Thanks to the Veterans

Off Topic
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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
orion wrote:
BSC819 wrote:
orion wrote:
Dustin wrote:
and this one…

How dare you!

That is a mere Fr�??�??�?�¼hschwimmer whereas I have a Freischwimmer!

http://www.schwimmschule-fischer.at/Schwimmabzeichen/schwimmabzeichen.html

Why do you hate Austria?

I dont hate Austria, I just hate you and want to kick your face in.

You know how you know that you are wrong?

When all that you have left is an appeal to emotions and the urge to smash anything you disagree with.

He said it, you are a coward and you wouldn’t say this in real life, only on the net
He and his friends would stomp on your face till you don’t know no more

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA[/quote]

Which is neither here nor there as far as arguments go, it just makes him a violent idiot with poor impulse control.

Which would incidentally make him a very bad soldier.

But if he must make my argument for me by being a real life exaggerated caricature of an ugly American, he should definitely knock himself out.

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The best of the best of the best… Sir!

143

[quote]orion wrote:
BSC819 wrote:
orion wrote:
Dustin wrote:
and this one…

How dare you!

That is a mere Fr�??�?�¼hschwimmer whereas I have a Freischwimmer!

http://www.schwimmschule-fischer.at/Schwimmabzeichen/schwimmabzeichen.html

Why do you hate Austria?

I dont hate Austria, I just hate you and want to kick your face in.

You know how you know that you are wrong?

When all that you have left is an appeal to emotions and the urge to smash anything you disagree with.

[/quote]

Well,you did needlessly hijack his thread because of something you disagreed with…and turned it into an argument that is neither here or there in regards to Veteran’s day. Regardless of his hyper-patriotic original statement…I didn’t see it as anything that was treading on you.

There are numerous American’s who basically hate blind patriotism as much as you…YET still can see soldiers as people and respect the fact that they sacrifice themselves for serving their country.

Maybe you can’t really relate to this as you sit at your computer in Austria. You can read and soak up all information you want on “everything American”…but some things you will always be out of touch with that relate to us.

144

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
There are numerous American’s who basically hate blind patriotism as much as you…YET still can see soldiers as people and respect the fact that they sacrifice themselves for serving their country.[/quote]

Beautifully stated, BB.

145

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Well,you did needlessly hijack his thread because of something you disagreed with…and turned it into an argument that is neither here or there in regards to Veteran’s day. Regardless of his hyper-patriotic original statement…I didn’t see it as anything that was treading on you.

There are numerous American’s who basically hate blind patriotism as much as you…YET still can see soldiers as people and respect the fact that they sacrifice themselves for serving their country.

Maybe you can’t really relate to this as you sit at your computer in Austria. You can read and soak up all information you want on “everything American”…but some things you will always be out of touch with that relate to us. [/quote]

Well said.
The thread is made to give thanks to specific people on a day that was made to remember them.
An argument for or against anything should have its own thread.

The same would be true if anyone started a thread with their views about all of this, and someone just came into the debate saying “just wanted to say thanks to all of the uniformed soldiers…”.

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As a veteran I have to say I agree with the points Dustin has made. He’s talking about be using your brain and growing beyond believing at times simplistic BS for not always altruistic motives. That said, I honor all the current and past military members who have answered the call and especially those who’ve paid with their lives when our country asked them to.

D

Edit: Went back and read the initial post by the OP and whew, I guess that view applies if you live in a world of The Hall Of Justice and The Legion Of Doom with nothing in between. When I was in due to my clearance I used to be able to read the sitreps which go out when any admin or official action is taken. I read many reports of sexual abuse of children, rape, murder, theft, and on and on carried out by US Service members. My point being is people or people good and bad whether civilians or service types and it is foolish to act like we have to bow down and kiss the ass of anyone who served. What about the six year E-2 who drank himself thru six years of active duty and never came within six hundred thousand miles of combat or an honorable act? Just get real and grow up a little bit. That’s all.

147

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Well,you did needlessly hijack his thread because of something you disagreed with…and turned it into an argument that is neither here or there in regards to Veteran’s day. Regardless of his hyper-patriotic original statement…I didn’t see it as anything that was treading on you.

There are numerous American’s who basically hate blind patriotism as much as you…YET still can see soldiers as people and respect the fact that they sacrifice themselves for serving their country.

Maybe you can’t really relate to this as you sit at your computer in Austria. You can read and soak up all information you want on “everything American”…but some things you will always be out of touch with that relate to us. [/quote]

Usually try to avoid this type thread cause they always attrach the US haters and gives them a forum to spew their crap. Saw this though and had to say well put and well stated, sir.

148

[quote]BSC819 wrote:
I just wanted to make a post thanking the veterans for protecting us and our freedooms to give us the ability to live in the greatest country in the world. I read the next paragraph in an article and it sums up how I feel.

You serve and fight for the greatest Nation in the history of civilization. There has never been a grievous wrong that good Americans have not sought to rectify. There has never been a just cause on which America has turned her back for long. You, our soldiers, have been and continue to be, the greatest force for freedom and human rights ever gathered. You have raised our flag around the world, not for domination, but to bring greater liberty and a better way of life. You are the reason America remains a beacon of hope to the entire world.

You seek neither glory nor riches, nor even fame. You are our best, our brightest, our bravest. Please always know that even when we don’t show it, we love you. We appreciate you. We thank you. And we will never forget you or forsake you.
[/quote]

Well although it is all well and good showing respect and honour to the soldiers of your country, this post is so romanticised that it belongs in a kid’s story book. It comes from fantasy land.
It’s not the respect and memory of the soldiers that people are having problem with. Every country should show pride in their military.

But, despite what you may think, America is definitely NOT the greatest nation in the history of civilisation.

“There has never been a grievous wrong that good Americans have not sought to rectify” is almost laughable. I think the general international consensus at times is: AMERICA MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS.

“You, our soldiers, have been and continue to be, the greatest force for freedom and human rights ever gathered.” Again, respect for the soldiers of your country is an important thing, but the American army is far from the greatest force for freedom and human rights ever seen.

And I’m sorry but America is far from “a beacon of hope to the entire world”. I’m sure you’ll find that the international opinion of America is actually quite low.

Please understand that I am not attacking the soldiers themselves. I do have connections with the military and always think it is important to show respect. These people are the arms of a country and carry out the countries wishes whether they agree with them or not.

149

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
As a veteran I have to say I agree with the points Dustin has made. He’s talking about be using your brain and growing beyond believing at times simplistic BS for not always altruistic motives. That said, I honor all the current and past military members who have answered the call and especially those who’ve paid with their lives when our country asked them to.

D

Edit: Went back and read the initial post by the OP and whew, I guess that view applies if you live in a world of The Hall Of Justice and The Legion Of Doom with nothing in between. When I was in due to my clearance I used to be able to read the sitreps which go out when any admin or official action is taken. I read many reports of sexual abuse of children, rape, murder, theft, and on and on carried out by US Service members. My point being is people or people good and bad whether civilians or service types and it is foolish to act like we have to bow down and kiss the ass of anyone who served. What about the six year E-2 who drank himself thru six years of active duty and never came within six hundred thousand miles of combat or an honorable act? Just get real and grow up a little bit. That’s all.

[/quote]

The most intelligent post seen in this thread so far. x1000

150

[quote]orion wrote:

The problem is not religion, the problem is us.

[/quote]

You’re going to blame the individual mind for all of this?! Who tells the individual mind what to think? Why do you form loyalties to government, family, siblings, sports teams? who taught you those from the day you were born?

Who’s giving you your news and views of other nations, other ethnicities, the opposite gender? ARE THOSE YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS THAT WERE CONSTRUCTED IN YOUR OWN MIND? You were taught all of it through gasp THE MAJOR INSTITUTIONS THAT SUPPORT INEQUALITY AND SOCIAL STRATIFICATION

RELIGION, GOVERNMENT, ECONOMY, EDUCATION, THE MILITARY have molded us from infancy to BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE. good or bad, racism (schools, religion, television), blind loyaly (schools, religion), conformity (schools, religion), accepting your low position for promise of eternal bliss (religion)

151

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
As a veteran I have to say I agree with the points Dustin has made. He’s talking about be using your brain and growing beyond believing at times simplistic BS for not always altruistic motives. That said, I honor all the current and past military members who have answered the call and especially those who’ve paid with their lives when our country asked them to.

D

Edit: Went back and read the initial post by the OP and whew, I guess that view applies if you live in a world of The Hall Of Justice and The Legion Of Doom with nothing in between. When I was in due to my clearance I used to be able to read the sitreps which go out when any admin or official action is taken. I read many reports of sexual abuse of children, rape, murder, theft, and on and on carried out by US Service members. My point being is people or people good and bad whether civilians or service types and it is foolish to act like we have to bow down and kiss the ass of anyone who served. What about the six year E-2 who drank himself thru six years of active duty and never came within six hundred thousand miles of combat or an honorable act? Just get real and grow up a little bit. That’s all.

[/quote]

I think whatever your personal views are we can all agree the the government making heroes out of the military certainly furthers its own ends by:
1.) Gets people to join by saying they’ll be heroes.
2.) solidifies the country’s patriotism and sense of superiority

152

[quote]spyoptic wrote:
orion wrote:

You’re going to blame the individual mind for all of this?! Who tells the individual mind what to think? Why do you form loyalties to government, family, siblings, sports teams? who taught you those from the day you were born?

Who’s giving you your news and views of other nations, other ethnicities, the opposite gender? ARE THOSE YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS THAT WERE CONSTRUCTED IN YOUR OWN MIND? You were taught all of it through gasp THE MAJOR INSTITUTIONS THAT SUPPORT INEQUALITY AND SOCIAL STRATIFICATION

RELIGION, GOVERNMENT, ECONOMY, EDUCATION, THE MILITARY have molded us from infancy to BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE. good or bad, racism (schools, religion, television), blind loyaly (schools, religion), conformity (schools, religion), accepting your low position for promise of eternal bliss (religion)

[/quote]

we created all this. It’s the fault of our weakness if we search guru to give us answers. There is a need for answers, that’s why authorities have power over our mind, because we want others to give us easy answers. We think :‘’ this guy has taught about it more than me, he spent time sorting it out so I should listen to him’'.

You have to face the problem of existence as the individual that you are

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
orion wrote:

You’re going to blame the individual mind for all of this?! Who tells the individual mind what to think? Why do you form loyalties to government, family, siblings, sports teams? who taught you those from the day you were born?

Who’s giving you your news and views of other nations, other ethnicities, the opposite gender? ARE THOSE YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS THAT WERE CONSTRUCTED IN YOUR OWN MIND? You were taught all of it through gasp THE MAJOR INSTITUTIONS THAT SUPPORT INEQUALITY AND SOCIAL STRATIFICATION

RELIGION, GOVERNMENT, ECONOMY, EDUCATION, THE MILITARY have molded us from infancy to BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE. good or bad, racism (schools, religion, television), blind loyaly (schools, religion), conformity (schools, religion), accepting your low position for promise of eternal bliss (religion)

we created all this. It’s the fault of our weakness if we search guru to give us answers. There is a need for answers, that’s why authorities have power over our mind, because we want others to give us easy answers. We think :‘’ this guy has taught about it more than me, he spent time sorting it out so I should listen to him’'.

You have to face the problem of existence as the individual that you are

[/quote]

It is NOT your fault things are this way. Genetics aside, our views and opinions are shaped by our environment. What did they teach us in school?

Elites use mass education to create privilege for themselves. The hidden or latent curriculum is central, with subordination at the core. Real education %u2013 growth of individual and civic power %u2013 systematically suppressed. Indoctrination, authoritarianism, interpersonal brutality, competition, stratification all central to modern education.

forcing students to recite the pledge of allegiance is a violation of its meaning and the idea of a free society,
the pledge was accompanied by a hands outstretched, Fascist salute. (changed in 1943 for obvious reasons.)

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
orion wrote:

You’re going to blame the individual mind for all of this?! Who tells the individual mind what to think? Why do you form loyalties to government, family, siblings, sports teams? who taught you those from the day you were born?

Who’s giving you your news and views of other nations, other ethnicities, the opposite gender? ARE THOSE YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS THAT WERE CONSTRUCTED IN YOUR OWN MIND? You were taught all of it through gasp THE MAJOR INSTITUTIONS THAT SUPPORT INEQUALITY AND SOCIAL STRATIFICATION

RELIGION, GOVERNMENT, ECONOMY, EDUCATION, THE MILITARY have molded us from infancy to BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE. good or bad, racism (schools, religion, television), blind loyaly (schools, religion), conformity (schools, religion), accepting your low position for promise of eternal bliss (religion)

we created all this. It’s the fault of our weakness if we search guru to give us answers. There is a need for answers, that’s why authorities have power over our mind, because we want others to give us easy answers. We think :‘’ this guy has taught about it more than me, he spent time sorting it out so I should listen to him’'.

You have to face the problem of existence as the individual that you are

[/quote]

It is NOT your fault things are this way. Genetics aside, our views and opinions are shaped by our environment. What did they teach us in school?

Elites use mass education to create privilege for themselves. The hidden or latent curriculum is central, with subordination at the core. Real education - growth of individual and civic power - systematically suppressed. Indoctrination, authoritarianism, interpersonal brutality, competition, stratification all central to modern education.

forcing students to recite the pledge of allegiance is a violation of its meaning and the idea of a free society,
the pledge was accompanied by a hands outstretched, Fascist salute. (changed in 1943 for obvious reasons.)

156

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Grey Rainbow wrote:
…I think the general international consensus at times is: AMERICA MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS…

Right about now I kinda wish America would have done so from 1942 - 1945 during the Battle of Darwin and the New Guinea campaign.

If so the flag flying right now over the Sydney Opera House might not have looked like this:

[photo]25665[/photo]

but rather like this:

[photo]25666[/photo]

However, I know too many Aussies who don’t burn with the hatred of America like you do so I don’t mean that sincerely.

And your “general international consensus” is a myth and/or more accurately should be consigned to “general regional consensus.”
[/quote]

I don’t burn with a hated of America.

The point I’m getting at is that contrary to original post, America is not “the greatest Nation in the history of civilization”. It also does not have “the greatest force for freedom and human rights ever gathered”.

158

so hold on…

we each back our country’s views and policies and argue that others are wrong, even if we don’t know why.
we all view opposing viewpoints from foreigners as insulting and aggressive.
we all view foreigners as inferior to us.
we each have God on our side.

World at War round 3 coming right up.

edit: we’re not brainwashed at all!

159

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Grey Rainbow wrote:
…I think the general international consensus at times is: AMERICA MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS…

The problem with people who express these kind of sentiments is a lack of historical perspective. Ignorance breeds this. Ignorance of world history of the last 70 years. You have kids like this moron who sluffed their way some lousy school system and just don’t have the intellectual wherewithal to make valued judgments about this topic.

They don’t understand that the U.S.A. was sucked out of the isolationism of the 1930s and forced to defend the Australian continent, Europe, Asia, and Africa against the totalitarian regimes of the Axis Powers.

Then IMMEDIATELY upon cessation of those hostilities the Cold War was launched and the U.S. almost singlehandedly was forced to defend the tattered and ruined nations of the world from the jaws of the Bear. This war lasted from 1945 - 1991 and it was global in nature; in fact it was more global than WWII.

Along with the Cold War an intense international appetite for Middle Eastern oil was developed.

So what do we end up with 'long 'bout 2009? A world policeman who, funded by the hard work of its citizens, has provided a great deal of security for much of the world for decades who is now resented and told to “MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS.”

Tell you what…you play the “what if” game and pull the U.S. out of every corner of the globe and isolate it once again on the North American continent and…the world collapses. I mean it totally fucking implodes.

[/quote]

I also said “at times”. The US did play the central role in the “fight against the spread of communism”. This however is one sided. Many people of power in the Soviet Union sincerely believed in a role reversal senario.

Reviewing my statement, it does seem overly rash and I apoligise. But the point I was trying to emphasise was that America, despite what some of its citizens may think, is not “the greatest Nation in the history of civilization”. It also does not have “the greatest force for freedom and human rights ever gathered”. Both of these statements are far more arrogant than my crude; “mind your own fucking business”.

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[quote]spyoptic wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
orion wrote:

It is NOT your fault things are this way. Genetics aside, our views and opinions are shaped by our environment. What did they teach us in school?

Elites use mass education to create privilege for themselves. The hidden or latent curriculum is central, with subordination at the core. Real education - growth of individual and civic power - systematically suppressed. Indoctrination, authoritarianism, interpersonal brutality, competition, stratification all central to modern education.

forcing students to recite the pledge of allegiance is a violation of its meaning and the idea of a free society,
the pledge was accompanied by a hands outstretched, Fascist salute. (changed in 1943 for obvious reasons.)

[/quote]

I dont know what to reply to that in relation to what I was trying to say.

Dont think I am some kind of illuminated freak cultist follower but my vision of this stuff pretty much goes on with the vision of Jiddu Krishnamurti. I know you wont but if you want to hear something that will really change the way you live go rent a book by him.

I had already read a couple of things in philosophy and I rented a book of his conversation pretty much by randomness (my library was allowing to rent 50 books for 6 months for construction, I was just picking random books for the lulz) and I am happy I read that one