Did anybody think that the T-600 was just fucking awesome? I want more open warfare and see the T-600 all over teh landscape.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
you guys have far too high expectations for a movie. [/quote]
I see where you are coming from Steven but u gotta understand:
They took the name “terminator” as “title recognition” to draw in more viewers. Without it been called “terminator” and marketed as such 1/2 the people would have showed up, and there would have been 0 “fuzz” about it.
Last time I went to see a movie was when the Dark Knight came out. I went to see T4 because T2 has been my favorite movie since I was 8 years old. The LEAST the director can do is make movie T4 as good as T2.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
SPOILERS
We’d already had Bad T-800 Terminator; Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal Terminator; and Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal/Metal Exoskeleton And She’s Female Terminator.
Also it would have been great to see a smile (not a cheesy one) in John Connors face when he sees the T-800 for the 1st time. He knows he is in trouble, but for a second he should have shown joy. After all Arnie’s death was a major emotional even for him in T2. (Sarah Connor even hinted of Arnie being like a father)
[/quote]
Correction: In T2, Arnold calls himself the T-101.
SPOILER***
I totally agree about the cheesy-smile.
Bale had so much potential based on recent films and impressions of him as an action star, but he was really shackled by a shitty script. I did not believe that this John Connor in T4 was some sort of prophet or badass. Marcus was the badass in this film.
The love story was STUPID.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
SPOILER
baretta wrote:
They should take a hint from T2 on character and story development. Trim the fat, keep what matters.
In T2, they could trim the fat – dialogue was really quite sparse – because there was Arnold carrying the movie.
I have no means of evaluating “acting ability” or defining what it means and am not discussing that. I am sure by most definitions that is not what I’m talking about. However in terms of charisma and riveting your attention, no one in Terminator Salvation is the equivalent of Arnold’s presence in T2. (Few movies have such.)
For that matter he STILL, via CGI, had the most charisma and presence in the movie.
I don’t think it would have worked very well being as lean as T2 was.[/quote]
wowowowwowowowww… hold on there
T2 was a good MOVIE. Arnold was a + in it, but he was not the deciding factor of the awesomeness of the movie. The movie was good because James Cameron knew what he was doing, and he spent time thinking and working on the script.
I mean just look at T3, Arnold was in it, yet the movie blew dick.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a good movie. It was.
But I do think it was able to be so lean due to the charisma factor. With actors of only average charisma attention would not have been held with so sparse a script. Personal opinion.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
We’d already had Bad T-800 Terminator; Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal Terminator; and Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal/Metal Exoskeleton And She’s Female Terminator.
Correction: In T2, Arnold calls himself the T-101.
[/quote]
He is a Series T-800 Model 101.
This is why either number may be used and has been used as the descriptor.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Correction: In T2, Arnold calls himself the T-101.
He is a Series T-800 Model 101.
This is why either number may be used and has been used as the descriptor.[/quote]
Damn, I just got geek-bitch e-slapped!
Good call, sir.
I know it’s wiki, but perhaps this will clear up the T-800 Model 101 thing.
[i]Character nomenclature
The end credits of the first three Terminator films list Schwarzenegger’s character as simply “The Terminator”. Later films call the newer terminator characters by their series numbers (T-1000, T-X, etc.). The only consistent name for Schwarzenegger’s Terminator character has been “The Terminator”. Kyle Reese in The Terminator and Schwarzenegger’s character in Terminator 2 refer to it as a “Cyberdyne Systems Model 101.” In Terminator 3, the Terminator refers to itself as a “T-101,” which could be an abbreviation of its model number.
However, other sources contradict this designation. In Terminator Salvation, the T2 Extreme Edition DVD, and the Terminator 2 video game for the Sega Genesis he is referred to as an 800 series and a T-800.[2] The T3 extras refer to him as an “850 series Model 101”, a “T-850”, and a “T-101”.
Additionally, most merchandising for T2 and Terminator 3 - both at the time of their original releases and retroactively - (e.g. Action Masters miniatures, Cinemaquette statues, Sideshow Collectables replicas, Hollywood Collectibles statuettes, ArtFX kits, Medicom figures, Hot Toys, and McFarlane Toys) have all used the T-800 and T-850 nomenclature, contributing to this designation having arguably the most popular and widely-disseminated usage, especially in direct juxtaposition to the explicitly named T-600s and T-1000.
In the T2 commentary, Cameron states that the Model 101s all look like Schwarzenegger, with a 102 looking like someone else, leading to speculation that the 101 refers to the physical appearance while the 800 refers to the endoskeleton common to many models. A scene deleted from the theatrical cut, but restored in the Terminator 2 Special Edition, lends the most credence to this explanation. In this scene, John and Sarah shut down The Terminator for modification according to his instructions. When he reboots, the upper-left of his HUD reads “Cyberdyne Systems Series 800 Model 101 Version 2.4”. Additionally, the original Terminator 2 teaser trailer further verifies this on a display monitor during cyborg tissue generation, referencing the Series 800 Model 101.
The current, most widely-accepted nomenclature seems to indicate that the Terminator from the first two films is a T-800 series, model 101, while the character from T3 is a T-850 model 101 (model number referring to the outer skin type, whereas the series, or T, number refers to the chassis or endoskeleton.)[/i]
[quote]AngryVader wrote:
I know it’s wiki, but perhaps this will clear up the T-800 Model 101 thing.
[i]Character nomenclature
The end credits of the first three Terminator films list Schwarzenegger’s character as simply “The Terminator”. Later films call the newer terminator characters by their series numbers (T-1000, T-X, etc.). The only consistent name for Schwarzenegger’s Terminator character has been “The Terminator”. Kyle Reese in The Terminator and Schwarzenegger’s character in Terminator 2 refer to it as a “Cyberdyne Systems Model 101.” In Terminator 3, the Terminator refers to itself as a “T-101,” which could be an abbreviation of its model number.
However, other sources contradict this designation. In Terminator Salvation, the T2 Extreme Edition DVD, and the Terminator 2 video game for the Sega Genesis he is referred to as an 800 series and a T-800.[2] The T3 extras refer to him as an “850 series Model 101”, a “T-850”, and a “T-101”.
Additionally, most merchandising for T2 and Terminator 3 - both at the time of their original releases and retroactively - (e.g. Action Masters miniatures, Cinemaquette statues, Sideshow Collectables replicas, Hollywood Collectibles statuettes, ArtFX kits, Medicom figures, Hot Toys, and McFarlane Toys) have all used the T-800 and T-850 nomenclature, contributing to this designation having arguably the most popular and widely-disseminated usage, especially in direct juxtaposition to the explicitly named T-600s and T-1000.
In the T2 commentary, Cameron states that the Model 101s all look like Schwarzenegger, with a 102 looking like someone else, leading to speculation that the 101 refers to the physical appearance while the 800 refers to the endoskeleton common to many models. A scene deleted from the theatrical cut, but restored in the Terminator 2 Special Edition, lends the most credence to this explanation. In this scene, John and Sarah shut down The Terminator for modification according to his instructions. When he reboots, the upper-left of his HUD reads “Cyberdyne Systems Series 800 Model 101 Version 2.4”. Additionally, the original Terminator 2 teaser trailer further verifies this on a display monitor during cyborg tissue generation, referencing the Series 800 Model 101.
The current, most widely-accepted nomenclature seems to indicate that the Terminator from the first two films is a T-800 series, model 101, while the character from T3 is a T-850 model 101 (model number referring to the outer skin type, whereas the series, or T, number refers to the chassis or endoskeleton.)[/i][/quote]
Well, isn’t that just a copout disguised as a cluster fuck…
T-800 to me means MODEL number, there was no mention ever that models could be delineated by skin type and therefore have a separate number associated with various skin types.
They simply fucked up.
Watch T3 closely. When Arnold reboots, in his internal text displays it briefly displays Model 800 Series 101. (EDIT: Oops, I see that there’s an above post already saying that.)
I don’t know how Cameron’s take on this cannot be considered authoritative, especially as this is fiction and he is the creator, or what is so unreasonable about the idea of a machine having both series and model numbers.
The system also seems reasonable to me. In T1, after his flesh is burned off, Arnold has the same metal structure (to the eye anyway) as the non-fleshed Terminators seen in the brief images of the future. So while in principle he might have been an all-new design, it appears that he is a development of an existing general design. Why not that all Terminators with that internal structure are T-800’s, but those that are fleshed out have a different model number than those that are not?
It’s very common for the creator or creators to have many details about their “world” figured out that don’t appear in a given film or episode. Particularly given that Arnold has only a few hundred words of dialogue in each of the first two movies. What, if something wasn’t said therefore it cannot be so? I don’t think it unreasonable that Cameron had it conceived that way as he says. It also makes the T-1000 nomenclature a quite logical and reasonable follow-on for a series produced not much after.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
you guys have far too high expectations for a movie. [/quote]
Yes, I definitely do. It is frustrating when the first two of the series were two of the best movies I have ever seen, and every one since has been severely lacking.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It also makes the T-1000 nomenclature a quite logical and reasonable follow-on for a series produced not much after.
[/quote]
Aren’t model numbers kind of a human creation? I mean, would machines label their models like humans? T-800 to T-1,000? Sounds like a marketing concept.
It’s fiction.
Go too far into it and there would be a lot of practical and other problems in the supposed Skynet-controlled world.
Cameron came up with numbers for the human audience. Skynet doesn’t exist and didn’t come up with anything.
Yes, the Terminator movie series is a human creation.
So as to what is “true” with regard to that fiction is what is in the fiction itself. Where they have these numbers.
But if we want to have an explanation for it, we have no knowledge of how Skynet was created. Perhaps, like Daystrom’s M-5 computer, Cyberdyne modeled it on the human mind. If nothing else, that explanation would account for it being possible for Skynet to build Terminators that are able to act and function pretty close to human. That would be a lot harder for an intelligence that had never been anything but binary ordinary-computer-type programs but just became more sophisticated or developed.
Are there any videos of the CG Arnold around the net yet?
I won’t be seeing the movie for a couple of days but really want to see Arnie’s part.
I’d really suggest not spoiling it. It’s a highlight of the movie. When I saw it, it was clear that at least the great majority of the audience found it THE highlight of the movie.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
I’d really suggest not spoiling it. It’s a highlight of the movie. When I saw it, it was clear that at least the great majority of the audience found it THE highlight of the movie.
definitely THE highlight. I really wanted to pause it to check out the cgi when it showed his face, but of course I was at the movies. Looked like they did a pre plastic surgery Arnold, with his old jawline, etc.
[/quote]
It was Arnold’s face from T1.
The model designation nomenclature makes sense to me, but a question:
From the first film, in Reese’s flash-forward when he returns to the Resistance tunnel after being on patrol, and a Terminator who does not look like Arnold busts in with a minigun; is it fair to assume that this is a different model T-800, say, a T-102?
[quote]CoreyK wrote:
The model designation nomenclature makes sense to me, but a question:
From the first film, in Reese’s flash-forward when he returns to the Resistance tunnel after being on patrol, and a Terminator who does not look like Arnold busts in with a minigun; is it fair to assume that this is a different model T-800, say, a T-102?[/quote]
That was the Franco model T-800. 
EDIT: Seriously though, it was a 102.
Regarding terminator nomenclature, I have a screenshot from T2 where you can see his HUD. Would it be against the rules to post this screenshot? This scene is about 1 hour and 12 minutes into the film (the scene where John and Sarah cut into his head).
From the HUD, you can see that particular unit is called a “Series 800 Model 101, Version 2.4.”
From the T2 Ultimate Edition 2 disk DVD set, there was a documentary where Cameron stated that the model number represents the organic covering while the series number represents the hardware underneath. Think of it like this:
The Original PS1 was bulkier than the slimmer PS1 released later on. They both are PS1’s (basically the same hardware underneath, same series number), but each have a different covering (different model numbers). Think of the original, bulkier PS1 as representing a T-800 model 101 (T-800 that looks like Schwarzenegger) while the slimmer PS1 as representing a T-800 model whatever-number-was-Robert-Patrick’s-covering.
Continuing with the analogy, the PS2 being the successor to the PS1, we can say the PS2 is to the PS1 as the series 1000 terminator is to the series 800 terminator. There was a bulky PS2 and a slimmer PS2. Both are PS2s but each has a different look. The bulkier PS2 could represent a T-1000 model 101 (T-1000 terminator that looks like Schwarzenegger) while the slim PS2 could be a T-1000 model whatever-number-was-Robert-Patrick’s-appearance.
EDIT: am I making sense?
Yes, except that I believe you meant Franco in your first reference to Robert Patrick. And I believe we only ever saw one T-1000, and no T-1000 has an organic outer covering. Any T-1000 could look like Arnold if it desired, or at least could after touching him.