Terminator Salvation Discussion Thread

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101

[quote]doogie wrote:
SPOILERS***********************************************

IAlso, the whole movie was a buildup to destroying skynet, but when they do they say skynet is still strong globally. They whole movie is like a buildup to the war, but it turns out to be a minor battle. big deal.

[/quote]

I think one thing a lot of people are missing about this and Marcus is that it shows the evolution of connor into the hardened badass leader of the resistance… He was NOT in charge in this movie in terms of rank / telling people what to do… However, you see that the actual troops on the ground respect him and get where he is coming from… I really appreciated them having him listening to the tapes his mom mad as that was such a big part of the ending of t1…

Also, when reese says “come with me if you want to live” loved that…

102

[quote]Malevolence wrote:

I think a lot of these issues could be cured if Skynet was developed more as a character. There seems to be a very large disconnect with how ruthless Skynet is painted as being compared to how seemingly ineffectual they are with their schemes and robot designs. Some added element of motivation or explanation for why/how Sknet thinks could help quite a bit I think.

[/quote]

x2. A good plot point could be why Skynet doesn’t resort to bio or chem warfare, ie does not want to make humans extinct maybe. But, then it may look too much like BG.

103

SPOILER*

I loved it. Im going as far to say that I loved it more than the third one and even…-gasp- maybe the 2nd one. To me the absolute greatest Terminator movie thats going to be the best is that of the first one. Kyle Reese is the most well developed character and will play a pivotal point in the sequel. Hopefully,the 2nd one will be farther into the future as 40 Watt Phased Plasma Rifle havent even been introduced yet and HK still look like the ones in the 3rd one.

I ahve a theory that the 6th and last one will probally close with Kyle Reese being sent back to the 1980s to protect Sarah O`Connor as the war comes to a close and the last resort for the Machiens was to sent the last terminator before being defeated. Im abit dissapointed that there wasent enough gore. I honestly wanted to see peoples being shoved into ovens like how Kyle Reese described it in the first Terminator. It would probally be awesome too if there was an actual open battle scene like the beginning of Saving Private Ryan. I really love Arnolds cameos too. I was actually really happy and surprised taht they managed to make him look so young. That brought up a good nostalgic moment.

104

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
Obligatory spoiler alert

The guy they cast to play Kyle was kind of annoying, but it didn’t detract too much. I just didn’t like him.[/quote]

This is the same actor who played Chekov in Star Trek, if anyone’s interested.

105

— Spoiler Alert ----
Awesome special effects. But in a world of man vs. machines, they didn’t really bring up too much of what it means to be human, or really make me feel like it is better to be human. Because Marcus was pretty awesome and he was 99% cyborg. I was thinking: “So it’s better to have a partial human brain in a robot?” John Connor just came off as more of a jerk in this one; I thought Marcus was better suited to lead than he was. I guess I just think they could have brought a lot of thought proving issues along with the incredible fight scenes.

106

Movie was OK… something to see once, buy the DVD when it comes out, and see it a couple of times. Then let it gather dust.

I really don’t care much about the whole overarching story, tying this even to that even in a previous movie. Remember, the overarching story is NOT what made T2 epic (a movie you can watch over and over and over). T2 was really a stand alone movie. It had few things from T1.

In my opinion the director and writer spent too much time thinking how to tie this movie with the previous movies and setting up for the following movies that they got lazy on the script of this movie.

If anything this movie should have been about:
-how John Connor develops as a character into a grizzled, no-nonsense resistance leader,
-I remember from T1 how the T800 model was an infiltration unit that was hard to spot becuase they had live tissue, and the resistance had to use dogs. This should have been expanded on. How the resistance is weak, with shitty leadership, unorganized and John Connor getting it together.

basically make T4 about T4.
Not make T4 a movie that ties back to T1 and T2 with some new “twists” to it. Nor make T4 a set up for T5+6 with added twists. (ala Matrix 2&3)

-Also,there were a lot more skulls and broken cars in LA.

--------------Some SPOILERS-----------------------

So, was it really needed to have Marcus? And make him be some kind of new “twist” to the story of him being an infiltration unit??? no
—not the say the character kicked ass.

Do we really need those shadows of men standing over the big white window? no
–this stupid twist to the twist and it detracts from good movie writing/making.

Also it would have been great to see a smile (not a cheesy one) in John Connors face when he sees the T-800 for the 1st time. He knows he is in trouble, but for a second he should have shown joy. After all Arnie’s death was a major emotional even for him in T2. (Sarah Connor even hinted of Arnie being like a father)

Finally this movie copy and pasted too many things from T1 and T2. It made it look cheesy, as if trying to assemble parts that don’t quite fit.
-Only Arnold gets to say “I’ll be back” and “Come with me if you want to live”, nobody else gets to say that.

107

SPOILER________________

oh I forgot…

why the fuck does skynet know about Reese???
–another stupid twist

108

[quote]Neospartan wrote:

--------------Some SPOILERS-----------------------

-Only Arnold gets to say “I’ll be back” and “Come with me if you want to live”, nobody else gets to say that.

[/quote]

That’s not correct. Kyle Reese said it first in T1. The very first thing he says to Sarah in T1 was “Come with me if you want to live.” That’s why it was significant when the T-800 (Arnold) said the same line to Sarah in T2.

109

[quote]FrankNStang wrote:
Malevolence wrote:

I think a lot of these issues could be cured if Skynet was developed more as a character. There seems to be a very large disconnect with how ruthless Skynet is painted as being compared to how seemingly ineffectual they are with their schemes and robot designs. Some added element of motivation or explanation for why/how Sknet thinks could help quite a bit I think.

x2. A good plot point could be why Skynet doesn’t resort to bio or chem warfare, ie does not want to make humans extinct maybe. But, then it may look too much like BG.[/quote]

If you watched The Sarah Connor Chronicles, there was an episode about Skynet using bio warfare. Some were immune.

Reese says in T1 that Skynet would keep humans alive in work camps. This was also mentioned again in TSCC.

110

I liked the movie, found it redeemed the failing T3 movie.

111

SPOILERS

[quote]Neospartan wrote:

So, was it really needed to have Marcus? And make him be some kind of new “twist” to the story of him being an infiltration unit??? no[/quote]

Myself, I thought this was very well done.

We’d already had Bad T-800 Terminator; Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal Terminator; and Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal/Metal Exoskeleton And She’s Female Terminator.

Marcus was a much more interesting twist on a new kind of Terminator.

Why would it have been better to have a, yawn, same-old same-old, or truly-brain-dead-variation main Terminator character?

(If the T3 folk had been in charge, probably would have been a liquid-metal-over-flesh-over-metal transgendered Terminator. Which we didn’t need.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

What? He knows or at least certainly expects it’s a totally different unit.

Especially because at a glance it looks different. Younger-looking than the Terminators he knew at the very least.

Didn’t you just say that Connor had real attachment to the good T-800 Terminators? So why wouldn’t he quote them at a suitable moment?

112

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
Neospartan wrote:

--------------Some SPOILERS-----------------------

-Only Arnold gets to say “I’ll be back” and “Come with me if you want to live”, nobody else gets to say that.

That’s not correct. Kyle Reese said it first in T1. The very first thing he says to Sarah in T1 was “Come with me if you want to live.” That’s why it was significant when the T-800 (Arnold) said the same line to Sarah in T2.[/quote]

dang it ur right.

113

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
SPOILERS

Neospartan wrote:

So, was it really needed to have Marcus? And make him be some kind of new “twist” to the story of him being an infiltration unit??? no

Myself, I thought this was very well done.

We’d already had Bad T-800 Terminator; Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal Terminator; and Good T-800 Terminator vs Bad Liquid Metal/Metal Exoskeleton And She’s Female Terminator.

Marcus was a much more interesting twist on a new kind of Terminator.

Why would it have been better to have a, yawn, same-old same-old, or truly-brain-dead-variation main Terminator character?

(If the T3 folk had been in charge, probably would have been a liquid-metal-over-flesh-over-metal transgendered Terminator. Which we didn’t need.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

…
[/quote]

I know Marcus was great. Thats not my argument.

My issue is with the writer/director spending their brain cells on how to make “twists & turns” to the overall story, instead of making a good stand alone film. (They know they are being measured by the public againts the standard set by T2, not T1 nor T3, nor the Sarah Cronicles stuff. So they better focus on making a good film).

Marcus is (unfortunately) a character resulting from those twists to the overall story. Instead had the writer+director focus on writing a good script for a stand alone T4 film, Marcus would probably not have been in it.

114

SPOILER and PROFANITY ALERT

Marcus was a bitch. I didn’t buy him being able to handle the T800 at the end. He didn’t display any crazy superhuman strength at any other point in the movie, yet all of a sudden he’s able to rip an obviously bigger and more robust terminator’s head off? Nope, bullshit. And if the T800 sensed the weakness of his human heart, why wouldn’t it just rip it the fuck out like Arnold did at the beginning of T1? Would a futuristic killing machine really be that slow of a learner?

Also the director McDicklicking Fuckbag had to ruin 1/6 of this movie with a pointless motherfucking love story. Yeah, we get it, he has human emotions and can “feel.” Fucking great, and thanks for making me sit through 20 minutes of horrible acting from MoonGod Stormwind or whatever the fuck her name is when I could have been watching Batman fuck up terminators during that time. I’d much rather watch a talentless actress breathlessly cry “but I just see a MAN” instead of watching the savior of mankind shoot robots in the face. Congratulations McBitchface, you really had your target demographic nailed.

Fuck this movie, seriously.

115

SPOILER

Yeah, it was dubious that Marcus’ heart wouldn’t have been simply ripped out; and also I thought that Connor, NOT being the leader of the resistance, but just by virtue of making inspiring radio broadcasts and getting a rumor started about himself that he’s the Messiah (who else would have started it?) would be able to get every military unit to defy the orders of their legitimate commander.

From just saying on the radio that following orders would make them like the machines, and give me time to save our future. Right, every military officer is going to disobey the actual leader thanx to that broadcast.

That was weak.

But overall the movie was good, to my taste anyway.

116

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
SPOILER and PROFANITY ALERT

Marcus was a bitch. I didn’t buy him being able to handle the T800 at the end. He didn’t display any crazy superhuman strength at any other point in the movie, yet all of a sudden he’s able to rip an obviously bigger and more robust terminator’s head off? Nope, bullshit. And if the T800 sensed the weakness of his human heart, why wouldn’t it just rip it the fuck out like Arnold did at the beginning of T1? Would a futuristic killing machine really be that slow of a learner?

Also the director McDicklicking Fuckbag had to ruin 1/6 of this movie with a pointless motherfucking love story. Yeah, we get it, he has human emotions and can “feel.” Fucking great, and thanks for making me sit through 20 minutes of horrible acting from MoonGod Stormwind or whatever the fuck her name is when I could have been watching Batman fuck up terminators during that time. I’d much rather watch a talentless actress breathlessly cry “but I just see a MAN” instead of watching the savior of mankind shoot robots in the face. Congratulations McBitchface, you really had your target demographic nailed.

Fuck this movie, seriously.[/quote]

Eggfuckingzackly

They should take a hint from T2 on character and story development. Trim the fat, keep what matters.

117

you guys have far too high expectations for a movie.

118

SPOILER

[quote]baretta wrote:

They should take a hint from T2 on character and story development. Trim the fat, keep what matters.[/quote]

In T2, they could trim the fat – dialogue was really quite sparse – because there was Arnold carrying the movie.

I have no means of evaluating “acting ability” or defining what it means and am not discussing that. I am sure by most definitions that is not what I’m talking about. However in terms of charisma and riveting your attention, no one in Terminator Salvation is the equivalent of Arnold’s presence in T2. (Few movies have such.)

For that matter he STILL, via CGI, had the most charisma and presence in the movie.

I don’t think it would have worked very well being as lean as T2 was.

119

[quote]MODOK wrote:

Well, in order to do that, you’ll have to see them send back Reese, send back the second T-800, have John Connor assassinated by the third T-800, have Catherine Brewster reprogram that T-800 and send them back. Which begs the question… if they have time travel, after the T-800 assassinates John Connor, why not just go back in time to right before he assassinates him ( travel back what 10 minutes?) and prevent it? Since we like sending people back in time and all.[/quote]

Actually that one seems not too hard to reconcile.

From T1 (as well as T2 and T3) it’s plain that the time travel ability is extremely limited. That is why Skynet sent only one Terminator, and why the resistance was able to send only one soldier back. Wouldn’t they have sent more if they could? Reese said they couldn’t, if I recall correctly.

We know nothing of how it is (supposedly) done. It might be rather like what the Manhattan Project was in terms of difficulty in producing atom bombs. Perhaps there’s a material that is consumed that is extremely hard to obtain, or required equipment that is destroyed in the process and only limited stocks exist and great resources would be required to build more.

It’s fair to say that T1 established that it’s not a trival process to send someone back. Hence, the “After Connor is killed by the T3 Terminator, just send someone back 10 minutes to avoid it” I think was established as an infeasible sort of thing.

120

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
Obligatory spoiler alert

The guy they cast to play Kyle was kind of annoying, but it didn’t detract too much. I just didn’t like him.
[/quote]

The actor that played Kyle Reese is the same kid that played Chekov in Star Trek.

I agree there needs to be more character development of SkyNet. Why won’t SkyNet resort to bio or chem warfare? Do they want to maintain humans at some level?