There are far better ways to go about making an argument. Veterans day is probably not the best day to make a case for anti-state/anti-war/anti-military. Do you honestly believe that anyone who wasn’t already aligned with your beliefs thought to themselves, ‘Yeah, you know he’s right, the U.S. military relies on oppression at home and suppression/occupation abroad (not my quote…R.D. Lang).’
Additionally, using an attack-dog style of debate only engenders emotional responses…and rightfully so…these are not the people to take this fight up with, thus, they’ll take your comments personally. This is not much different than the people who spit on and protested against the Vietnam vets…most were drafted for fucksake!
They are not policy makers who forcefully send humans to fight other humans for whatever fucking reason they deem necessary. They are not the politicians who sign off on these decisions, write blank checks and then make absolutely sure they and their family members NEVER fight the battles themselves.
The soldiers should be respected, it’s a very unglamorous life of modern-day chattel slavery; I’m surprised anyone signs up (at least with wage slavery, you can quit your job at will). If it wasn’t for the incentives (many times misrepresented or lied about to recruits), I doubt they would have the enlistment numbers they’ve been seeing lately…although a depression will help with that too.
The imperialist, military state that has progressively replaced the U.S. is the problem; they are the ones who are responsible for their policies. Take it up with them.
If you feel you must educate, then do so in a disinterested manner, so you don’t come off sounding like you have an ax to grind (not my concept…A.Nock).
Note: I’m not your typical dissenter. I made my attempts to enter the military when I was younger. Evidently, nine surgeries makes me a 4-F.
Why would anyone bash on people for supporting their soldiers its just showing respect to those who serve and have fallen in the line of duty some people are ridiculous.
Veterans’ day honors the soldier, Not the Department of Defense. You can disagree with the wars they’re involved in or the ends they serve but that’s not a soldier’s choice. That choice is made by politicians. Diss the politicians all you want but the soldier is the one who’s job it is to carry out the mission his country gives him and serves, fights and dies for his country. Anyone from any country who serves his or her country in that way deserves the respect of the country they serve.
Again, coming from a non-American. Fucking '09er but not American.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
orion wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
I thanks USA soldier for stealing ressource and killing people in a foreign country so that the rich can get even richer.
I would also like to thank everyone of you who think that killing somebody is wrong but when you do it in a uniform with trumpets in the back and the assentiment of your country it’s right.
Just imagine someone came up to them and told them this:
Dude, we both know killing and stealing is wrong but I have a piece of magic cloth that makes it all ok.
No really, as long as you wear it and do as I say you are not responsible for even your worst actions .
Everyone would immediately think that person was insane.
And yet,that really is the whole story.
Oh, and when they have been really good at that they get shiny metal objects they can pin on their heroic bosom because we all know that chicks dig shiny things.
[quote]kodiak82 wrote:
orion wrote:
Gmoore17 wrote:
This is really not the right day to have this discussion, no matter how you feel about it.
Maybe, but I can be a bit of a dick.
But I am not a dick in all of these threads and there are plenty.
If you look at the original post you will probably find out why I picked this specific one to shit all over it.
edit: Just read it again and yup, its fucking unbearable.
You Europeans, have no pride in your nations, cultures or warriors. So you attack ours. You are a dying people. In 50 years you will be a minority in your nations. In 100 years you will be extinct. Your leftist beliefs and Ideologies are hollow and false. You try to desecrate the memories and deeds of our warriors. Don’t try to project your self hate on to us.
[/quote]
Well first on most issues I am to your “right”. I am just consistent when it comes to state violence. I am somewhat magic cloth resistant.
Second, if the trend of our population continues in 100 years from now we will still be more densely populated than the US.
Third, you already pay more taxes in parts of the US, you have more social control through the state, more police and prosecutorial powers and are under stricter surveillance than in most European countries.
Remember the part about people never leaving the US except for destroying other countries and yet claiming that the US is all that plus a bag of chips?
[quote]silverblood wrote:
Don’t worry about the trolls. They only talk trash because they can hide behind the web. It’s obvious that they would not fight for their country or family. They can only talk the way they do because someone died for their freedom and rights.
I’m a vet and give a fuck less that cowards try to judge me. Anything I have done I live with each day and night.
So talk your trash because that’s all you’re good for. Just talk. [/quote]
I definitely would.
We could attack, I dunno, Sierra Leone?
So how is it you protected your countries freedom?
And why is it getting less and less free?
Could it be that domestic enemies create foreign ones to keep you busy?
You are so macho, you make for an excellent useful idiot.
They are not policy makers who forcefully send humans to fight other humans for whatever fucking reason they deem necessary. They are not the politicians who sign off on these decisions, write blank checks and then make absolutely sure they and their family members NEVER fight the battles themselves.
The soldiers should be respected, it’s a very unglamorous life of modern-day chattel slavery; I’m surprised anyone signs up (at least with wage slavery, you can quit your job at will). If it wasn’t for the incentives (many times misrepresented or lied about to recruits), I doubt they would have the enlistment numbers they’ve been seeing lately…although a depression will help with that too.
[/quote]
But there is no way soldiers could be used that way.
After all, they are the “best and the brightest”, from the “greatest country EVA!!!”, no less.
So who should I address if not “the best and the brightest”?
“The most noble”, willing to “sacrifice for their countries freedom”?
[quote]postholedigger wrote:
Veterans’ day honors the soldier, Not the Department of Defense. You can disagree with the wars they’re involved in or the ends they serve but that’s not a soldier’s choice. That choice is made by politicians. Diss the politicians all you want but the soldier is the one who’s job it is to carry out the mission his country gives him and serves, fights and dies for his country. Anyone from any country who serves his or her country in that way deserves the respect of the country they serve.
Again, coming from a non-American. Fucking '09er but not American.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
postholedigger wrote:
Veterans’ day honors the soldier, Not the Department of Defense. You can disagree with the wars they’re involved in or the ends they serve but that’s not a soldier’s choice. That choice is made by politicians. Diss the politicians all you want but the soldier is the one who’s job it is to carry out the mission his country gives him and serves, fights and dies for his country. Anyone from any country who serves his or her country in that way deserves the respect of the country they serve.
Again, coming from a non-American. Fucking '09er but not American.
This is it, right here. Case closed.
[/quote]
No its not because it supposes that state=country=government.
If you serve the state doing the governments bidding you can do great harm to your country.
In that case your country does not owe you anything, least of all respect and gratitude.
There are far better ways to go about making an argument. Veterans day is probably not the best day to make a case for anti-state/anti-war/anti-military. [/quote]
This, seriously. The last day of some kind of rememberance was 2 months ago (9/11). The next day of rememberance is President’s Day in February. Is one day in 5 months too long to keep anti-american views to yourself?
There are far better ways to go about making an argument. Veterans day is probably not the best day to make a case for anti-state/anti-war/anti-military.
This, seriously. The last day of some kind of rememberance was 2 months ago (9/11). The next day of rememberance is President’s Day in February. Is one day in 5 months too long to keep anti-american views to yourself?
[/quote]
I challenge you to find one anti-American post of mine.
Anti- government whorship, yes, anti-militarism, yes, anti-empire, yes, anti-American, no.
That is everything that America was NOT supposed to be.
There are far better ways to go about making an argument. Veterans day is probably not the best day to make a case for anti-state/anti-war/anti-military.
This, seriously. The last day of some kind of rememberance was 2 months ago (9/11). The next day of rememberance is President’s Day in February. Is one day in 5 months too long to keep anti-american views to yourself?
I challenge you to find one anti-American post of mine.
Anti- government whorship, yes, anti-militarism, yes, anti-empire, yes, anti-American, no.
That is everything that America was NOT supposed to be.
[/quote]
Why’d you include me? That’s what I said…anti-state/anti-war/anti-military. What I was suggesting is that you held off for 24 hours.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
Don’t worry about the trolls. They only talk trash because they can hide behind the web. It’s obvious that they would not fight for their country or family. They can only talk the way they do because someone died for their freedom and rights.
I’m a vet and give a fuck less that cowards try to judge me. Anything I have done I live with each day and night.
So talk your trash because that’s all you’re good for. Just talk. [/quote]
I COMPLETELY CONCUR SIR! COULDN’T HAVE BEEN SAID ANY BETTER!
Orion, whether trolling or not, you could show some of that respect you elude to in your ‘about me’ quote and STFU.
As a former Marine Sergeant I didn’t always agree with my orders, I simply followed them the same way my troops followed me. That’s what we do. Just ask Teddy R. While I agree with several of your points (keep the Christianity out of this, as Chiristians have demonstrated a blood-lust for hundreds of years: Spanish Inquisition anyone, The Crusades, etc.) and I never appreciated feeling like the EGA on my chest was really a ‘world police badge’, NONE of that matters because discipline is key within the military and that means following your orders. Nothing more, nothing less.
So YES those who have fallen, served or still actively serve deserve our (Americans) respect. BTW, I’ve been to too many other countries for you to argue about our ‘freedoms’ with me. If you have no respect for those who serve in your own country, fine, I’m sure they care. Leave our opinions to us and feel free to keep yours to yourself. An old saying comes to mind: If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything.
[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
silverblood wrote:
Don’t worry about the trolls. They only talk trash because they can hide behind the web. It’s obvious that they would not fight for their country or family. They can only talk the way they do because someone died for their freedom and rights.
I’m a vet and give a fuck less that cowards try to judge me. Anything I have done I live with each day and night.
So talk your trash because that’s all you’re good for. Just talk.
I COMPLETELY CONCUR SIR! COULDN’T HAVE BEEN SAID ANY BETTER![/quote]
There are far better ways to go about making an argument. Veterans day is probably not the best day to make a case for anti-state/anti-war/anti-military.
This, seriously. The last day of some kind of rememberance was 2 months ago (9/11). The next day of rememberance is President’s Day in February. Is one day in 5 months too long to keep anti-american views to yourself?
I challenge you to find one anti-American post of mine.
Anti- government whorship, yes, anti-militarism, yes, anti-empire, yes, anti-American, no.
That is everything that America was NOT supposed to be.
Why’d you include me? That’s what I said…anti-state/anti-war/anti-military. What I was suggesting is that you held off for 24 hours.[/quote]
But this is the day where we remember all those people that were butchered for lies, right?
There are far better ways to go about making an argument. Veterans day is probably not the best day to make a case for anti-state/anti-war/anti-military.
This, seriously. The last day of some kind of rememberance was 2 months ago (9/11). The next day of rememberance is President’s Day in February. Is one day in 5 months too long to keep anti-american views to yourself?
I challenge you to find one anti-American post of mine.
Anti- government whorship, yes, anti-militarism, yes, anti-empire, yes, anti-American, no.
That is everything that America was NOT supposed to be.
Why’d you include me? That’s what I said…anti-state/anti-war/anti-military. What I was suggesting is that you held off for 24 hours.[/quote]
I’m one of the few proud lefties on these forums, but even I am repulsed by your disrespect.
I agree with much that you say regarding needless US involvement around the world. But this thread was nothing more than a respectful remembrance and thanks to those who fought and died (and still continue to do so) for causes that they may not necessarily agree with, yet do their duty regardless.
Can you at least PLEASE respect the nature of this thread’s intent, if not those whom this thread is dedicated?
Please?
I’m one of the few proud lefties on these forums, but even I am repulsed by your disrespect.
I agree with much that you say regarding needless US involvement around the world. But this thread was nothing more than a respectful remembrance and thanks to those who fought and died (and still continue to do so) for causes that they may not necessarily agree with, yet do their duty regardless.
Can you at least PLEASE respect the nature of this thread’s intent, if not those whom this thread is dedicated?
Please? [/quote]
X2
(although I consider myself standing in the middle, and just leaning to the left)
