Test/Tren/Dbol/G6

Pharma
1

So I’m planning for my next cycle…

First was a 10wk test/dbol cycle. I started at 196, and ended around 212 after PCT.

I’m 5’7, around 210 at the moment, with a little higher BF than I’d like, but I’m training for PLing, not BBing. (I know that’s a bit of a cop-out, but it’s true.) My best lifts are 600lb squat, 430 bench, 551 DL in multiply, in competition. I’m 21, but depending on when I start, I may be 22. I’ll definitely be 22 by the time I finish, hah.

Anyway, here’s the cycle:

wk 1-8 test prop, 210mg/wk
wk 1-8 tren ace, 490mg/wk
wk 3-8 dbol 30mg/day
wk 1-12 GHRP-6 200~500mcg/day
wk 1-8 cabergoline .5mg 2x/wk
wk 1-8 adex .5mg/day (a little less for the first two weeks)

test and tren will be shot ED using delts, glute, ventroglute, and quads. Slin pin for delts and quads, 1.5 inch 25g for glute and VG.

40/40/20/20 nolva protocol 3 days after my last day of pinning.

I’ll probably frontload the prop with a shot of 250mg the first day. I’m a little weary about frontloading the tren, though, due to all of the sides. Thoughts?

My goals are strength and body-recomp. I don’t want to get any bigger, as I have a decent shot at totaling elite at 198 or 220.

Questions:

This is my first time with tren, do you think 8 weeks is too long? Another option I was thinking would be replace the first two weeks of tren with more test, IE 700mg test P for the first two weeks, then go to 210/490/210 (test/tren/dbol) for the last 6 weeks.

As for G-6, I was thinking 300mcg shot immediately PWO for a GH response, as well as the ravenous hunger. I’ve seen unbelievable results in recovery that I attribute to para workout nutrition, so I’m sold on a massive meal post workout. For these purposes, do you think an IM shot would be better than a subQ shot? (I don’t think I’m ready for IV yet. lol)

I’d also take 100mcg when I wake up, and before bed for the GH response. If I get too hungry from 100mcg, I’ll lose the PM shot as I don’t want to be overeating right before bed.

Anything I missed? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

2

Sounds great as you have it laid out.

The only thing I would add is that if this is your first time using tren, don’t count on running it as planned. As you are using the ace ester it is very easy and definitely worthwhile to experiment with different doses throughout your first cycle, to see where your sweet spot (or sweet “range”) is.

I say start with the tren, and keep an open mind in terms of duration/dosing.

No need to frontload tren, it kicks in very quickly anyway. 2-3 days. I have ran tren at up to 1g/week with no need for caber, but maybe I’m just lucky.

Oh and I doubt you’ll get hungry from 100mcg GHRP-6. IM is definitely better as far as that goes, in terms of noticeable effect for me anyway. IV has actually been the most comfortable for me, but I didn’t run it this way long enough to determine if results were any better.

^Tren is pretty much perfect for this, given the right diet obviously. I’m sure you’ll have a good one :wink:

3

why such a low dose of Test? 500mg sounds better to me.

4

That’s a terrific cycle, r, you’ve very clearly been paying attention in class. Nice work.

I will say that I, personally, think that you could be inclined to put on weight with this cycle, but I don’t know your actual BF% or your inclination to gain weight past the point you are at, so “hopefully” your BF% is in the higher range and you get a lot more out of the body recomp aspect of the cycle.

Test/tren/dbol/GH is one of my favorite cycles. This is close and I like what you’ve done lowering the test to keep the anabolic component to a minimum and take advantage of the androgenic (in terms of body-recomposition). I think you followed my last cycle, and if you did, you will remember that I dropped around 4% bodyfat while remaining exactly the same weight. This was while dieting for a competition. If I had been doing the notorious T-Nation “clean bulk,” who knows where I would have ended up. My point is that you may be surprised at just how easily you gain weight, and you will probably actually have to watch your diet more than you think. However, none of this is a bad thing, is it.

I also agree with everything Dave_ said above. Tren is an unpredictable animal. She and I get along great, but you never know how you are going to react until your first run. Be prepared and have a plan b and c ready.

Good luck and have fun.

5

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
So I’m planning for my next cycle…

First was a 10wk test/dbol cycle. I started at 196, and ended around 212 after PCT.

I’m 5’7, around 210 at the moment, with a little higher BF than I’d like, but I’m training for PLing, not BBing. (I know that’s a bit of a cop-out, but it’s true.) My best lifts are 600lb squat, 430 bench, 551 DL in multiply, in competition. I’m 21, but depending on when I start, I may be 22. I’ll definitely be 22 by the time I finish, hah.

Anyway, here’s the cycle:

wk 1-8 test prop, 210mg/wk
wk 1-8 tren ace, 490mg/wk
wk 3-8 dbol 30mg/day
wk 1-12 GHRP-6 200~500mcg/day
wk 1-8 cabergoline .5mg 2x/wk
wk 1-8 adex .5mg/day (a little less for the first two weeks)

test and tren will be shot ED using delts, glute, ventroglute, and quads. Slin pin for delts and quads, 1.5 inch 25g for glute and VG.

40/40/20/20 nolva protocol 3 days after my last day of pinning.

I’ll probably frontload the prop with a shot of 250mg the first day. I’m a little weary about frontloading the tren, though, due to all of the sides. Thoughts?

My goals are strength and body-recomp. I don’t want to get any bigger, as I have a decent shot at totaling elite at 198 or 220.

Questions:

This is my first time with tren, do you think 8 weeks is too long? Another option I was thinking would be replace the first two weeks of tren with more test, IE 700mg test P for the first two weeks, then go to 210/490/210 (test/tren/dbol) for the last 6 weeks.

As for G-6, I was thinking 300mcg shot immediately PWO for a GH response, as well as the ravenous hunger. I’ve seen unbelievable results in recovery that I attribute to para workout nutrition, so I’m sold on a massive meal post workout. For these purposes, do you think an IM shot would be better than a subQ shot? (I don’t think I’m ready for IV yet. lol)

I’d also take 100mcg when I wake up, and before bed for the GH response. If I get too hungry from 100mcg, I’ll lose the PM shot as I don’t want to be overeating right before bed.

Anything I missed? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

This is a near perfect PL cycle for strength.
Couple thoughts though. Given your current weight you really are pulling yourself in two directions. Its going to be tough to get your weight down to 198 on this cycle unless you strip pure bodyfat because you will definitely add muscle. Equally true tren can aid in fat loss and you might find yourself struggling to hit a bodymass conducive to 220.
That aside it looks great.
100mcg of G6 will do little to induce ravenous hunger. I, like you, like to hit a massive dose of it post workout 300-500mcg. Be mindful that myself and others have noticed too much G6 too late at night can contribute to insomnia and shortness of breathe. Add this to the tren you’re on a things could be troublesome.
At your size I’d be using 40-50mg of dbol 45 minutes pre-training. Its so worth it and so good when the test and tren saturate.
On the subject of loading tren ace there’s little need because as Dave said Acetate will build up super quickly. Frontloading is generally reserved for long esters.
I hit my G6 sub-Q mostly because I got more slin pins than 23G and its just easier to work with those small doses without a lot of dead space.

6

Thanks for all of your help, guys.

That’s a good point about finding the sweet spot with the tren, Dave. I’ll probably start with the 210/490 and hope for the best, and if the sides to flare up, I’ll decrease the tren gradually. Depending on that, maybe I’ll up the dose of test to bring up the total mg count. I could also increase the dbol dose as I’ve done up to 60mg in a day without back/calf pumps. I don’t know how smart it would be to run 50mg dbol for 6 weeks, though. hah

Dave, as for the GHRP-6, when you say IM is ‘better in terms of noticeable effect [than subQ]’ what do you mean exactly? Also, if you shot it IM, how did you rotate sites? Shooting the AAS once a day, and G-6 twice, sometimes three times per day just seems like a lot of IM injections. Perhaps shoot my AM/PM shots sub Q and my PWO shot IM? Maybe I’ll even get the balls to shoot my PWO G-6 IV.

I’ll also think about starting off without the caber, or maybe a lower dose and seeing what happens.

Thanks for your input, Cortes. Regarding my weight, I’m not terribly worried about it. I’ll most likely end up using Bauer97’s “earn your carbs” diet, keeping my meals relatively low carb/high fat and then a lot of carbs around workout times. I think this will work fairly well for body recomp as long as I keep protein high. Staying the same weight while decreasing BF would be ideal, really. I could easily cut down 10-15lbs of water to make it to 198, and could even get up to 235 (for 220’s) or so before cutting weight would be an issue. (I’ll be utilizing 24 hour weigh ins.) Plus, I gained ~50lbs in just under a year, this past year, so between that and 500-700lb squats, my joints have kind of been taking a beating. Thus, I think adding another 15-20lbs would kind of suck for my knees. More fish oils for me!

Either way, I’ll just go with the flow and see what happens.

I’ve seen the test/tren/dbol cycle on here before, yes. It very well could’ve been you who I saw it from. But… wasn’t your last cycle a 6 month alpha-super-uber-cycle of like 2g/aas plus GH?

As for plans B and C, I’ll be sure to tweak the doses (in the manner described above) if I have problems. If all goes to shit with the tren, which, hopefully it wont haha, I’ll just run 700mg test prop and dbol with the G-6.

A random question, kind of in regards to weight/weighing in:

Assuming I’ll have a 24hr weigh in, I’ll be using Kroczaleski’s water cutting protocol, which I’ve used in the past (while I was natural) with success. If I decide to make a drastic weight cut (say, 15-25lbs) how does this sound:

24 hours before weigh-ins (so, 48hrs before the meet)… cut out the dbol and take ~2g of Adex. Follow Kroc’s water cutting protocol for the next 24 hours until the weigh in.

Upon weighing in, and hopefully making weight… take ~50-60mg dbol to restore estrogen (and water weight) with ~500mcg GHRP-6 for a massive meal and liquids to regain weight.

Thanks again, Guys.

7

Ahh, saps, thanks for chiming in. I didn’t see your post before I just posted that wall of text. Like I said, I’ll see what happens regarding my weight, and I forgot to include the fact that I’ll have 24hr weigh ins in my OP. Sorry!

Also, you think 50mg of dbol is fine to run for 6 weeks? I guess I could use liv-52 or some other liver support, I guess if I really feel the need. I also forgot to ask about the dbol dosing in my OP… You suggest all of it pre-workout rather than split up during the day for PL purposes?

8

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Ahh, saps, thanks for chiming in. I didn’t see your post before I just posted that wall of text. Like I said, I’ll see what happens regarding my weight, and I forgot to include the fact that I’ll have 24hr weigh ins in my OP. Sorry!

Also, you think 50mg of dbol is fine to run for 6 weeks? I guess I could use liv-52 or some other liver support, I guess if I really feel the need. I also forgot to ask about the dbol dosing in my OP… You suggest all of it pre-workout rather than split up during the day for PL purposes?

[/quote]
The greatest myth in the AAS game is that running an 17AA oral will magically ruin your liver after 6 weeks.

I’ve run 40-50mg of dbol every training day [read 4-5 times a week] for 10 weeks straight. Liver values were virtually the same after as before. So yes run it when you want. I do think the only on training days and all at once might be a tad easier on the system who knows?

For a PL yes your goal is to lift heavy stuff so taking all dbol all at once will maximize this. Depending on the lift and lifter but the dbol mega-dose pre-training is or at least can be worth 2-5% on a max lift IMO. In doing reps its the difference between a set of 10 and a set of 12.
So yeah for all my PL friends I always say dbol all at once 45 minutes pre workout.

Finally, Im rather uncomfortable with Matt Kroc’s extreme dehydration method. If you’ve actually done it before and it worked for you and you had success in your meet then more power to ya. But if you just think you can pull it off, think again it aint easy.

9

Thanks, Saps. I’ll run the dbol @ 50mg on training days only, then.

As for the cutting protocol, why don’t you like it? I’ve used it before to go from 177 to 165 for a 24hr weigh in, then ate a burrito and 3 tacos, washed down with a bottle of pedialyte and gained 7lbs back within those 30 minutes and weighed 176 the day of the meet.

:confused:

Does the ‘drug’ part of the cutting weight debacle sound okay, though?

10

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Thanks, Saps. I’ll run the dbol @ 50mg on training days only, then.

As for the cutting protocol, why don’t you like it? I’ve used it before to go from 177 to 165 for a 24hr weigh in, then ate a burrito and 3 tacos, washed down with a bottle of pedialyte and gained 7lbs back within those 30 minutes and weighed 176 the day of the meet.

:confused:

Does the ‘drug’ part of the cutting weight debacle sound okay, though?[/quote]
I suppose I dont like it because I cannot do it effectively myself nothing more and nothing less. Sounds like you can do it so more power to ya.

11

Fair enough. Thanks for your help.

12

Great layout. I would however suggest you start with caber anyways. Just cover your bases. If you’re fine this time around, after you’ve gotten a feel for how everything hits you (esp. tren), then think about dropping the caber for the next time you run this. But I think you should always have it on hand and I think you should probably run it at your originally planned dose THIS time around.

13

Hey rrjc,

Sorry that was a bit vague, when I say noticeable effect I mean mainly the instantaneous hunger. I generally would shoot 500mcg around 30mins post workout, and then get to work on my food supplies, lol. When I shot SC I found that whilst the hunger still hit me, it was much milder. Also, I found that taking advantage of the hunger surge from IM GHRP-6 use sped up my gains somewhat. I was running anadrol/winstrol or high dose dbol a lot of the time so my appetite wasn’t great. The GHRP-6 made a day and night difference, really.

And as saps said, the toxicity of oral AAS is hugely overblown. Look at some of the medical trials, AIDS patients have been given whopping doses of anadrol for long durations of time (6+ months) with no adverse effects on liver values.

I personally have run dbol at 80mg ED for almost 4 months straight. I do take care to have regular LFTs to monitor things, plus I very rarely drink alcohol and I make sure I am getting a decent dose of antioxidants regularly.

Coffee is absolutely fucking brilliant for liver support, although you’ll have to thank GW for that piece of info, as he is the one who first brought it to our attention.

15

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]smallville wrote:
why such a low dose of Test? 500mg sounds better to me.[/quote]

Because a lot of the side effects fro running the normal (i.e. 500-1000mg) dose of test with any amount of tren (from about 250mg/wk upwards) can be alleviated by dropping the test.

However you still need 100-200 mg/wk test to provide the estrogen needed to support libido.

In actuality, low test + high tren > high test + low tren or high test + high tren.

BBB[/quote]

I’d like to add that actually my libido is immense on low test + high tren, much more so than any combination involving high test.

16

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
I’d like to add that actually my libido is immense on low test + high tren, much more so than any combination involving high test.
[/quote]

Oh FFS, really? I got tennis elbow while on 500mg test/wk.

< Needs to find a GF. lol

Thanks for clearing that up, Dave. I’ll shoot my AM/PM GHRP-6 subQ, and my PWO shots IM. As for site rotation, surely I would just consider it another IM shot and just include it in normal 8 site rotation, correct?

17

I’ll be following this closely, as I plan on doing almost the exact same thing starting late January.

Good luck rrjc!

18

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
I’d like to add that actually my libido is immense on low test + high tren, much more so than any combination involving high test.
[/quote]

Oh FFS, really? I got tennis elbow while on 500mg test/wk.

< Needs to find a GF. lol

Thanks for clearing that up, Dave. I’ll shoot my AM/PM GHRP-6 subQ, and my PWO shots IM. As for site rotation, surely I would just consider it another IM shot and just include it in normal 8 site rotation, correct?

[/quote]

No problem. Personally I don’t worry about rotating too much with GHRP-6. I use an insulin pin, and the volume is so small I tend to just use triceps, and sometimes delts. The fact that I rotate at all is more of a habit based thing. Don’t forget it is saline, not oil - so it doesn’t hang about in the muscle like AAS.

I’d like to know how the SC shots work out for you, if you do them. I reasoned that I didn’t want an insulin-stimulating compound to be present for too long - hence I opted for the faster release IM route. Still, I’d guess (and it is just a guess) that SC would be better for joint healing properties, as the compound will be in your system for a longer duration.