Test Taper Protocol

Pharma
161

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
adam15425 wrote:
AlteredState wrote:
Pretty nice. The only thing I might say is that since you used boldenone, you migh want to extend the stasis for 2 more weeks, just to be sure.

I was thinking the same at first. But I’m going to stop the boldenone at week 11 and running the test e until week 12. Shouldn’t that be enough time (7 weeks until the actual taper)for the boldenone to clear my system?

Well it should be enough time, but an exta week or two would just be insurance, in case it isn’t.[/quote]

Hey I just started a week ago and my last shot of EQ was 2 weeks ago, so should I extend the 100mg a week to 7 weeks maybe 8? (I’m doing mast E 50 and test E 50)

164

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
blok wrote:
what about using Rhodiola Rosea to control cortisol?

Well yes and no. I mean RR might have some effect on cortisol moderation, but I think that’s mostly due to it ability to ‘rejuvenate’ the adrenals, not to ameliorate the effects of cortisol itself.[/quote]

I seem to remember you saying that you tend to battle cortisol at times, (if I am remembering correctly) do you have any tricks of controlling cortisol or maybe can you just divulge what method works best for you?

166

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
Mousse wrote:
AlteredState wrote:
blok wrote:
what about using Rhodiola Rosea to control cortisol?

Well yes and no. I mean RR might have some effect on cortisol moderation, but I think that’s mostly due to it ability to ‘rejuvenate’ the adrenals, not to ameliorate the effects of cortisol itself.

I seem to remember you saying that you tend to battle cortisol at times, (if I am remembering correctly) do you have any tricks of controlling cortisol or maybe can you just divulge what method works best for you?

LOL, I’m happy to share my cortisol combatting strategy my friend…

Testosterone. Works increadibly well.

Oh, what you mean whilst off cycle. Hmmm well alas I have no effective strategy to be honest. I would love to try the 11T but it’s too pricey.

Basically, I think that laying off stimulants of any sort is a good idea to battle cortisol. Get your adrenals in check (by using RR as mentioned above). Ensure you get quality sleep. Reduce training volume and frequency. Consider using a non hormonal anabolic agent like GH, IGF1, possible USP labs powerfull, etc.

But to be honest these will only offset the catabolic nature of cortisol, and not actually reduce output of cortisol and your psychological reaction to it.[/quote]

CT posted the following a while back to bring down cortisol levels:

  • good sleeping habits
  • carbs only post-workout
  • eating alkaline foods with every meal (green veggies and almonds are good choices)
  • low dose of glycine (2-5g) with every meal
  • Phosphatidylserine post-workout (400-800mg) and in the evening.
  • cut out all stimulants
  • try to train earlier in the day to avoid an evening cortisol spike
170

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
AlteredState wrote:
Mousse wrote:
AlteredState wrote:
blok wrote:
what about using Rhodiola Rosea to control cortisol?

Well yes and no. I mean RR might have some effect on cortisol moderation, but I think that’s mostly due to it ability to ‘rejuvenate’ the adrenals, not to ameliorate the effects of cortisol itself.

I seem to remember you saying that you tend to battle cortisol at times, (if I am remembering correctly) do you have any tricks of controlling cortisol or maybe can you just divulge what method works best for you?

LOL, I’m happy to share my cortisol combatting strategy my friend…

Testosterone. Works increadibly well.

Oh, what you mean whilst off cycle. Hmmm well alas I have no effective strategy to be honest. I would love to try the 11T but it’s too pricey.

Basically, I think that laying off stimulants of any sort is a good idea to battle cortisol. Get your adrenals in check (by using RR as mentioned above). Ensure you get quality sleep. Reduce training volume and frequency. Consider using a non hormonal anabolic agent like GH, IGF1, possible USP labs powerfull, etc.

But to be honest these will only offset the catabolic nature of cortisol, and not actually reduce output of cortisol and your psychological reaction to it.

CT posted the following a while back to bring down cortisol levels:

  • good sleeping habits
  • carbs only post-workout
  • eating alkaline foods with every meal (green veggies and almonds are good choices)
  • low dose of glycine (2-5g) with every meal
  • Phosphatidylserine post-workout (400-800mg) and in the evening.
  • cut out all stimulants
  • try to train earlier in the day to avoid an evening cortisol spike

[/quote]

I have to ask: with good sleeping habits and working out earlier in the day among a few other remedies listed above, can one still make progress toward lowering cortisol levels if unwilling to cut stimulants and carbs (other than PWO) from the diet or is this an all or none type thing?

Are there any thoughts on when would be the ideal time to turn the cardio back up a few notches; during stasis, during taper, post taper?

Btw thanks in advance, it’s good to know we can still rely on B and some others these days outside the T-cell for some good advice. Thanks again.

172

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
The evening training session is a good one.

I’m not that convinced by phospha though and glycine is poorly tolerated by some folks.

Also when he says carbs only PWO does he mean only eat carbs (i.e. no protein) PWO or that you shouldn’t eat carbs at any other time of the day except PWO?[/quote]

I am using Glycine PWO and you are right. You must increase the dosage slowly while your digestive system adapts. I now tolerate 10+ grams PWO very well. I did get the runs when I first started. As for Phosphatidylserine, I haven’t tried it.

As for the carbs only PWO, he means with protein.

173

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Mousse wrote:
I have to ask: with good sleeping habits and working out earlier in the day among a few other remedies listed above, can one still make progress toward lowering cortisol levels if unwilling to cut stimulants and carbs (other than PWO) from the diet or is this an all or none type thing?

Are there any thoughts on when would be the ideal time to turn the cardio back up a few notches; during stasis, during taper, post taper?

Btw thanks in advance, it’s good to know we can still rely on B and some others these days outside the T-cell for some good advice. Thanks again.

Few things are ‘all or nothing’ IMO. But of course, your individual response/physiology/lifestyle/personality will create a HUGE amount of variables. I gues the answer is to be as strict/disciplined/etc as you feel you can, without negatively impacting how you life your life as much as possible.

I mean there are stims and there are stims. I would be inclined to definitely avoid ephedrine, reduce caffine and only sparingly use something like HRX. Spike should probably be avoided too or minimised.

However certain stims like green tea might be OK - depending on your response. Sure there is caffine there but there are other mechanisms of stimulation and fat mobilisation to be had from green tea.

Personally, I think that some stim use during the stasis might be OK, if it’s mild and infrequent. During the taper, maybe not so much. Post taper the same, but again it depends on you. Personally I am hugely cortisol-prone and will be doing my utmost to stay away from stims of all types. It will be hard, to say the least.

But then again, it may be that my streesful nature will drive me on without the need for exogenous stimulation. We’ll see :wink:

I plan on using bacopa monnieri to try and blunt any stress response. I may also procure some benzos to facilitate restful sleep on the few occassions where my mind and body for some reason goes into cortisol meltdown. It has happened before and I have lost literally pounds of muscle and glycogen literally overnight through inappropriate stress responses.

BUshy[/quote]

Gracias

174

I have to say, that after finally following this protocol very closely for the first time that the results were outstanding. Aside from a little acne flair up coming off the AI during the stasis and again following the taper for some reason, it was the most seamless transition I could imagine.

As someone not prone to gyno but highly prone to post cycle shut down and associated blues - I highly recommend this protocol. I used prop. all the way through but intend to use a long estered test next time and then move to prop as the pinning EOD gets old (and I don’t mind pinning).

If the blast and SERM works for you great, but if it doesn’t you need to try this.

Thanks Priz

Mousse

176

Glycine is great if your not already lean

177

I have 5000mg of Test-E, and I was planning on doing my usual 500mg a week for 10 weeks with Arimidex in small doses on cycle and then plain old Nolva for PCT. However, due to the way things are going around here I can’t get any Nolva/Arimidex for my next cycle.

Is there someone better at math than I am that can figure out how I should modify my cycle to do the cycle itself/then a taper with only 5000mg? As best as I can figure, I could do 8 weeks at 500mg a week and use 1000mg for the taper…

Hopefully someone can help, I’ve always been interested in a taper and now I’m kind of forced into doing it - albeit very raw with no Arimidex or Nolva! Thanks.

178

[quote]InventiveFlow wrote:
I have 5000mg of Test-E, and I was planning on doing my usual 500mg a week for 10 weeks with Arimidex in small doses on cycle and then plain old Nolva for PCT. However, due to the way things are going around here I can’t get any Nolva/Arimidex for my next cycle.

Is there someone better at math than I am that can figure out how I should modify my cycle to do the cycle itself/then a taper with only 5000mg? As best as I can figure, I could do 8 weeks at 500mg a week and use 1000mg for the taper…

Hopefully someone can help, I’ve always been interested in a taper and now I’m kind of forced into doing it - albeit very raw with no Arimidex or Nolva! Thanks. [/quote]

I don’t recommend commencing your cycle without having at least an AI like Adex on hand. I am in the midst of my first cycle and was shocked to experience sensitive nipples at 15 days in. It took 10 days of increased dosage Adex to remedy the situation and caused considerable anxiety in the meanwhile.

In my case, I started Adex at about 0.25mg/d 3 days into the cycle and upped the dose to 0.5mg/d to correct the elevated estrogen 15 days in. It takes about 10 days for Adex to build up in your system so it takes about that long to correct an imbalance.

There is one caveat in my case. That is that I combined 250mg E3D Test E with 30mg/d of dbol which adds considerable pressure to aromatization. I have now ended the 5 week phase of dbol and continue with 250mg test e E3D and 0.25mg/d Adex.

You don’t want to get a flare-up with no AI on hand.

As for the test taper; you could shave off from 500mg per week what you will require for your taper. Pad it a little since there will be some loss of oil from overfilled pins, underfilled vials, etc.

179

[quote]InventiveFlow wrote:
I have 5000mg of Test-E, and I was planning on doing my usual 500mg a week for 10 weeks with Arimidex in small doses on cycle and then plain old Nolva for PCT. However, due to the way things are going around here I can’t get any Nolva/Arimidex for my next cycle.

Is there someone better at math than I am that can figure out how I should modify my cycle to do the cycle itself/then a taper with only 5000mg? As best as I can figure, I could do 8 weeks at 500mg a week and use 1000mg for the taper…

Hopefully someone can help, I’ve always been interested in a taper and now I’m kind of forced into doing it - albeit very raw with no Arimidex or Nolva! Thanks. [/quote]

If you can get a hold of some prop for the taper that would be ideal. I think you are asking if you can taper off with 1000mg of Test E - if that’s the case my math has you using 600mg for the 100mg/wk stasis, leaving 400mg for the actual taper, although prop would be ideal I think that 400mg of E should be enough. I’m not a vet though and would use Prop only so maybe someone who has successfully tapered with the longer esters can chime in here.

OTOH, there really is no excuse not to have an AI and SERM (if you need it) IMO…they are merely a click away.

180

[quote]Mousse wrote:
InventiveFlow wrote:
I have 5000mg of Test-E, and I was planning on doing my usual 500mg a week for 10 weeks with Arimidex in small doses on cycle and then plain old Nolva for PCT. However, due to the way things are going around here I can’t get any Nolva/Arimidex for my next cycle.

Is there someone better at math than I am that can figure out how I should modify my cycle to do the cycle itself/then a taper with only 5000mg? As best as I can figure, I could do 8 weeks at 500mg a week and use 1000mg for the taper…

Hopefully someone can help, I’ve always been interested in a taper and now I’m kind of forced into doing it - albeit very raw with no Arimidex or Nolva! Thanks.

If you can get a hold of some prop for the taper that would be ideal. I think you are asking if you can taper off with 1000mg of Test E - if that’s the case my math has you using 600mg for the 100mg/wk stasis, leaving 400mg for the actual taper, although prop would be ideal I think that 400mg of E should be enough. I’m not a vet though and would use Prop only so maybe someone who has successfully tapered with the longer esters can chime in here.

OTOH, there really is no excuse not to have an AI and SERM (if you need it) IMO…they are merely a click away.[/quote]

Actually use test prop only if you cannot use a longer acting compound such as test enanthate or cypionate.

You don’t want to use anything that could cause a ‘spike’ in your hormone levels, use something that will keep the levels smoothly declining, a spike can increase SHBG, and estrogen levels. Just like on cycle spikes in hormone levels will also increase acne. So avoid testprop if possible.