Cortes, we know that our points will get ignored because pro-DEATH posters have no response and nothing to stand on. I do need to say that you have been spectacular recently! I am glad to have a man of your caliber on the side of LIFE with me. Also wanted to wish you a Happy Fathers Day! Your child is here in this world, you just haven’t met him yet! ; )
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
How do you classify a developed brain?
[/quote]
And, if I may:
Watch this get ignored. [/quote] edited slightly for clarification
ephrem never even addressed the point, yet he still replied. shrug
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
How do you classify a developed brain?
[/quote]
And, if I may:
Watch this get ignored. [/quote]
I have kneedragger on ignore, no surprises there.
But the question is stupid. Honestly, if you don’t know what it means to have a sufficiently developed brain as an indication of being human then I’d suggest you try lobotomy and see for yourself.
[in respons to kneedragger btw, not directed at you personally Cortes][/quote]
I think a lot of guys on this thread would have different opinions if they had sex with a girl in highschool who was on birth control but the birth control failed and she became pregnant, like happened to me. She got an abortion and I was okay with it.
[quote]Brian14 wrote:
I think a lot of guys on this thread would have different opinions if they had sex with a girl in highschool who was on birth control but the birth control failed and she became pregnant, like happened to me. She got an abortion and I was okay with it. [/quote]
I’d consider it the murder of my child and it would take a lot of time and effort to be able to forgive her and the people who did the operation if I ever could.
But the question is stupid. Honestly, if you don’t know what it means to have a sufficiently developed brain as an indication of being human then I’d suggest you try lobotomy and see for yourself.
[in respons to kneedragger btw, not directed at you personally Cortes][/quote]
Should we kill people with severe forms of smooth brain? Should we kill those with just a brain stem? Should we kill the mentally challenged? If so, what criteria are there to decide who is and isn’t mentally challenged enough to kill? Brain scans? Mental acuity tests?[/quote]
If a person is braindead and this person would not survive without medical apparatus, I’d be in favor of a natural death.
But these people have already been born. These questions don’t support your position as they do not pertain to abortion.[/quote]
So if we grant these people personhood and the rights associated with it, why don’t we apply those same principles to a zygote or fetus in the first trimester?[/quote]
They are granted nothing. They’ve survived their disability. Your eagerness to bestow the same rights to a zygote as you would an adult is mindboggling.
I’m trying to understand your viewpoint logically, and when I read your post it looks like you’re saying zygotes aren’t people just because.
Also, it seems like you’ve said zygotes aren’t people because they lack brain development. Then you say that these other people are persons despite their lack of brain development. Can you see why I’m confused by your position? I’m trying to see it your way and from my understanding it just doesn’t make sense to me and boggles my mind.
Are you saying a zygote isn’t a person with rights until they reach a certain level of brain development within the womb?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I’m trying to understand your viewpoint logically, and when I read your post it looks like you’re saying zygotes aren’t people just because.
Also, it seems like you’ve said zygotes aren’t people because they lack brain development. Then you say that these other people are persons despite their lack of brain development. Can you see why I’m confused by your position? I’m trying to see it your way and from my understanding it just doesn’t make sense to me and boggles my mind.
Are you saying a zygote isn’t a person with rights until they reach a certain level of brain development within the womb?[/quote]
I don’t think you’re confused at all Fletch, but your last sentence is one I agree with.
[quote]ephrem wrote:<< I don’t think you’re confused at all Fletch, but your last sentence is one I agree with.[/quote]Try n explain that to the judge about the spotted owl egg(or whatever) that you took out of a nest.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Any woman can abort her pregnancy within a certain time frame. The potential of a fetus is obviously irrelevant to the law so it is irrelevant to this discussion.[/quote]
We’re talking about if the law is right or wrong. This argument is invalid because it is circular.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Cortes and Nards, how do you scientifically define a human? Assuming the theory of evolution is correct, what would you call the first known humans parents?[/quote]
[quote]Nards wrote:
“Why did you put the seed in? You wasted what was going to be a pretty good house!”
[/quote]
Aha! A solution. Don’t plant a seed! Wear a condom. You realize that this would virtually solve the problem . . . if all men except those hoping to procreate wore a condom every time they had sex.
Let me say this . . . all of you anti-abortion males . . . I hope that you are for education and accessible birth control for all.[/quote]
Why would we be for accessible artificial birth control?
[quote]Brian14 wrote:
I think a lot of guys on this thread would have different opinions if they had sex with a girl in highschool who was on birth control but the birth control failed and she became pregnant, like happened to me. She got an abortion and I was okay with it. [/quote]
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I’m trying to understand your viewpoint logically, and when I read your post it looks like you’re saying zygotes aren’t people just because.
Also, it seems like you’ve said zygotes aren’t people because they lack brain development. Then you say that these other people are persons despite their lack of brain development. Can you see why I’m confused by your position? I’m trying to see it your way and from my understanding it just doesn’t make sense to me and boggles my mind.
Are you saying a zygote isn’t a person with rights until they reach a certain level of brain development within the womb?[/quote]
I don’t think you’re confused at all Fletch, but your last sentence is one I agree with.[/quote]
“Why would we be for accessible artificial birth control?”
Because people will have sex regardless, and their will be people that do not want/cannot afford/cannot accept a child, not because it will kill them, or because they were raped, or because the fetus is showing signs of gross deformity, but because they are 15 or 16 years old. Taking away birth control is tantamount to increasing the rate of abortions by 50%.
Fletch,
“Also, it seems like you’ve said zygotes aren’t people because they lack brain development.”
That is not exactly true, a zygote doesn’t lack brain development, it lacks a brain. A zygote is a single celled organism that ceases to exist once it splits into the next two cells on its way to being a blastocyte. Zygotes aren’t people because they have no characteristics of people except for DNA.
KD,
“Cortes, we know that our points will get ignored because pro-DEATH posters have no response and nothing to stand on”
Actually I think all of your posts have been answered. The brain question is awesome, (see above) a zygote does not have one, yet you draw no distinction between a zygote and Albert Einstein, how does that logic work? I get that you were in a coma, nobody is saying that people that are post-womb, regardless of disabilities are any less important to their families and deserve any fewer rights than perfectly able bodied folks. You seem to think that by changing the discussion you can make this an issue of disabled adults, it is not, it is a matter of a woman’s ownership of her own body and reproductive rights… By the way I am not Pro-Death anymore than you would call yourself Anti-Free Will.
Because at a certain point a fetus becomes a viable human being, somewhere around 24-26 weeks or so, and can feel pain and can actually survive more than 50% of the time outside the womb.
[quote]Nards wrote:
“Why did you put the seed in? You wasted what was going to be a pretty good house!”
[/quote]
Aha! A solution. Don’t plant a seed! Wear a condom. You realize that this would virtually solve the problem . . . if all men except those hoping to procreate wore a condom every time they had sex.
Let me say this . . . all of you anti-abortion males . . . I hope that you are for education and accessible birth control for all.[/quote]
Absolutely.
I’ll mention again that I am actually for abortion…but not the attempt to clean up and make guilt-free what it is.
Much like I am for euthanasia…but don’t think we need to argue semantics and philosophy about “what is a human?” and all that just so at the end of the day we feel completely clean and free about it.