So I scored a 286 and ranges are 280-800. I have kaiser so my primary will probaly refer me and we’ll see where it goes, probaly no where. In my mind it explains alot though. Working out 6 months with only a 1 month layoff to recover from a bi-lateral hernia and I haven’t lost one pound and muscle gain has been minimal. Although my lift have went up and I’m low carbing.
My primary is pretty cool, straight out told him if I wanted steroids the border is 25 minutes away and what I was looking for was to fix my problem. Anyways we’ll see.
Ok so I was given a choice of transdermal or injection. I chose injection thinking I’d be able to just self inject but found out I have to go in once a week. No biggie but I wonder if maybe getting the gel may have been a better choice…
Anyways I went in and got my 1st 100mg shot today
What do you guys think about gels? Better than the shots or as far as quality both the same?
He has me retest in about 2 months (think this is because originaly he was going to have injections at 2 wks for my convenience) Nothing about e2, not sure if he just wants to see where I’m at before going on with continueing tx.
“Welcome to hell” as we say around here. Now comes the education…
Most guys I know of respond to the shots better, have more consistent T levels, and reduced T to E2 conversion. Unless the doc is charging an arm and leg for the weekly office visit, try to get 1/2 a shot twice a week if possible. (50mg X 2)
T-Cyp has a long half life, and your blood levels will even out (stop climbing) between day 40 and 50, so waiting 60 days before the next blood test means the doc isn’t a total loser. Now if in the next couple of weeks your nads hurt or start to shrink, it’s time to sit down with the doctor and discuss HCG. E2 is also a possible issue for you, but you never know. I convert easily and readily to E2, so I have to really be careful or my junk doesn’t work right. At least now I know what the fix for that problem is; adex.
BTW, read everything by KSman and Happydog to fill in the blanks.
You don’t technically have low testosterone according to the results on your blood tests. Your are just in the lower range of “normal.” For me, there was no easy way of saying “oh this is what the problem is…low test.” I didn’t know my test was low (I was at 172). I just knew it was a little more difficult for me at the gym because I was unmotivated, a little uninterested in working out or in sex, and was gaining wait in the midsection regardless of the amount of cardio I did. It was a gradual thing getting there so each day was a slow progression to 172.
100mg/ week is pretty standard. Actually, the way most practitioners do it is 200mg every 2 weeks. Your doc is doing a better job at keeping your blood levels closer by the once/wk therapy. You won’t get the great peaks, but you won’t have that week long drought in the valley either.
But, if your doc doesn’t going to prescribe HCG, it will be suppressing your natural test with injected test. Sort of just replacing. I’m not sure how much it takes to complete shut you down as I’m sure each person is different. On average, we produce 4-8mg/day test. Exogenous test will suppress that. Talk to him about HCG. The worst he can say is no, then you can start looking at other places for it.
Well as of now I don’t really notice a difference except I’m not tired and I can’t sleep. I’m gettting 3-4 hrs sleep but assume it’s gonna catch up with me and I’m just getting used to it. I only got the injection thurs so it hasn’t even 3.5 days yet when this stuff is supposed to peak. I am getting intermitent testicular pain, not bad but feels like somthing is going on there but it could be my imagination.
My doctor says he very familiar testosterone tx. having treated hiv patients and using tht on them so I’ll just wait for my 6-8 wk followup and see where he goes from there. If he doesn’t suggest HCG at that point I’ll bring it up or maybe just shoot him a e-mail and ask his thoughts on it.
I already jumped the gun on him with stuff so I’m willing to wait and see. Although by next thurs if I’m not feeling the effects I’m gonna let him know.
[quote]Rob320 wrote:
Your are just in the lower range of “normal.”[/quote]
This simply isn’t true. Reference ranges are statistical numbers that encompass 80% of test values and nothing more. If I’ve tested at 800 for years and then drop to 300. It would be ridiculous to call my 300 value normal, despite it being in range. Normal is a personal issue and has nothing to do with reference ranges.
If you have problems because of low testosterone, those problems aren’t going to go away simply because you have a blood test value that comes back barely in range.
[quote]happydog48 wrote:
Rob320 wrote:
Your are just in the lower range of “normal.”
This simply isn’t true. Reference ranges are statistical numbers that encompass 80% of test values and nothing more. If I’ve tested at 800 for years and then drop to 300. It would be ridiculous to call my 300 value normal, despite it being in range. Normal is a personal issue and has nothing to do with reference ranges.
If you have problems because of low testosterone, those problems aren’t going to go away simply because you have a blood test value that comes back barely in range. [/quote]
Happy,
It’s absolutely true that what is considered “normal” testosterone range for males in the OP’s age group are 241-827ng/dl, which is why I made the statement that he is in the lower range of “normal.” I understand the statistical ranges and how each person is unique in how they feel regardless of what a range says as “normal.” Blood test results are just a piece of an overall puzzle. But for me to say that he is in the lower range of “normal” is 100% accurate as far as modern medicine views the “normal range of male testosterone.” I would be surprised if a person went to their primary care physician with a 450ng/dl test level and received testosterone supplementation whether they said they had low test or felt they were having side effects of low test. My guess is they would be denied because, according to him, “they are in the approved reference range” and the doctor would look at other issues that might be causing the symptoms.
I understand the point you make that if his past results showed a constant 800ng/dl and showed up this time as 280ng/dl a doctor should not consider that normal, although technically in the normal range. But nowhere in the post does the OP mention that he has been tested before at anywhere but the area he currently finds himself. So, in my opinion, there is no reason to assume he has dropped from a high level of around 800 to a lower level of 280 or so. If that was the case, that would not be normal, I agree.
Low range coupled with clear symptoms of low T is all that many need. Levels should also be in the context of age. What is normal for an 80 yo is bogus for a younger man.
Normal lab ranges do not in any way infer a state of well being, these are lab statistics that include guys who are going diabetic or have gynecomastia.
Libido
Skin changes
Fat patterns turning feminine
moody or depressed, short tempered
Urine flow changes, estrogen dominance and BHP
Cholesterol up (TRT will lower)
read up and list all, changes and time lines, write discussion and print for you doctors so they will focus on you instead of writing things down while talking. The printed material should be used as talking points so that nothing is missed. Write and revisit over time as other things come to mind. Also talk about any loss of body hair [legs?] and how you were when younger and everything was right.
If you are working out, transdermals are not right for you. In the gym, you might not want to have a patch showing, perhaps when showering.
Ok so six weeks have past and I had test checked again along with SHGB.
Test. 554
shgb. 19.5
I ran this through a calc. I found and I got these numbers.
Free test. 15.4 ng/dL = 2.78 %
Bioavailable test. 360 ng/dL = 65.1 %
This means nothing to me tbh. I feel no change at all except to acheing knee’s. (to much squating I assume.) What do you all think?
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 554 280-800 ng/dL SEXHORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 19.5 14.5-48.4 nmol/L
Weekly injections, tested right before the next injection (same day)
I got the other numbers from this site, Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator have no idea if it’s accurate but I’m sure it gives a range. No e2 numbers but thought the SHBG would give an idea if it’s high or not.