Test Enth, Dbol, Proviron Cycle

[Brook1]

Apparently 100iu EOD is sufficient during cycle. Check out the HCG thread that is open somewhere on page 1 or 2.

I did a long answer to the SHBG question but it seems to have disappeared… what the hell…

Proviron is used in this (and most) case for the SHBG benefits. SHBG is at its highest when Test levels are at their highest - for most cycles of the most popular esters (Prop, Cyp, Deca) over 8-12 weeks the peak levels tend to be arrived at between week 3 and week 5. So proviron is used at this time… for you it would be a good move to use it either at the beginning of the cycle, or INSTEAD of the cycle, as it is obviously SHBG that is causing the problems with your ‘low’ test.

It seems to me you are blurring the lines between TRT and Bodybuilding AAS use.
This is a common technique of the pain pill addict too… and it is just a way to justify using the drugs one likes in excess without having to admit the truth.

If you want to sort out your endo levels - stick with Proviron, and then maybe go onto TRT related doses… if you are wanting to cycle, then do that. But dont pretend that you ‘need’ all this testosterone, dianabol and arimidex because you have a low free test count.

Anyway, you should start to feel something from the proviron within a week or two - usually in the form of erections. This is the DHT and not the SHBG work - i am not aware of how long that actually takes to make a difference there… i would have thought immediately but…
You are unlikely to FEEL the SHBG ‘binding’ as it were… as any increase in the feel of test is going to be masked by the increase in DHT - which gives test its ‘feel good’ factor IME.

As for proviron whilst on TRT doses… sure! throw it in the mix, i think it is a good idea, especially as a way to maximise the low dosages of exo test utilized on TRT.
If you dont feel a libido raise from 50mg (you should - i used to but dont anymore) then up it to 75mg. If you use proviron alone dont use more than 75mg a day… but if you are going to be shutdown anyway then you can use as much as you like (100mg if wanted).

You dont need to taper into your TRT. You would go straight in… maybe do a 2 week taper/drop if you like… but i dont think it is needed from 600mg a week down to 100mg a week - as the esters have a default ta[per of their own. Maybe you could drop an injection per week for the last 2 weeks before the stasis/cruise period…

JJ

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote] Brook wrote:
Apparently 100iu EOD is sufficient during cycle. Check out the HCG thread that is open somewhere on page 1 or 2.
[/quote]

Will do.

I did a long answer to the SHBG question but it seems to have disappeared… what the hell…

Proviron is used in this (and most) case for the SHBG benefits. SHBG is at its highest when Test levels are at their highest - for most cycles of the most popular esters (Prop, Cyp, Deca) over 8-12 weeks the peak levels tend to be arrived at between week 3 and week 5. So proviron is used at this time… for you it would be a good move to use it either at the beginning of the cycle, or INSTEAD of the cycle, as it is obviously SHBG that is causing the problems with your ‘low’ test.

How many weeks of Proviron 2x25mg/d would you recommend at the beginning of the cycle (or throughout) and would it be alright to take it during the same weeks as Dbol?

It seems to me you are blurring the lines between TRT and Bodybuilding AAS use.
This is a common technique of the pain pill addict too… and it is just a way to justify using the drugs one likes in excess without having to admit the truth.

If you want to sort out your endo levels - stick with Proviron, and then maybe go onto TRT related doses… if you are wanting to cycle, then do that. But dont pretend that you ‘need’ all this testosterone, dianabol and arimidex because you have a low free test count.

I know my thread has encompassed both BB AAS use and TRT. I don’t feel it’s a case of denial for me in that I want both. Most important long term is to improve my quality of life through TRT, however short term I would love to do one cycle to put on some LBM and experience what to date has eluded me - decent gains in the gym and some fire in my belly when I train instead of constantly dragging my sorry ass as best I can muster.

Anyway, you should start to feel something from the proviron within a week or two - usually in the form of erections. This is the DHT and not the SHBG work - i am not aware of how long that actually takes to make a difference there… i would have thought immediately but…
You are unlikely to FEEL the SHBG ‘binding’ as it were… as any increase in the feel of test is going to be masked by the increase in DHT - which gives test its ‘feel good’ factor IME.

I guess you are referring to my taking 25mg Proviron 2x/d presently before commencing my cycle or TRT. I appreciate your input especially since you are an experienced afficianado of Proviron.

As for proviron whilst on TRT doses… sure! throw it in the mix, i think it is a good idea, especially as a way to maximise the low dosages of exo test utilized on TRT.
If you dont feel a libido raise from 50mg (you should - i used to but dont anymore) then up it to 75mg. If you use proviron alone dont use more than 75mg a day… but if you are going to be shutdown anyway then you can use as much as you like (100mg if wanted).

Yes, I think continuing at 25mg 2x/d will probably work great with 100 mg testosterone, a little Adex and hCG.

You dont need to taper into your TRT. You would go straight in… maybe do a 2 week taper/drop if you like… but i dont think it is needed from 600mg a week down to 100mg a week - as the esters have a default ta[per of their own. Maybe you could drop an injection per week for the last 2 weeks before the stasis/cruise period…

Thanks for the confirmation on that. Sounds like a plan. Now I just have to increase my income a little and nail down my sources.

[Brook1]

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Brook wrote:
…
Proviron is used in this (and most) case for the SHBG benefits. SHBG is at its highest when Test levels are at their highest - for most cycles of the most popular esters (Prop, Cyp, Deca) over 8-12 weeks the peak levels tend to be arrived at between week 3 and week 5. So proviron is used at this time… for you it would be a good move to use it either at the beginning of the cycle, or INSTEAD of the cycle, as it is obviously SHBG that is causing the problems with your ‘low’ test.

How many weeks of Proviron 2x25mg/d would you recommend at the beginning of the cycle (or throughout) and would it be alright to take it during the same weeks as Dbol?[/quote]

Yes it is ok with the Dianabol, IIRC proviron isnt harsh on the liver at all. It is like oral primobolan in that regard. (about as anabolic too!! lol!!)
The sides come from using above 100mg a day, and the sides are androgen based as it is basically methylated DHT. Good stuff!

I would say that one dose is enough for proviron, i personally dont feel its benefits when i split the dosage. Or more accurately, i never used to feel the benefits from 2x 25mg… these days i dont feel the benefits from 2x50mg! ;p

As for the actual question: how many weeks? Well just run it from the beginning - for the whole duration of the cycle.[quote]

It seems to me you are blurring the lines between TRT and Bodybuilding AAS use.
This is a common technique of the pain pill addict too… and it is just a way to justify using the drugs one likes in excess without having to admit the truth.

If you want to sort out your endo levels - stick with Proviron, and then maybe go onto TRT related doses… if you are wanting to cycle, then do that. But dont pretend that you ‘need’ all this testosterone, dianabol and arimidex because you have a low free test count.

I know my thread has encompassed both BB AAS use and TRT. I don’t feel it’s a case of denial for me in that I want both. Most important long term is to improve my quality of life through TRT, however short term I would love to do one cycle to put on some LBM and experience what to date has eluded me - decent gains in the gym and some fire in my belly when I train instead of constantly dragging my sorry ass as best I can muster.[/quote]

lol! Good - just checking. Dont get me wrong, many guys here get both birds with the one stone, however there wasnt much mention of BB and the usual ‘stuff’ in this thread, it was all SHBG, Free Test, TRT etc… and the cycle is NOT a trt style dosed plan.

But a nice cycle all the same. I have recently had the fires of oral love (ok, that came out wrong) awakened within me, after finishing 3 weeks of drol with my test/eq cycle. I love the immediate (relatively) results one gets… i have been used to long esters for a while now and forgot the joy of messy bulk!

Good luck - you should enjoy it. PM me for source checks or help in that regard if you like. ;)[quote]

Anyway, you should start to feel something from the proviron within a week or two - usually in the form of erections. This is the DHT and not the SHBG at work - i am not aware of how long that actually takes to make a difference there… i would have thought immediately but…

You are unlikely to FEEL the SHBG ‘binding’ as it were… as any increase in the feel of test is going to be masked by the increase in DHT - which gives test its ‘feel good’ factor IME.

I guess you are referring to my taking 25mg Proviron 2x/d presently before commencing my cycle or TRT. I appreciate your input especially since you are an experienced afficianado of Proviron.[/quote]

Yup, that and also when it is used ‘on cycle’ they are the things to look out for… Obviously there is fuck all strength or anabolism to had.

As for proviron whilst on TRT doses… sure! throw it in the mix, i think it is a good idea, especially as a way to maximise the low dosages of exo test utilized on TRT.
If you dont feel a libido raise from 50mg (you should - i used to but dont anymore) then up it to 75mg. If you use proviron alone dont use more than 75mg a day… but if you are going to be shutdown anyway then you can use as much as you like (100mg if wanted).

Yes, I think continuing at 25mg 2x/d will probably work great with 100 mg testosterone, a little Adex and hCG.[/quote]

Agreed[quote]

You dont need to taper into your TRT. You would go straight in… maybe do a 2 week taper/drop if you like… but i dont think it is needed from 600mg a week down to 100mg a week - as the esters have a default ta[per of their own. Maybe you could drop an injection per week for the last 2 weeks before the stasis/cruise period…

Thanks for the confirmation on that. Sounds like a plan. Now I just have to increase my income a little and nail down my sources.

Just to let you know… $700 for 5 grams? Powder sources sell for between $2-8/g.
Even Human Grade pharmaceuticals are usually $5 per amp - thats $20/g!

Never heard of anything so crazy. PM me if you like.

JJ

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote] Brook wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
Brook wrote:
…
Proviron is used in this (and most) case for the SHBG benefits. SHBG is at its highest when Test levels are at their highest - for most cycles of the most popular esters (Prop, Cyp, Deca) over 8-12 weeks the peak levels tend to be arrived at between week 3 and week 5.

So proviron is used at this time… for you it would be a good move to use it either at the beginning of the cycle, or INSTEAD of the cycle, as it is obviously SHBG that is causing the problems with your ‘low’ test.

How many weeks of Proviron 2x25mg/d would you recommend at the beginning of the cycle (or throughout) and would it be alright to take it during the same weeks as Dbol?

Yes it is ok with the Dianabol, IIRC proviron isnt harsh on the liver at all. It is like oral primobolan in that regard. (about as anabolic too!! lol!!)

The sides come from using above 100mg a day, and the sides are androgen based as it is basically methylated DHT. Good stuff!

I would say that one dose is enough for proviron, i personally dont feel its benefits when i split the dosage. Or more accurately, i never used to feel the benefits from 2x 25mg… these days i dont feel the benefits from 2x50mg! ;p

As for the actual question: how many weeks? Well just run it from the beginning - for the whole duration of the cycle.

It seems to me you are blurring the lines between TRT and Bodybuilding AAS use.
This is a common technique of the pain pill addict too… and it is just a way to justify using the drugs one likes in excess without having to admit the truth.

If you want to sort out your endo levels - stick with Proviron, and then maybe go onto TRT related doses… if you are wanting to cycle, then do that. But dont pretend that you ‘need’ all this testosterone, dianabol and arimidex because you have a low free test count.

I know my thread has encompassed both BB AAS use and TRT. I don’t feel it’s a case of denial for me in that I want both.

Most important long term is to improve my quality of life through TRT, however short term I would love to do one cycle to put on some LBM and experience what to date has eluded me - decent gains in the gym and some fire in my belly when I train instead of constantly dragging my sorry ass as best I can muster.

lol! Good - just checking. Dont get me wrong, many guys here get both birds with the one stone, however there wasnt much mention of BB and the usual ‘stuff’ in this thread, it was all SHBG, Free Test, TRT etc… and the cycle is NOT a trt style dosed plan.

But a nice cycle all the same. I have recently had the fires of oral love (ok, that came out wrong) awakened within me, after finishing 3 weeks of drol with my test/eq cycle. I love the immediate (relatively) results one gets… i have been used to long esters for a while now and forgot the joy of messy bulk!

Good luck - you should enjoy it. PM me for source checks or help in that regard if you like.

Anyway, you should start to feel something from the proviron within a week or two - usually in the form of erections. This is the DHT and not the SHBG at work - i am not aware of how long that actually takes to make a difference there… i would have thought immediately but…

You are unlikely to FEEL the SHBG ‘binding’ as it were… as any increase in the feel of test is going to be masked by the increase in DHT - which gives test its ‘feel good’ factor IME.

I guess you are referring to my taking 25mg Proviron 2x/d presently before commencing my cycle or TRT. I appreciate your input especially since you are an experienced afficianado of Proviron.

Yup, that and also when it is used ‘on cycle’ they are the things to look out for… Obviously there is fuck all strength or anabolism to had.

As for proviron whilst on TRT doses… sure! throw it in the mix, i think it is a good idea, especially as a way to maximise the low dosages of exo test utilized on TRT.

If you dont feel a libido raise from 50mg (you should - i used to but dont anymore) then up it to 75mg. If you use proviron alone dont use more than 75mg a day… but if you are going to be shutdown anyway then you can use as much as you like (100mg if wanted).

Yes, I think continuing at 25mg 2x/d will probably work great with 100 mg testosterone, a little Adex and hCG.

Agreed

You dont need to taper into your TRT. You would go straight in… maybe do a 2 week taper/drop if you like… but i dont think it is needed from 600mg a week down to 100mg a week - as the esters have a default ta[per of their own. Maybe you could drop an injection per week for the last 2 weeks before the stasis/cruise period…

Thanks for the confirmation on that. Sounds like a plan. Now I just have to increase my income a little and nail down my sources.

Just to let you know… $700 for 5 grams? Powder sources sell for between $2-8/g.
Even Human Grade pharmaceuticals are usually $5 per amp - thats $20/g!

Never heard of anything so crazy. PM me if you like.

JJ[/quote]

Thanks for all your input JJ. Noted and much appreciated.

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
Oh yeah. Get this. Doc says he and his gang of cutting edge endocrinologists now prefer subcutaneous injections of testosterone. I asked even in oil base?

His reply was yes that this facilitates injections and the effect is equal to intramuscular injections.

I asked why bodybuilders still inject intramuscular and he said because they don’t know yet. Any opinions??

Well I know of one other person who uses subQ oil injections.

I suspect that it is due to the volume that BBers won’t ever inject a cycle subQ. I mean a 1-3ml bolus of oil, subQ could get pretty ugly. Not to mention that adipose tissue is less well vascularised than muscle and will therfore take longer to disperse the depot.[/quote]

Altered,

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. SC is more “geared” (excuse the pun) to lower dosage TRT.

[Dynamo_Hum]

My local source was supposed to have my Proviron today. He didn’t get it after all and said he’ll have it tomorrow. I hope he does. Even after only 3 days at 2 x 25mg with no other AAS, I feel like I am coming out of a fog. I am in better morale too. I hope this indicates my hormones are adjusting in a positive sense - SHBG down and Free Test up. I want to get tomorrow’s dose so as not to derail progress.

Also I did chest and back with my bud at the gym today. We did 3 triple supersets of 6 reps bench, 10 reps incline dumbells, reps to exhaustion on the pec deck (no rest in between); then 3 triple supersets of 6 pull ups, 10 pull downs, seated chest on pad rows to exhaustion. He really pushes himself and me too. Just the kick I needed after not having slept much (researching sources for test enenthate). He offered me a couple of HOT-ROX and that was just the ticket. It didn’t increase my strength, but it sure put a spring in my step and allowed me to encourage him to squeeze out that extra rep or so.

It would be great if we could partner up during my cycle, but alas he is a dedicated trainer and I would have to train only when he has a free space in between appointments. Whenever it works out, it is a rush.

I found an online source for Test enth 250mg/ml 10 ml ($60 each - $20 shipping = $200) which I plan to use. I am just waiting for them to send me the money wiring instructions. Too bad they are sold out of decent priced 5000 iu hCG. That’s another ingredient that I’ll have to find. There goes extra shipping charges…

[saps]

DH, sorry I missed this thread of yours the past few days. I wanted to make a few comments on your cycle. At your age I’m very glad you got the proviron and didn’t go with the Winny. Lately a few people seem to be steering guys towards winny if no proviron is available. IMO, winstrol is a joint killer. I will never use it. I know its popular with certain circles but at your age I’m just glad its not in your system. Masteron would be a better replacement if you need to cross that bridge ever. Good news is many, even most places carry proviron.

Regarding why most including myself don’t start proviron right from day one is need or lack of need. At your age and with the libido issues you previously mentioned its probably a good thing you are running it for your whole cycle. Nothing wrong with running it all cycle. Generally the extra test will kick the libido up a notch. Its not until after several weeks that many of us notice the test not doing what it did a month or six weeks ago.

Finally, you won’t notice any in the gym benefit with proviron; especially as a stand alone. So taking it before and after workouts is pointless from a workout enhancement or recovery perspective.

I’m not a big believer in the whole 17AA orals will kill your liver. I think its one of the biggest myths in the gear game. Having said that proviron is noted to be one of the least harmful orals out there. I’ve used proviron at 50mg concurrent with 50mg of dbol for many consecutive weeks without negative issues at all. No worries; literally.

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote]saps wrote:
DH, sorry I missed this thread of yours the past few days. I wanted to make a few comments on your cycle. At your age I’m very glad you got the proviron and didn’t go with the Winny. Lately a few people seem to be steering guys towards winny if no proviron is available. IMO, winstrol is a joint killer. I will never use it. I know its popular with certain circles but at your age I’m just glad its not in your system. Masteron would be a better replacement if you need to cross that bridge ever. Good news is many, even most places carry proviron.
[/quote]

It’s always a pleasure when you drop by. Thanks for the heads up on Winstrol. I have heard these Winstrol concerns before, but rarely as heartfelt. Gladly in my case, Test enth (250mg E3D),Dbol (3x10mg/d) kickstart, and Proviron at 2x25mg/d should be more than adequate to jolt my body into high “gear” for the duration of the cycle. Thanks for the Masteron reference too.

It is my intention to keep it simple, so I do not see myself availing of it. I am a big beleiver in “cherry picking” the best of what is available at a reasonable price so Masteron is definitely an option (having heard only good things about it) should the need arise.

Regarding why most including myself don’t start proviron right from day one is need or lack of need. At your age and with the libido issues you previously mentioned its probably a good thing you are running it for your whole cycle. Nothing wrong with running it all cycle. Generally the extra test will kick the libido up a notch. Its not until after several weeks that many of us notice the test not doing what it did a month or six weeks ago.

Yes, I am realizing more and more that each of us has our own hormonal balance with levels of all the key players varying widely. That makes it impossible to have one blanket solution that fits all. Instead each plan has to be tailor made for the individual in question. In my case Proviron makes a lot of sense throughout the cycle and also for HRT, for others that would be excessive in the scheme of cost vs benefits.

Finally, you won’t notice any in the gym benefit with proviron; especially as a stand alone. So taking it before and after workouts is pointless from a workout enhancement or recovery perspective.

Yes, I don’t even know if it’s worth ingesting the 2 25mg tabs at different times throughout the day. It’s more a matter of ensuring 50 mg is circulating each day. I guess the timing of 10 mg Dbol servings would be more important.

I do believe however, that for me, Proviron on its own could make a difference in the gym albeit measured and not immense. I say that because in my case merely reducing SHBG will boost my free testosterone. Increasing free T even a few notches can have a profound colective effect on one’s morale, energy level, libido, clarity of mind, LBM, body composition, quality of life, etc. over the long haul. I know that because I have experienced the flipside of all of the above and it ain’t a lot of fun!!

I’m not a big believer in the whole 17AA orals will kill your liver. I think its one of the biggest myths in the gear game. Having said that proviron is noted to be one of the least harmful orals out there. I’ve used proviron at 50mg concurrent with 50mg of dbol for many consecutive weeks without negative issues at all. No worries; literally.

Thanks for the confirmation on concurrent Dbol & Proviron use. It’s conforting to hear those with experience are in agreement with that opinion. As for the “17AAs will kill your liver”, I would imagine it is an an individual thing as well. If your liver is in less than peak shape from years of misuse or just a bum liver, you may be more sensitive to irritants than someone whose liver function is A1.

Like everything else, there are those that are genetically blessed in certain departments and those who struggle.

That said, you are right that the whole issue may be overstated.

[Brook1]

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:

I do believe however, that for me, Proviron on its own could make a difference in the gym albeit measured and not immense. I say that because in my case merely reducing SHBG will boost my free testosterone.

Increasing free T even a few notches can have a profound colective effect on one’s morale, energy level, libido, clarity of mind, LBM, body composition, quality of life, etc. over the long haul.

I know that because I have experienced the flipside of all of the above and it ain’t a lot of fun!!
[/quote]

You may be right on this, however the benefits are going to be systemic - dosing this drug before and after a workout is meaningless.

The benefits are a shightly raised free test level (hopefully) which should give you the benefits you listed to some unknown extent - but it isnt goint to give you a boost of test/androgen to fuel a workout or facilitate a speedy recovery - as i mentioned, it is a more all-over, systemic thing.

IIRC the half life is long enough so that one may take Proviron just once a day too.

JJ

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote] Brook wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:

I do believe however, that for me, Proviron on its own could make a difference in the gym albeit measured and not immense. I say that because in my case merely reducing SHBG will boost my free testosterone.

Increasing free T even a few notches can have a profound colective effect on one’s morale, energy level, libido, clarity of mind, LBM, body composition, quality of life, etc. over the long haul. I know that because I have experienced the flipside of all of the above and it ain’t a lot of fun!!

You may be right on this, however the benefits are going to be systemic - dosing this drug before and after a workout is meaningless.

The benefits are a shightly raised free test level (hopefully) which should give you the benefits you listed to some unknown extent - but it isnt goint to give you a boost of test/androgen to fuel a workout or facilitate a speedy recovery - as i mentioned, it is a more all-over, systemic thing.

IIRC the half life is long enough so that one may take Proviron just once a day too.

JJ[/quote]

Good to know about the half life. I know it won’t give me body building androgen levels. It is all a matter of degree. Key is to be moving in the right direction.

[Dynamo_Hum]

Well another day and no Proviron. My local source says tomorrow. Meanwhile, I am waiting (3 days now - ughhh!!) for the online source to send me money wiring instructions before putting in my order for test enanthate. They seem really desperate for orders, don’t they? Makes you wonder??

I have found 3 x 5000iu hCG vials for $80 at another mail order source, but their test is more pricey. Too bad I don’t know anyone with good quality at a decent price locally as it would avoid all these logistics. Oh well, best to be patient.

[saps]

DH, sorry to hear of your problems this is one reason a cardinal rule of any cycle is don’t start a cycle you don’t have ever item needed to finish it. I delayed the start of my own most recent cycle because I wanted to have some anastrozole on board. I have never needed it. In hindsight I never even cracked the bottle open but I know I made the right choice to wait.

Sadly, cases like yours are not uncommon. Split orders or delays are part of the game. Just think how bad it would be if you were mid cycle and were waiting on something whether its an ancillary or whatever.

Again for the future, don’t start a cycle you cannot finish as of day 1.

[saps]

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
They seem really desperate for orders, don’t they? Makes you wonder??
[/quote]

Most European based sources are dealing with a lot of things including the time zone gap. Half the emails and what not they receive during sleeping hours anyway. Even the best guys out there can take a day or three to get back to you. Just know that and go in with eyes wide open and you are less prone to surprises.

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote]saps wrote:
DH, sorry to hear of your problems this is one reason a cardinal rule of any cycle is don’t start a cycle you don’t have ever item needed to finish it. I delayed the start of my own most recent cycle because I wanted to have some anastrozole on board. I have never needed it. In hindsight I never even cracked the bottle open but I know I made the right choice to wait.

Sadly, cases like yours are not uncommon. Split orders or delays are part of the game. Just think how bad it would be if you were mid cycle and were waiting on something whether its an ancillary or whatever.

Again for the future, don’t start a cycle you cannot finish as of day 1.[/quote]

Hey Saps,

Thanks for stressing the importance of completly assembling a cycle before dipping into the cookie jar. I am a solid subscriber of that. In my case, I started with stand-alone Proviron simply for its SHBG reducing effects. I had not started my actual cycle and would not even think of doing so until everything is in place. It’s no real biggie that 3 days of Proviron usage has been interrupted (by one day only I hope - if it arrives today). My local source had given me 6 x 25mg tabs Proviron as a freebie while I waited for him to get his stock.

I actually picked up my anastazole first. Interesting that you and many don’t systematically start Adex at the beginning of a cycle, but instead wait for signs of elevated estrogen. I was planning on starting the Adex from week1 to maximize free testosterone throughout the cycle. Is that not the best strategy?

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote]saps wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
They seem really desperate for orders, don’t they? Makes you wonder??

Most European based sources are dealing with a lot of things including the time zone gap. Half the emails and what not they receive during sleeping hours anyway. Even the best guys out there can take a day or three to get back to you. Just know that and go in with eyes wide open and you are less prone to surprises.[/quote]

In one way it is good to know that slow responses are “par for the course”; in another way it is scary if this is an indication of how an order mixup would be handled. I guess I’m just not used to doing business in this manner.

Who knows, the delay may turn out in my favor if the source gets back to me and has restocked hCG, I’ll be able to pick up both at the same time and save on shipping and logistics. Might as well be optimistic and not stress over that which I have no control.

[saps]

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
In one way it is good to know that slow responses are “par for the course”; in another way it is scary if this is an indication of how an order mixup would be handled. I guess I’m just not used to doing business in this manner.

Who knows, the delay may turn out in my favor if the source gets back to me and has restocked hCG, I’ll be able to pick up both at the same time and save on shipping and logistics. Might as well be optimistic and not stress over that which I have no control.[/quote]

To call it suboptimal is understating it. But what are any of us going to do about it. We kinda have to play by the rules of this game. Mind you, some guys are slightly better or faster than others. Once you find someone who works for you most people stick

[saps]

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
I actually picked up my anastazole first. Interesting that you and many don’t systematically start Adex at the beginning of a cycle, but instead wait for signs of elevated estrogen. I was planning on starting the Adex from week1 to maximize free testosterone throughout the cycle. Is that not the best strategy?[/quote]

Yeah its a personal choice. KSMan is very educated on HRT/TRT matters and he would insist on an AI right from day 1 and he could provide you with a lot of science to explain why.
Myself I don’t need the AI’s for gyno control or prevention quite frankly. Also most people would ackowledge the likelihood that gains will always be reduced to a varying degree on an AI.
Some people just get gyno and some don’t it seems. There’s truly no way to tell if 200mg a week will give you gyno or if 2000mg a week won’t. You kind of have to find out what your own body needs and how it responds.

[Dynamo_Hum]

[quote]saps wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
I actually picked up my anastazole first. Interesting that you and many don’t systematically start Adex at the beginning of a cycle, but instead wait for signs of elevated estrogen. I was planning on starting the Adex from week1 to maximize free testosterone throughout the cycle. Is that not the best strategy?

saps wrote: Yeah its a personal choice. KSMan is very educated on HRT/TRT matters and he would insist on an AI right from day 1 and he could provide you with a lot of science to explain why.
Myself I don’t need the AI’s for gyno control or prevention quite frankly. Also most people would ackowledge the likelihood that gains will always be reduced to a varying degree on an AI.
Some people just get gyno and some don’t it seems. There’s truly no way to tell if 200mg a week will give you gyno or if 2000mg a week won’t. You kind of have to find out what your own body needs and how it responds.[/quote]

Interesting that you seem to be impervious to elevated estrogen. Especially seeing that Tren was in your mix. You are fortunate in that regard. To be honest with you, I am not really worried about gyno. I don’t think I would be prone to it judging by my body type (ecto, very lean). Also, my normal estrogen level is quite low (partly because my free test is low too, I’m sure). Of course that statement could come back to bite me in the ass in the form of a gyno flare-up.

I just feel that when testosterone raises it sets off a chain reaction which resets other hormone levels. One of those is of course estrogen, another is SHBG. In the past when my test levels rose dramatically, there was a corresponding raise in my estrogen level. In those cases estrogen did not raise to the level where it became a problem per se, however it seems clear that estrogen and test work at cross purposes and tend to cancel each other out to some degree. That is why it seems that cutting estrogen off at the pass before test levels raise dramatically should maximise the potency of raising testosterone.

About KSMan. He is a fantastic resource. I am fortunate to have consulted with him extensively.

[saps]

Impervious to elevated estrogen I like that
The imfamous morepain is on record as having used 3-4 grams of gear a week without gyno or an AI. Different sides hit people differently. Some get gyno, some get zits, some lose hair, some get BP issues. I guess we all just deal with the sides we get