wonder why that is?
Um, okay. Care to answer the question?