Tesla Motors

Off Topic
81

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And what business in their right mind markets anything to the .000000001% of the population living in west Texas? People in west Texas wouldn’t buy a 62K car if it got 10K miles per charge and only took an hour to charge. 99% of the people doing the driving in this country don’t live in rural America. That’ why it’s called “rural” and not “urban”.[/quote]

Monsanto, Carghill, and John Deere seem to be doing quite well doing just that.

You’re basing your entire position on charging stations that don’t exist in the real world. Sorry, but a few experimental stations don’t count.

What about the folks living in apartments, or other rental properties who don’t have the luxury of a garage, or ready access to a plug?

At best, the Tesla is a niche product for a niche market - despite your orgasmic optimism.

And a regular charging station - wall outlet - takes 17 hours for a full charge. Unless Tesla can invent more hours in a day, it’s not feasible. LMAO - you act like Tesla is the first car company to try their hand at electrics. There’s a reason no one buys them: even a fool can see that they aren’t practical enough.

Which is probably why they’re such a hit on the hollywood circuit: they’re more stupid than your average fool.

There’s not a problem at all with them, or the flux capacitor, if you are willing to suspend reality. But I’ve already said that once.

u mad, bro? Y teh hate?
[/quote]

First of all, Monsanto, John Deere and Carghill are global brands. They’re making money in rural America. They’re also making money all over South and Central America. And they bear no comparison to Tesla since they target rural America, whereas Tesla can do just fine without ever targeting rural America. But nice try though.

What person renting an apartment is going to be buying a 62K luxury sedan? It’s not a niche product in a niche market. It’s the most popular product in a growing market whose demand comes from people with the money to spend. Criticizing Tesla for being inconvenient to those who can’t afford one anyways is the epitome of ignorance on the subject.

A regular wall outlet takes 17 hours to charge. So what? Virtually no one drives so many miles every single day that charging the thing for 17 full hours each night is necessary. Yes, it takes 17 hours to charge when dead. If you don’t drain the battery entirely, it’s much less. And it’s a new technology. You keep harping on the charging thing as if they aren’t working on improving it. Within the next couple years the supercharging technology will be available on a wide scale.

As far as it being a niche product, again, so what? It’s the dominant product in a growing market. All sorts of niche products make money. And what’s wrong with being popular amongst the Hollywood set? God forbid a company is popular amongst people with tons of dispensable income.

You can keep dreaming up all these unrealistic scenarios and call it reality all you want. You’ve been wrong on all counts so far, or you’ve been too short-sighted to realize that what is reality now won’t be in another year or so. Keep dreaming, pal.

82

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And what business in their right mind markets anything to the .000000001% of the population living in west Texas? People in west Texas wouldn’t buy a 62K car if it got 10K miles per charge and only took an hour to charge. 99% of the people doing the driving in this country don’t live in rural America. That’ why it’s called “rural” and not “urban”.[/quote]

Monsanto, Carghill, and John Deere seem to be doing quite well doing just that.

You’re basing your entire position on charging stations that don’t exist in the real world. Sorry, but a few experimental stations don’t count.

What about the folks living in apartments, or other rental properties who don’t have the luxury of a garage, or ready access to a plug?

At best, the Tesla is a niche product for a niche market - despite your orgasmic optimism.

And a regular charging station - wall outlet - takes 17 hours for a full charge. Unless Tesla can invent more hours in a day, it’s not feasible. LMAO - you act like Tesla is the first car company to try their hand at electrics. There’s a reason no one buys them: even a fool can see that they aren’t practical enough.

Which is probably why they’re such a hit on the hollywood circuit: they’re more stupid than your average fool.

There’s not a problem at all with them, or the flux capacitor, if you are willing to suspend reality. But I’ve already said that once.

u mad, bro? Y teh hate?
[/quote]

First of all, Monsanto, John Deere and Carghill are global brands. They’re making money in rural America. They’re also making money all over South and Central America. And they bear no comparison to Tesla since they target rural America, whereas Tesla can do just fine without ever targeting rural America. But nice try though.

What person renting an apartment is going to be buying a 62K luxury sedan? It’s not a niche product in a niche market. It’s the most popular product in a growing market whose demand comes from people with the money to spend. Criticizing Tesla for being inconvenient to those who can’t afford one anyways is the epitome of ignorance on the subject.

A regular wall outlet takes 17 hours to charge. So what? Virtually no one drives so many miles every single day that charging the thing for 17 full hours each night is necessary. Yes, it takes 17 hours to charge when dead. If you don’t drain the battery entirely, it’s much less. And it’s a new technology. You keep harping on the charging thing as if they aren’t working on improving it. Within the next couple years the supercharging technology will be available on a wide scale.

As far as it being a niche product, again, so what? It’s the dominant product in a growing market. All sorts of niche products make money. And what’s wrong with being popular amongst the Hollywood set? God forbid a company is popular amongst people with tons of dispensable income.

You can keep dreaming up all these unrealistic scenarios and call it reality all you want. You’ve been wrong on all counts so far, or you’ve been too short-sighted to realize that what is reality now won’t be in another year or so. Keep dreaming, pal.[/quote]

I agree. Nobody is going to need 17 hours to charge the battery because you won’t drain it unless on a road trip. In fact, there are a few automated battery change stations being tested in a pilot program. Basically, you drive into the change station and an automated process swaps out your battery for a different, fully charged and tested one.

These cars are the future because they eliminate a ton of waste and maintenance that an IC engine causes.

For credibility, I am an electrical engineer and have taken a class on electric/hybrid vehicles.

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Cooler than anything Tesla makes.

85

I found this interesting:

It’s good to see that they are already producing major components for other EV manufacturers, Pretty much guarantees that even when the competition heats up, they will still get a decent chunk of the pie. Depending on how much of the power train other manufacturers use, it’s essentially like people buying the body and brand of different auto makers with the same essential components.

86

[quote]Rattler wrote:
Cooler than anything Tesla makes. [/quote]

And they sell for dirt cheap now. Too bad about the company.

james

87

until coal stops being used for roughly 50% of electricity production it’s fucking stupid to buy an electric car for any reason other than being a smug liberal douche.

88

[quote]Aggv wrote:
until coal stops being used for roughly 50% of electricity production it’s fucking stupid to buy an electric car for any reason other than being a smug liberal douche. [/quote]

I’ve got a friend with a Volt and he’s saving money from having to buy gas. It’s not always about being green but it’s also about saving money now that gas is $5 a gallon.

james

89

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
until coal stops being used for roughly 50% of electricity production it’s fucking stupid to buy an electric car for any reason other than being a smug liberal douche. [/quote]

I’ve got a friend with a Volt and he’s saving money from having to buy gas. It’s not always about being green but it’s also about saving money now that gas is $5 a gallon.

james
[/quote]

Yeah, but once you are more “green”, it’s gonna cost you. Energy prices are relatively cheap because of coal. Wait until post 2015 and see how much you are saving then.

90

Has nothing to do with the stock, but today we had monsoon rains here in south florida, I saw a tesla s shorted out and stranded in water that wasn’t even up to the wheel hubs, you should have seen this ladies face. The battery packs on the car are lower than the hubs and the elec motors are right on the hubs, seems like they might need some more weather proofing.

91

[quote]Aggv wrote:
until coal stops being used for roughly 50% of electricity production it’s fucking stupid to buy an electric car for any reason other than being a smug liberal douche. [/quote]

This is the basic attitude of everyone who ignorantly hates on Tesla. People who are aggressively against Tesla as a company or the electric car as a product don’t hate on them because it makes sense or because they have an argument. They hate on them because Teslas are seen as a “liberal thing”. The criticism isn’t merit-based at all. You would hate on anything with a liberal connotation to it, regardless of what it was.

First of all, coal is used to produce about 42% of the country’s electricity, and has been dropping each year since about 2005. With more and more recent discoveries of accessible natural gas, coal is on its way out as the plurality source of electricity power.

Secondly, another reason to buy an electric car is the significant savings on your gas bill. The added electricity cost from charging the car doesn’t even approach the savings by not having to buy gas.

While it isn’t technically a zero-emissions car since they aren’t produced without emissions, they ARE a significant drop in emissions from what they compete with. BMWs, Mercedes and Audis that are in the same car class as the Model S all have a MUCH larger carbon footprint.

Another reason to buy a Tesla Model S is the driving experience. From everything I’ve heard and read, they are extremely fun vehicles to drive, more so than their competitors. Consumer Reports gave it the highest rating they’ve ever given a car for these reasons.

Yet another reason to buy the car is the savings on maintenance and repairs. There simply aren’t as many moving parts in an electric car that can break down. I guess I would be smug too though if everyone who hated on Teslas did so from the position of gross ignorance that you’ve done so from. They say ignorance is bliss, but the true feelings of bliss comes from hearing an ignorant twat making a fool of themselves like you’ve done and knowing that you’re not as stupid or hopeless as that guy is making himself look like.

92

[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
Has nothing to do with the stock, but today we had monsoon rains here in south florida, I saw a tesla s shorted out and stranded in water that wasn’t even up to the wheel hubs, you should have seen this ladies face. The battery packs on the car are lower than the hubs and the elec motors are right on the hubs, seems like they might need some more weather proofing.[/quote]

Monsoon rains can do damage to regular cars as well. Weather events in general can wreak havoc on any car. Not buying an electric car for that reason is kinda stupid since it can happen to any car on the road. The specifics of the event and what goes wrong on the car as a result might be different, but the possibility that something goes wrong remains with ALL cars.

93

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I found this interesting:

It’s good to see that they are already producing major components for other EV manufacturers, Pretty much guarantees that even when the competition heats up, they will still get a decent chunk of the pie. Depending on how much of the power train other manufacturers use, it’s essentially like people buying the body and brand of different auto makers with the same essential components.

[/quote]

This reminds me of Vibram. Vibram, a tiny shoe company comes along with an innovative idea that takes off. Now they are raking in even more because big shoe companies like New Balance are buying their soles to make shoes. It’s really great for a company when their competitors are paying them. Tesla’s competitors are paying them for tax credits and for drive trains.

94

Electric cars are the beta tapes, laser disc, hd DVD until we figure out hydrogen.

And if I wanted to buy a small impractical sports cars that’s also very economical to own, I’d get an Elise or S2000. Which I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to afford all the gas and maintenance you’ll ever need with the price difference. Or you could put a turbo on the S2000 and buy a winter beater for the difference. It’ll just be a different conversation at the dinner parties, which to some ppl would be an issue.

95

Electric cars are the beta tapes, laser disc, hd DVD until we figure out hydrogen.

And if I wanted to buy a small impractical sports cars that’s also very economical to own, I’d get an Elise or S2000. Which I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to afford all the gas and maintenance you’ll ever need with the price difference. Or you could put a turbo on the S2000 and buy a winter beater for the difference. It’ll just be a different conversation at the dinner parties, which to some ppl would be an issue.

96

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Electric cars are the beta tapes, laser disc, hd DVD until we figure out hydrogen.

And if I wanted to buy a small impractical sports cars that’s also very economical to own, I’d get an Elise or S2000. Which I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to afford all the gas and maintenance you’ll ever need with the price difference. Or you could put a turbo on the S2000 and buy a winter beater for the difference. It’ll just be a different conversation at the dinner parties, which to some ppl would be an issue. [/quote]

Do you know ANYTHING about the Tesla Model S or the Roadster?

The Model S is not a small sports car, so why you would buy an Elise or an S2000 instead is irrelevant since they aren’t nearly the same sort of car. Model S’ are more like 6-series BMWs or full-sized Audis and Mercedes. They’re full-sized luxury sedans and about 85% of what Tesla is selling.

And if you were in the market for a sports car and you were choosing between an S2000, an Elise or the Roadster and you didn’t choose the Roadster, you’d be buying a car that is significantly slower than the Roadster. They don’t even make the S2000 anymore and the Elise is about 20K cheaper than the Roadster and a complete dog compared to the Roadster. The Roadster does 0-60 and the 1/4 mile in about 2 less seconds than those cars.

97

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Electric cars are the beta tapes, laser disc, hd DVD until we figure out hydrogen.

And if I wanted to buy a small impractical sports cars that’s also very economical to own, I’d get an Elise or S2000. Which I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to afford all the gas and maintenance you’ll ever need with the price difference. Or you could put a turbo on the S2000 and buy a winter beater for the difference. It’ll just be a different conversation at the dinner parties, which to some ppl would be an issue. [/quote]

I wouldn’t hold your breath on hydrogen, we might be onto other power sources by the time that gets into production.

I kinda agree on electric cars but I’m thinking that they will make some big advances with electric to make them more practical and affordable.

I disagree about the practicality of the Tesla though. It’s a four door sedan that’s got plenty of room in it. It’s a totally different experience than an S2000. The market is totally different too. I’ve got a buddy with a blue GT-R who’s looking at also buying a Tesla. He likes the Tesla for some of the same reasons he likes the GT-R. Namely the technology. And he’s most definitely not a liberal.

james

98

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Electric cars are the beta tapes, laser disc, hd DVD until we figure out hydrogen.

[/quote]

In the mean time electric cars are viable now and will go mass market over the next ten years. With Tesla being the leader.

99

Db, the tesla was stranded in less than 10" of water, again it wasn’t even up to the wheel hubs. Conversely I was in our mkx plowing through 18"-24" of water with no issue, my fiancé drove through the same depth of water or deeper as the tesla in our mkz. Flat out they are not comparable to ICE cars in weather, if you want I will upload the pictures of corollas and saabs going through deeper water without issue.

100

Some of my thoughts:

As a car guy, I know that the smell of gasoline and the sound of a car’s exhaust are undeniably intertwined with the mystique surrounding the automobile. My gut tells me that I don’t want to live in a world where a Ferrari sounds like my mom’s sewing machine. That being said, we already live in a world of electric cars, what we’re really talking about here is electric propulsion. We no longer have ignition points, we have electronic ignitions. An entry level sedan has enough electronics to have controlled the first space shuttle.

Manufacturers are moving towards electric power steering, electric ABS, electromagnetic suspension, etc. Every area of the auto has moved away from mechanical controls and towards electronic or electrical-based controls. It’s ignorant to think that propulsion won’t move in the same direction.

As an enthusiast, I look forward to the flat torque curve, the potential for a lower center of gravity, the potential for an overall lighter auto as battery technology progresses, and the new shapes designers are going to develop as they don’t have to accommodate an IC engine. I think the idea of each wheel having it’s own motor is terribly exciting.

That being said, I don’t think Tesla will be the company that brings us to this point. I think the existing major car companies have the dealer networks in place, the tooling for most of the car already written down, the R&D departments, the parts distributorships, etc…everything else that goes into 1) developing a car, 2) safety testing it, 3) bringing it to market and then marketing it, and 4) servicing the vehicle for both in and out of warranty claims.

Lastly, the move towards electric propulsion won’t come at the passenger car level. There are too many problems with range, charging stations, etc. It will start with fleet vehicles that do a days worth of short trips like UPS and Fed Ex trucks. These vehicles then go back to a central garage where they can be charged and serviced by specially trained mechanics.

I wouldn’t buy an electric car right now because there are next to no independent mechanics who are qualified to work on them. Another generation of mechanics will have to be trained before electric certified garages are as common as they need to be for consumer acceptance.