Thanks to the Veterans

JustinC · November 13, 2009, 3:08am

Regardless of your opinions on America’s recent wars, couldn’t you at least show a little respect for the soldiers who fought and died in World War II? If it wasn’t for them, the world would be a much more fucked up place.

postholedigger · November 13, 2009, 4:26am

No…that’s asking too much!

formidible · November 13, 2009, 5:28am

Thank you American Military for your continued defense of our freedoms. Little suprised that some of these europeans feel the need to disprespect on you. If it wasnt for our forefathers saving their asses from the Germans they probably wouldnt even be around to bash you. Food for thought.

spyoptic · November 13, 2009, 6:32am

[quote]formidible wrote:
Thank you American Military for your continued defense of our freedoms. Little suprised that some of these europeans feel the need to disprespect on you. If it wasnt for our forefathers saving their asses from the Germans they probably wouldnt even be around to bash you. Food for thought.[/quote]

whatever. Its fucking pointless. They hate us because their government and news tell them so. They hear their parents and grandparents putting down anybody or any nation that’s not like them, and so the same ignorant thoughts are passed down to a new generation.

That goes for Americans too. You hate Europeans and/or love to look down on them; see through the mountain of bullshit.

I’ve been completely ignorant all of my life - I still am, but I know its not the individual in Europe that hates - He is told and taught to hate and so he does.

Hang out with any European and chances are theyre down to earth and funny.

Big_Boss · November 13, 2009, 6:50am

[quote]spyoptic wrote:

Hang out with any European and chances are theyre down to earth and funny.[/quote]

Too bad Orion wasn’t as open-minded as you when it came to our troops. I understand the particulars of his argument in reference to OP’s statement…but he obviously doesn’t view our troops in any positive light.

He dehumanizes them just as our government does at times…which he criticizes for doing. They’re still fathers,mothers,daughters,sons,etc…and believe it or not,some are decent people.

With that said,people who are closely tied to soldiers are going to respond in the ways they have so far. I sat back and thought about this and really don’t blame either side for feeling the way they do…just as you pointed out.

Chalky09Aus · November 13, 2009, 6:51am

I think Bob Dylan sums the entire topic up best:

Come you masters of war
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just don’t want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
While the death count gets higher
Then you hide in your mansion
While the young people’s blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You’ve thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain’t worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I’m young
You might say I’m unlearned
But there’s one thing I know
Though I’m younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death’ll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I’ll stand o’er your grave
'Til I’m sure that you’re dead

Orion pretty much nailed it completely on the first page. Even if he could be a little more tactful

orion · November 13, 2009, 9:03am

[quote]spyoptic wrote:
orion wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
Whoa… I thanked Orion for his first response.

But the logic was flawed because Religion has been and is the BIGGEST sourse of unequality and stratification humans know.

I used to think that but now I dont and here is why.

Once we were all catholic.

Then there were protestants and we had to kill each other over that.

Then, religion was not that important anymore and we invented nationalism and killed ourselves over that.

After that we invented socialism in all its forms and killed ourselves over that.

Fortunately it all cools down after some time. Religion got its teeth pulled, nationalism is pretty passe in Europe and socialism devolved into social democracy and is already breaking down because it is killing the host.

Dont know what collectivist mass delusion will be next but I am pretty sure that there will be blood.

The problem is not religion, the problem is us.

I said religion was the biggest form, not the only form.

Thse things you listed created one thing in common - inequality. If we broke down all of these institutions - Government, social classes, religions, corporations, mass media, school systems and formed them to create equality for all races, ages and gender for everyone on Earth, what war could possibly start?

Who benefits from racial inequality, wars and low-wage slaves? The Billionaires and their offspring that run their countries through all those institutions listed above.

Unfortunately all of these things support inequality and class stratification; so they won’t go away as long as those that run all of them are at the top. The Elites in the U.S are getting richer and the middle class is merging with the lower class. It’s almost as if we’re starting to resemble one large population of slaves so the few can sit on their asses and enjoy all of lifes pleasures.

[/quote]

People are not equal and they never will be.

Any attempt to create any other form of equality than equality before the law just leads to some sort of tyranny.

And I do know what a slave is, and it pretty much makes the concept of a wage slave impossible.

orion · November 13, 2009, 9:05am

[quote]spyoptic wrote:
formidible wrote:
Thank you American Military for your continued defense of our freedoms. Little suprised that some of these europeans feel the need to disprespect on you. If it wasnt for our forefathers saving their asses from the Germans they probably wouldnt even be around to bash you. Food for thought.

whatever. Its fucking pointless. They hate us because their government and news tell them so. They hear their parents and grandparents putting down anybody or any nation that’s not like them, and so the same ignorant thoughts are passed down to a new generation.
[/quote]

That is actually entirely wrong but whatever.

Neither our governments, nor our media, nor our parents…

And you are confusing America with its government and military.

On purpose?

orion · November 13, 2009, 9:10am

[quote]pushharder wrote:
FWIW, of all the folks I’ve met in person and online from this website over the past six years I can think of no person more likely to proverbially run from my side when the proverbial shit hit the fan than the coward from Austria, Onion. It’s just a gut feeling and maybe I’m wrong but my best bet is his yellow streak is fairly thick. [/quote]

Well I have the gut feeling that you dress up goats like barbie dolls and do unspeakable things to them while wearing rubber boots full of vasoline.

anon50325502 · November 13, 2009, 1:44pm

[quote]Dustin wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Dustin wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:

A. What corporation do has nothing to do with the military or the job soldiers have to do.

If you understand the ties between the military industrial complex and the government, you would not be saying this. You need to understand how a corporatocracy works.

B. People that have the ability to help others have the responsibility to do so. I know for a fact the people of Iraq are glad our troops are there. At least they can try and build a better society without being gassed or shot by Saddam or some other nut job.

Well, we aren’t over there to help them. But even if we were, you don’t start the process by bombing the shit out of their country.

C. You missed the point, those medals are given for things like honor, bravery, and going above the line of duty at great personal risk. Read a Medal of Honor citation and tell me that medal is meaningless especially to anyone that survived because of the heroics displayed by the recipient of said medal.

On the contrary, I know what those medals are for. I can assure you I have signed more citations and awards than you have.

A. I really don’t care what a corporatocracy is or how it works. It still doesn’t effect how a soldier conducts himself in a combat zone. If corporations take advantage of the situation that is entirely different topic and debate.

B. We are there to help them and how exactly would you go about not bombing the enemy?

C. Really how many Medal of Honor, Bronze Star, Silver Star, or even Purple Heart citations have you signed? Secondly you should have read some of those citation you signed because you obviously have no idea what the meaning behind them are. A Medal of Honor isn’t exactly the same thing as a smiley face your Kindergarten teacher put on your report card.

You should know how a Corporatocracy works and how the military is used such an economic system. That way you won’t make the false assumption that we are in Iraq to help people.

Actually, I have signed several Bronze Star citations.[/quote]

Soldiers and Marines do not fight in Iraq or Afghanistan to make Corporations money. Does it happen because politicians and corporations take advantage of the situation? Sure, but that is not why we do it.

That’s quite an honor to sign a Bronze Star citation, When you handed it over to your soldier did you say," Here you go son, he’s your shinny star for killing all those innocent kids, you should be so proud."

You of all people should understand the meaning behind these medals and what it takes to earn them more so then most.

markiss842 · November 13, 2009, 2:34pm

Wow… some of y’all are downright fuckin’ nasty. On a post that is titled Thanks to the Veterans, and on Veterans Day no less, you sit here and bash the people that the day is meant to celebrate. I fight for my country and its freedoms including freedom of speech… but some of you need to learn something called respect. Or discipline. Or how to discriminate between what is acceptable and what isn’t.

Any of you ungrateful, anti-military, anti-American fucks out there… enjoy your freedom and know that you are too big of a pussy to ever stand up and fight for that very freedom. It’s easy to talk big when you sit in front of your expensive computer and a secure internet connection without the fear of being shot or blown up or exposed to some toxic gas that prevents you from ever having children.

You have no clue what the word sacrifice means. You have no clue what these men and women are doing for you every day. And, yes, YOU!! We fight for YOU!! So that you can enjoy everything that we cannot. Because we exponentially enable the American people to enjoy the liberties and freedoms that this country was founded on.

So next time you are going to criticize the military, first, have some facts instead of hearsay and opinionated ramblings. Second, can it for another day and for one small second in your life… have some respect. God Bless America!! Thank you Veterans!! You are all fine Americans. (Except that fucker who hates following orders and is in the military… you’re a fuck up)

NvrTooLate · November 13, 2009, 2:54pm

[quote]orion wrote:
Propaganda much?
[/quote]

This is the best example of irony. Go ahead make all the anti-military statements you want. (I’m serious) There are many like those in my former unit that have paid for it in blood.

NvrTooLate · November 13, 2009, 3:00pm

[quote]orion wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
I thanks USA soldier for stealing ressource and killing people in a foreign country so that the rich can get even richer.

I would also like to thank everyone of you who think that killing somebody is wrong but when you do it in a uniform with trumpets in the back and the assentiment of your country it’s right.

Just imagine someone came up to them and told them this:

Dude, we both know killing and stealing is wrong but I have a piece of magic cloth that makes it all ok.

No really, as long as you wear it and do as I say you are not responsible for even your worst actions .

Everyone would immediately think that person was insane.

And yet,that really is the whole story.

Oh, and when they have been really good at that they get shiny metal objects they can pin on their heroic bosom because we all know that chicks dig shiny things.

[/quote]

I have 3 rows and proud of it.

CDQAR24 · November 13, 2009, 3:09pm

[quote]orion wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
silverblood wrote:
Don’t worry about the trolls. They only talk trash because they can hide behind the web. It’s obvious that they would not fight for their country or family. They can only talk the way they do because someone died for their freedom and rights.
I’m a vet and give a fuck less that cowards try to judge me. Anything I have done I live with each day and night.
So talk your trash because that’s all you’re good for. Just talk.

I COMPLETELY CONCUR SIR! COULDN’T HAVE BEEN SAID ANY BETTER!

Orion, whether trolling or not, you could show some of that respect you elude to in your ‘about me’ quote and STFU.

As a former Marine Sergeant I didn’t always agree with my orders, I simply followed them the same way my troops followed me. That’s what we do. Just ask Teddy R. While I agree with several of your points (keep the Christianity out of this, as Chiristians have demonstrated a blood-lust for hundreds of years: Spanish Inquisition anyone, The Crusades, etc.) and I never appreciated feeling like the EGA on my chest was really a ‘world police badge’, NONE of that matters because discipline is key within the military and that means following your orders. Nothing more, nothing less.

So YES those who have fallen, served or still actively serve deserve our (Americans) respect. BTW, I’ve been to too many other countries for you to argue about our ‘freedoms’ with me. If you have no respect for those who serve in your own country, fine, I’m sure they care. Leave our opinions to us and feel free to keep yours to yourself. An old saying comes to mind: If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything.

First in what countries have you been? If I compare Austria to Somalia and Cambodia we are doing fine too.[quote]

Since you asked: Somalia, Singapore, British Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, Okinawa, Guam- I know its an American province, but still, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Kuwait, and Australia. To name a few.

[quote]Then, the “we just follow orders” approach does not really fly. I am aware that soldiers do that and that that is how it should be, a politically active military would be worse in most cases.[quote]

Whether you think it flies or not is irrelevant, if you were actually aware as you claim. For the record, I’m not a soldier. I’m a former Marine. If you’re unaware of the difference, I suggest you do some research on the Battle of Belleau Wood. That one, in particular, might hit a little close to your home.

[quote]But, you chose to join an army that has not “defended Americas freedom” for over 60 years now and if you join an organization that is used to spread an aggressive imperialist/mercantlist agenda you are responsible for that decision.[quote]

See above.

Of course you are completely free to do that, but to expect respect?

Why?[quote]

And for your last statement…I don’t “expect” respect. I EARNED it. Like my forefathers, and my brothers and sisters before me. By sacrificing a portion of my life for something greater than myself. By serving others. And more importantly, by standing up for something I believe in.

What have you done?

[/quote]

NvrTooLate · November 13, 2009, 3:12pm

[quote]Dustin wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
orion wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
BSC819 wrote:
orion wrote:
Deadsion wrote:

I’ll be patient with you because Marines go through some intense indoctrination. It will take some work to de-program you.[/quote]

Really? Did you go to USMC boot camp? Didn’t know you were such an authority on how much indoctrination I’ve been through.

orion · November 13, 2009, 4:29pm

[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
orion wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
silverblood wrote:
Don’t worry about the trolls. They only talk trash because they can hide behind the web. It’s obvious that they would not fight for their country or family. They can only talk the way they do because someone died for their freedom and rights.
I’m a vet and give a fuck less that cowards try to judge me. Anything I have done I live with each day and night.
So talk your trash because that’s all you’re good for. Just talk.

I COMPLETELY CONCUR SIR! COULDN’T HAVE BEEN SAID ANY BETTER!

Orion, whether trolling or not, you could show some of that respect you elude to in your ‘about me’ quote and STFU.

As a former Marine Sergeant I didn’t always agree with my orders, I simply followed them the same way my troops followed me. That’s what we do. Just ask Teddy R. While I agree with several of your points (keep the Christianity out of this, as Chiristians have demonstrated a blood-lust for hundreds of years: Spanish Inquisition anyone, The Crusades, etc.) and I never appreciated feeling like the EGA on my chest was really a ‘world police badge’, NONE of that matters because discipline is key within the military and that means following your orders. Nothing more, nothing less.

So YES those who have fallen, served or still actively serve deserve our (Americans) respect. BTW, I’ve been to too many other countries for you to argue about our ‘freedoms’ with me. If you have no respect for those who serve in your own country, fine, I’m sure they care. Leave our opinions to us and feel free to keep yours to yourself. An old saying comes to mind: If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything.

First in what countries have you been? If I compare Austria to Somalia and Cambodia we are doing fine too.

Since you asked: Somalia, Singapore, British Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, Okinawa, Guam- I know its an American province, but still, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Kuwait, and Australia. To name a few.

Then, the “we just follow orders” approach does not really fly. I am aware that soldiers do that and that that is how it should be, a politically active military would be worse in most cases.

Whether you think it flies or not is irrelevant, if you were actually aware as you claim. For the record, I’m not a soldier. I’m a former Marine. If you’re unaware of the difference, I suggest you do some research on the Battle of Belleau Wood. That one, in particular, might hit a little close to your home.

But, you chose to join an army that has not “defended Americas freedom” for over 60 years now and if you join an organization that is used to spread an aggressive imperialist/mercantlist agenda you are responsible for that decision.

See above.

Of course you are completely free to do that, but to expect respect?

Why?

And for your last statement…I don’t “expect” respect. I EARNED it. Like my forefathers, and my brothers and sisters before me. By sacrificing a portion of my life for something greater than myself. By serving others. And more importantly, by standing up for something I believe in.[/quote]

What have you done?

The Waffen SS did sacrifice for “something greater than themselves”.

Some of them significantly more than you.

Do they deserve respect?

It seems to me that something greater than yourself fulfills two functions:

A) You avoid responsibility for your own actions and

B) You do not have to make to much decisions because “something bigger than yourself” is making them for you.

In real life men who are by no means bigger than you control you using slogans like serving bigger than yourself, matter what “that” is.

BTW the whole premise of my posts is that the US military is not that “big” to with.

orion · November 13, 2009, 4:35pm

[quote]markiss842 wrote:
Wow… some of y’all are downright fuckin’ nasty. On a post that is titled Thanks to the Veterans, and on Veterans Day no less, you sit here and bash the people that the day is meant to celebrate. I fight for my country and its freedoms including freedom of speech… but some of you need to learn something called respect. Or discipline. Or how to discriminate between what is acceptable and what isn’t.

Any of you ungrateful, anti-military, anti-American fucks out there… enjoy your freedom and know that you are too big of a pussy to ever stand up and fight for that very freedom. It’s easy to talk big when you sit in front of your expensive computer and a secure internet connection without the fear of being shot or blown up or exposed to some toxic gas that prevents you from ever having children.

You have no clue what the word sacrifice means. You have no clue what these men and women are doing for you every day. And, yes, YOU!! We fight for YOU!! So that you can enjoy everything that we cannot. Because we exponentially enable the American people to enjoy the liberties and freedoms that this country was founded on.

So next time you are going to criticize the military, first, have some facts instead of hearsay and opinionated ramblings. Second, can it for another day and for one small second in your life… have some respect. God Bless America!! Thank you Veterans!! You are all fine Americans. (Except that fucker who hates following orders and is in the military… you’re a fuck up)[/quote]

Excuse me but I was shouldering the white mens burden, bringing the truth, the light and the way to you savages.

That might not be to your liking but that only shows how superior my way of live really is.

You might recognize that approach but you might also see that I refrained from bombing your country and killing your family so there.

PS: Does your post count for an attempt of a reasonable lucid argument where you come from?

Boy, you need a gun to convince other people.

CDQAR24 · November 13, 2009, 5:21pm

[quote]orion wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
orion wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
silverblood wrote:
Don’t worry about the trolls. They only talk trash because they can hide behind the web. It’s obvious that they would not fight for their country or family. They can only talk the way they do because someone died for their freedom and rights.
I’m a vet and give a fuck less that cowards try to judge me. Anything I have done I live with each day and night.
So talk your trash because that’s all you’re good for. Just talk.