[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Revolvers have come up recently in the forum, so, let’s talk about them some for…
… HD/CCW use
… as a Mil/paramil side-arm
… Competition shooting
… Collecting/for fun
All those particular uses require different setups/guns, and then there’s the question of whether a revolver makes more sense as a choice than other available options etc… So DD, Jewbacca and tom63 (if they want to join us), let’s hear your thoughts.
Advantages, disadvantages, whatever you want.
I’ll join in later.
[/quote]
I’ve never ever jammed a revolver and every semi-auto jams eventually.
Iâ??m also much more accurate on my .357 mag when firing single action out target shooting than any other pistol I’ve fired.
Personally, I just think there is something cooler about a revolver. Could you imagine Dirty Harry with a Berretta or a Glock?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Revolvers have come up recently in the forum, so, let’s talk about them some for…
… HD/CCW use
… as a Mil/paramil side-arm
… Competition shooting
… Collecting/for fun
All those particular uses require different setups/guns, and then there’s the question of whether a revolver makes more sense as a choice than other available options etc… So DD, Jewbacca and tom63 (if they want to join us), let’s hear your thoughts.
Advantages, disadvantages, whatever you want.
I’ll join in later.
[/quote]
I’ve never ever jammed a revolver and every semi-auto jams eventually.
[/quote] Really? Every revolver I’ve ever fired jams roughly every 5-6 shots… Lucky you hahaha
All kidding aside, with no limp-wristing and the right ammunition choice and well-maintained mags (and the right gun, of course), I’ve never really had much trouble with jamming semis. But then, I don’t shoot pistols all that much either…
Eastwood wasn’t exactly in mortal danger on the set… And his revolver had a “death ray 5000” modification, too…
And tbh, I was never much into the whole western thing, so the coolness factor doesn’t really do it for me.
There are way more factors to consider, of course, will get into that later.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Revolvers have come up recently in the forum, so, let’s talk about them some for…
… HD/CCW use
… as a Mil/paramil side-arm
… Competition shooting
… Collecting/for fun
All those particular uses require different setups/guns, and then there’s the question of whether a revolver makes more sense as a choice than other available options etc… So DD, Jewbacca and tom63 (if they want to join us), let’s hear your thoughts.
Advantages, disadvantages, whatever you want.
I’ll join in later.
[/quote]
I’ve never ever jammed a revolver and every semi-auto jams eventually.
[/quote] Really? Every revolver I’ve ever fired jams roughly every 5-6 shots… Lucky you hahaha
[/quote]
or 7. My brother has an old .22 that I think is either 10 or 12.
It only takes one.
[quote]
Never done competition other than informally with my brothers. I’m just talking about shooting bowling pins in a field without a stop watch. I don’t know that I’ve ever practiced self defense style shooting with my revolver like I normally do with my glock. Considering it weighs about 10 pounds, kicks like a mule, and has a 30 pound trigger pull in double action, I’d probably suck had core at it.
I have only ever taken a few self defense classes and all those were done with my glock. I’ve never had any other formal training with firearms.
well, coolness was meant for the target shooting/collecting side of things. I love old westerns. I don’t know if there is actual value to the more intimidating nature of a large revolver.
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17.
[quote]four60 wrote:
As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.[/quote]
Did I read that right, a Vaquero in .45 auto?
And .454 Casull is one killer round, but it kicks like a bear and the muzzle blast on anything less than an 8 in barrel is ludicrous. I shot an alaskan guide model with the shorty barrel, it was like firing a naval gun one handed. It also accepts .45 long colt though, which is a great lower-power round for getting the feel of it.
[quote]four60 wrote:
As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.[/quote]
Did I read that right, a Vaquero in .45 auto?
And .454 Casull is one killer round, but it kicks like a bear and the muzzle blast on anything less than an 8 in barrel is ludicrous. I shot an alaskan guide model with the shorty barrel, it was like firing a naval gun one handed. It also accepts .45 long colt though, which is a great lower-power round for getting the feel of it.[/quote]
I have wanted the Ruger Redhawk since I shot the GP100. I must have that gun. As for the Vaquero, hell man every guy should have one cowboy gun in his collection sometime in his life. If Im going to own a wheel gun it needs to be a bear stopper.
I’d be interested in seeing .454 casull fired into 10% ballistic gelatin by someone reputable… I think brassfetcher did some tests but I believe there was criticism about the mixture or something.
.454 Casull is listed at 1900 ft/s (240 grain variant) out of a 7.5 inch barrel by wiki… That might actually give you a good temp channel?
There was an open carry incident where both the good and the bad guy were armed with revolvers… Good guy dove to the ground and broke his trigger He knew how to fire it anyway, western-style… Only got one hit in I think and the gun was empty, no time to reload… Bad guy behaved like a complete moron (fortunately, he’d fired several shots at the store owner before and didn’t have much ammo left either to engage the good guy)… Did not take any cover, walked around, walked towards good guy… Tried to pry the gun out of good guy’s fingers… Lost the scuffle, eventually died (took him a while).
You can definitely mess up with a revolver, not just by damaging it physically… In close the other guy can also just grip the drum (don’t know if that is the proper English word)… I got to do that in pistol training…
But I’m honestly not worried about any of that… It’s more the low ammo count and reload issues… I could probably get a decent competition revolver with a nicer trigger pull and sights, but after a few rounds you’re basically screwed unless the opposition turns out to be both unlucky and incompetent… Fine guns if the fight goes your way early on, but for those situations, pretty much any gun will do.
Apart from that, unless you are really damn well trained, chances are that if someone engages you from up close, you’ll empty your gun into them aiming at whatever area you trained for, probably mess up your stance, duck and cover (or forget to do it and pay the price) a lot, move around so you don’t get hit… And if you don’t practice the right drills a lot, you may also mess up your grip or just use the basic movie grip and that will likely affect your accuracy as well plus the stress you are under if not the aggressor…
The “emptying the gun” -part is also important here, while ROF with a revolver is usually less than with a decent semi, you can easily empty it in 2 seconds or so even without much practice… And unless there is only one threat and he’s already down (no easy way to know the threat is stopped unless you see him collapse, so people keep shooting until empty), you will have to do a speed/emergency reload while engaged/expecting to be engaged again, thus under a lot of stress.
5-6 rounds is for those who feel/are lucky or overly confident in my opinion, when talking about the 2-way range. No offence to anyones prefernces mind, if you can shoot a revolver much better and don’t know the proper manipulation for a decent glock, sig or whatever you like, then of course it may still be a better option. At least get speed loaders then, though…
A Vickers (he can be kind of arrogant), or Redback or Magpul etc class will likely do a lot for you, both in instant improvements as well as teaching you the limits of your firearm, holster, stance and technique as well as giving you a good idea what drills you are missing in your training… Well worth the money to do one, maybe get the matching DVD’s first to have a look…
Plenty of not-so-great or downright terrible teachers out there as well though… Beware.
[quote]
well, coolness was meant for the target shooting/collecting side of things. I love old westerns. I don’t know if there is actual value to the more intimidating nature of a large revolver.[/quote]
Hm. They don’t really look that big when pointed at you… Imo if you can scare someone away with your weapon’s looks or sound, it probably doesn’t matter what gun you have… Might just be your own appearance/mannerisms too… That person probably would only go for obviously easy prey to begin with.
Being under RPK fire (anything belt-fed, really) is terrible (certainly more so than revolver fire :), and yet the suppression factor really depends on the opponent’s mental state and so on… They might well not even notice (ok, talking about war here, but some similar principles apply to incidents back in civilization… Some guys are cowed, others don’t notice anything and just stand around or walk around in the open shooting at you/police/CCW-shooter.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
How is the G20? [/quote]
x2
Haven’t ever shot a glock in 10mm, or much 10mm anything.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
How is the G20? [/quote]
x2
Haven’t ever shot a glock in 10mm, or much 10mm anything.
[/quote]
If Bhuda had a gun it would be the Glock 20. I have never shot a smoother gun in my life. Trigger is like little angel kisses.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
How is the G20? [/quote]
x2
Haven’t ever shot a glock in 10mm, or much 10mm anything.
[/quote]
If Bhuda had a gun it would be the Glock 20. I have never shot a smoother gun in my life. Trigger is like little angel kisses.[/quote]
This makes me want one more. Where do you get ammo for it and what does it run you?
Optics… I’ve been trying out a few new setups (new for me that is) recently on the 416…
Previously I’ve mostly used various full-size Eotechs either as the primary optic (BUIS down, they only block the FOV for me) or mounted offset 45 degrees (they’re rather big for that purpose, so not every mount/way to mount will work) in conjunction with various 1-4 and 1-6 'ers as primaries.
I like the eotech style ring and 1moa dot combo… The ring works great at short distances and to ensure you don’t lose sight of it like you might with a 2moa aimpoint on cluttered background/confusing lighting conditions etc. The 1MOA dot allows for nice precision out to 400-600m even and you can do some distance estimates with the way the ring is set up, plus the little marks show you whether your rifle’s tilted (right word?) and how much.
Not everyone (esp. people with some vision defects) likes the eotech ring+1MOA dot though, and Eotechs don’t necessarily match the battery life of competing products… I’ve had no real issues though. I replace the batteries often enough and they’re cheap so whatever.
Eotechs give the best field of view of all optics I’ve used… Doesn’t matter to everyone, but I am slower with Aimpoints and other Trijicon optics as well as all micro optics I know of because they kind of trip me up, even though I don’t look through the site permanently while transitioning between targets or when scanning. It’s enough to bring the rifle up and even with both eyes open the cluttered parts of the FOV with Irons and aimpoints bother me. Don’t like the tube/scope-ish design of the T1 and co either for close work.
Anyway… The only thing my Eotechs lack is the optional magnification…
Previously, as stated, I fixed that (when needed) with an offset setup with variable mag optic + eotech offset to the right at 45 degrees… Big plus here is that transitioning between optics is extremely fast.
3-gun guys rarely use full-size Eotechs as their offset sights, they usually go with smaller optics there…
Now I got to try some flip-up magnifiers from a colleague… Both for the eotech and aimpoint t1…
Ok, plus side is that it still feels best (during target transitions mostly) to have the primary optic mounted on top with no offset… Downside is that you need to flip the magnifier up and down, which is ultimately slower and messes a bit with your grip for a second.
Other downside is that both magnifiers were fixed at 3x I think… Not really a big deal, but yeah… And good variable optics simply are better for range estimation, especially compared to the t1+magnifier combo… But the Eotech also loses (just not as badly).
I think the magnifier is a decent option to enhance allround capabilities for guys normally just using eotechs or T1’s or similar… Gives the squad a little more mid-range without taking away from their cqb effectiveness/speed, and it’s probably easier to get used to than an off-set setup.
But as mentioned, the optic transition is slower and less smooth, and slow and less smooth is certainly no plus.
Both the flip-up and the offset optic options share some of the same weaknesses though, such as vulnerability to being damaged in certain situations where you’re shooting from a corner or some such with your primary optic or simialr situations where they might hit/scrape against something.
Anyone running optics on their revolvers or semi auto handguns?
I’ve seen both RDS optics and irons used very successfully in competitions on for both revolvers and semis… Not sure if it really matters at close range with good lighting and equal training… Of course the holsters used there aren’t exactly what people use for CCW usually… So CCW holsters may not work with a pistol RDS…
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
How is the G20? [/quote]
x2
Haven’t ever shot a glock in 10mm, or much 10mm anything.
[/quote]
If Bhuda had a gun it would be the Glock 20. I have never shot a smoother gun in my life. Trigger is like little angel kisses.[/quote]
This makes me want one more. Where do you get ammo for it and what does it run you?[/quote]
That is the problem for this gun. The ammo is crazy expensive. Its why I have to hunt for deals. I’ve tried, Midwayusa, and Cabelas, and a bunch of other places. Its all expensive. Its why its home defense only.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
How is the G20? [/quote]
x2
Haven’t ever shot a glock in 10mm, or much 10mm anything.
[/quote]
If Bhuda had a gun it would be the Glock 20. I have never shot a smoother gun in my life. Trigger is like little angel kisses.[/quote]
This makes me want one more. Where do you get ammo for it and what does it run you?[/quote]
NSFW! Good people die in these videos, and miserably.
RIP…
:
Also… I don’t know if this is allowed, so I’ll not embed it (hopefully it won’t embed, just ditch the quotes at the beginning and the end)… For a dose of reality, especially for the people who always complain about the police not being overly pleasant during traffic stops…
This one needs some more info: The deputy had apparently been reprimanded recently for drawing his gun too quickly on a minority or something… Possibly feared repercussions and thus hesitated for so long to engage…
“Police Vs Vietman Veteran [Police Shootout 1998 footage] - YouTube”
Turn the sound up… Screams of fear and pain like that from a friendly or uninvolved civilians are about the only thing that’s ever really thrown me right out of the zone. Hell, even from hostiles it’s jarring as hell. I can’t even stand hearing them on video there…
There are some better vids to show how gunfights, esp with pistols (but also with rifles) often really don’t go the way people usually assume they would (a few rounds tops to drop the target at one-way-range accuracy blahblah, always prepared, whatever… Often it’s both sides ducking to cover, rising quickly to fire one-handed and either missing or the rounds not doing anything to stop the threat quickly, magazines ending up empty to little effect no matter the caliber, people fumbling reloads,…). And you better believe that you can get really freaking scared and panicky and that that will mess things up big time…
Then you get the cases where both guys wound each other before one or both go down.
Anyway, no comment on tactics and such here, I just posted these to show that you really don’t want to get into a gunfight… Cowboy ancestry doesn’t count for shit.
I was trying to find a vid on the coates shooting (trooper)… He had a 357 mag revolver I think, put 5 rounds into the bad guy center mass, great accuracy etc to no immediate effect (bad guy survived, sentenced to life I think, or maybe death row? Don’t remember) and died from a.22 into the armpit where he had no plate coverage.
Anything can happen during such gunfights, you can train and prepare in many ways but ultimately things in close quarters and with pistols especially involve a lot of luck influencing many factors.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picking up my Rossi Ranch hand today in .38/357 and ordered a Cochise Leather Holster for it. As for revolvers the only 2 I have on my list to pick up this year are the Ruger Alaskan Super Redhawk .454 casull and the Ruger Vaquero stainless steel in 45 ACP.
All the above is just for fun range shooting.
If I have to leave the house Its a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. In my house for protection its the Glock 20 10mm or the Glock 21 45.
If I had to go to war and could only have a pistol it would be a glock 17. [/quote]
How is the G20? [/quote]
x2
Haven’t ever shot a glock in 10mm, or much 10mm anything.
[/quote]
If Bhuda had a gun it would be the Glock 20. I have never shot a smoother gun in my life. Trigger is like little angel kisses.[/quote]
This makes me want one more. Where do you get ammo for it and what does it run you?[/quote]
That is the problem for this gun. The ammo is crazy expensive. Its why I have to hunt for deals. I’ve tried, Midwayusa, and Cabelas, and a bunch of other places. Its all expensive. Its why its home defense only.[/quote]
He knew how to fire it anyway, western-style… Only got one hit in I think and the gun was empty, no time to reload… Bad guy behaved like a complete moron (fortunately, he’d fired several shots at the store owner before and didn’t have much ammo left either to engage the good guy)… Did not take any cover, walked around, walked towards good guy… Tried to pry the gun out of good guy’s fingers… Lost the scuffle, eventually died (took him a while).
