Teen Pregnancy Drops as Planned Parenthood Vanishes

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
It is a simple fact, not a simplistic view.

[/quote]
A fact in which you are using to imply those of us against abortion do not care about other peoples suffering.

Thanks for the fact I guess.

Again, your "X number of children starved today, Oh well comments imply “we” don’t care. So instead of asking, you just imply we do not.

By we I mean the anti-abortion crowd.

I don’t even know what this means. You’ll have to dumb it down for me. Remember public school education here.

So we should just kill them because they might starve? It’s more humane, right?

I might get cancer, better off myself…

Like I personally have no way to end world hunger.

Sure, teach them to fish rather than give them a fish. That’s more along the line of what I was thinking anyway. I’d rather they become self sufficient.

The wasted dollars aren’t being spent defending our way of life, after all.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

The employer should have no right to dictate their fanciful idiocy of their imaginary friends onto the actions or lives of anyone else. [/quote]

They can lay everyone off if they want and close shop. Which would you prefer?
[/quote]

Probably close shop , some one else would fill the void [/quote]

Maybe.[/quote]

Probably
[/quote]

According to?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

The employer should have no right to dictate their fanciful idiocy of their imaginary friends onto the actions or lives of anyone else. [/quote]

They can lay everyone off if they want and close shop. Which would you prefer?
[/quote]

Probably close shop , some one else would fill the void [/quote]

Maybe.[/quote]

Probably
[/quote]

According to?[/quote]

according to the guy that apposes the guy that says maybe :slight_smile:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
So we should just kill them because they might starve? It’s more humane, right?

I might get cancer, better off myself…
[/quote]

I think he was stating the situation as the inevitable, so a better saying would be “I have terminal cancer, better off myself…”

Now if you are in a situation where this could put a huge burden on your family the offing yourself route doesn’t sound as bad.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
So we should just kill them because they might starve? It’s more humane, right?

I might get cancer, better off myself…
[/quote]

I think he was stating the situation as the inevitable, so a better saying would be “I have terminal cancer, better off myself…”

Now if you are in a situation where this could put a huge burden on your family the offing yourself route doesn’t sound as bad.

Starvation isn’t inevitable though.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
So we should just kill them because they might starve? It’s more humane, right?

I might get cancer, better off myself…
[/quote]

I think he was stating the situation as the inevitable, so a better saying would be “I have terminal cancer, better off myself…”

Now if you are in a situation where this could put a huge burden on your family the offing yourself route doesn’t sound as bad.

Starvation isn’t inevitable though. [/quote]

The parents of these children might have a better insight to the reality of situation than we do.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
So we should just kill them because they might starve? It’s more humane, right?

I might get cancer, better off myself…
[/quote]

I think he was stating the situation as the inevitable, so a better saying would be “I have terminal cancer, better off myself…”

Now if you are in a situation where this could put a huge burden on your family the offing yourself route doesn’t sound as bad.

Starvation isn’t inevitable though. [/quote]

The parents of these children might have a better insight to the reality of situation than we do.
[/quote]

I’m sure they do. However, unlike terminal cancer, starvation can be easily “cured”.

[quote]cryogen wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
No you miss my point , that fetus is not a child [/quote]

No a sperm is a child. I name all of mine.[/quote]

Your photo album must take up entire rooms of your house then…[/quote]

When your sperm is as pretty as mine, you make room.[/quote]

we agree :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So Pitt you have seen Pat’s sperm? Is there something you are not telling us? lol
[/quote]

I’d have to give him a facial and that just wouldn’t be pretty, but it would be an up close view…[/quote]

you so called conservatives are surprising me . Dmad is constantly inquiring on my sexual orientation and pat has homo erotic fantasies about me . I will tell you both so I no longer tease your dicks . I am straight , sorry guys
[/quote]

Damn…

The only reason your surprised is because of your own bias. “Conservatives” are just people. And we might by some miracle have a sense of humor too.

I am a deadhead for crying out loud, having conservative beliefs are based on reflection, examination of logic and facts. I am against abortion, for instance, because the logic and reason leads me to no other conclusion that a human life, the species of homosapian is created as new, unique and complete human being at the point of conception. There is NO evidence contrary to this. There is no logic that can be derived that would entail the new creature is anything other than a complete, unique, automous homosapien, unique from the host and the donor.
Since that is the case and I believe that killing human beings is morally wrong, I have no choice but to be against abortion. It’s where the evidence leads and that’s what I am going to follow.[/quote]

I think the definition of conservative is a whole new threads . I will say I think I am more conservative than the majority on this site . Conserving one’s money or environment or assets is what (I) believe conservative is all about . Not whether you choose to do away with some cells that could become a person
[/quote]

The cells are already a person. You have failed to prove differently. You’ve brought nothing, no evidence to the contrary.[/quote]

They are definitely not a person. Fundamentally, just because you claim it to be, doesn’t make it true, and nor does it force the burden of proof away from your position. There is a significant amount of evidence to the contrary, but it seems that your idiotic beliefs mean that you’ve already decided the outcome, and you’re trying to make the evidence fit, and cherry picking only the evidence that suits your conclusion.

Calling an embryo autonomous is so stupid it is surprising that you’re able to find the on button on your computer.

Lets not forget that your ability to apply logic and reason is clearly flawed due to your farcical beliefs in sky fairies and afterlives.[/quote]

I haven’t seen anyone massacre logic and reason more than yourself. My ‘beliefs’ are backed by science, logic and reason. What you got? Nothing? Thought so.
Provide a shred of evidence for what you are saying. You won’t find any because it doesn’t exist. Don’t use words you don’t understand the meaning of.

Here’s a scientific perspective. No I don’t expect you to understand it.

http://bdfund.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/wi_whitepaper_life_print.pdf

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:
The employer should have no right to dictate their fanciful idiocy of their imaginary friends onto the actions or lives of anyone else. [/quote]

Lol, translation:

I don’t believe something so it must not be true; therefore, no one else can believe said thing or live their life in accordance with said thing.

You are free to do what you want as long as it is in line with my views. The definition of European freedom right there.

You want to offer free birth control to your employees, here ya go:

[/quote]

Or one could notate it as the ‘invincible ignorance’ fallacy. “I don’t care what the facts say!”. Or the ‘genetic fallacy’, ‘I believe you derive your beliefs from religion, therefore what you say is wrong because I don’t agree with religion.’

Watch out, he’s an expert!

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
A fact in which you are using to imply those of us against abortion do not care about other peoples suffering. [/quote]

Correction: a fact that am stating to illustrate the futility of arguing back and forth whether or not a zygote is a “person” or a “child” when, in the time it took the Pitt ‘n’ Pat comedy duo to say “is not!” “is too!” “nuh uh!” “your stoopid!” a half dozen times, tens of thousands of real, live, sentient, breathing air babies and children had died painfully of starvation, and yet I don’t see anybody starting up multiple threads decrying the outrage of this.

You’re welcome, I guess.

[quote]Again, your "X number of children starved today, Oh well comments imply “we” don’t care. So instead of asking, you just imply we do not.

By we I mean the anti-abortion crowd. [/quote]

Again, I may simply have not been paying attention. Please, if you would be so kind, remind me of all the threads started by any of the prominent antiabortion advocates on this forum which denounce childhood starvation in Asia and Africa with the same vehemence that they denounce abortion in this country. And then explain to me how “caring” about a problem is the same as doing something about a problem.

I was educated in public school myself. But actually I was being sarcastic. To say that tens of thousands of children starving to death every day is “not okay” is, I think, an understatement. I would call it an atrocity.

Who is “we”?

I’m certainly not advocation that any Americans enter foreign countries and start killing starving children. However, you evade my question: what is worse? To prevent a baby from being born, or having a baby, only to watch it waste away and die miserably?

Right, but like many posters on this forum, you speak in terms of “we should” and “they shouldn’t” etc.

So what do you personally do to alleviate the problems of abortion and world hunger, besides “caring” about it and trying to pursuade other people to “care” about it?

Excellent. Which organizations that help impoverished people in underdeveloped nations attain self sufficiency and healthy family size do you currently support?

Then what are all those billions being spent on “defense” actually defending?

I say that the American Way of Life is all about waste. It ain’t what you have, it’s what you can afford to throw away. How many tons of food do we throw away every day? How many calories go to make waddling Walmart walruses even fatter? How many starving children in India could have been fed for a year on the calories that go into creating adipose tissue on ONE of these fucking fatbodies?

No, our way of life is mindless consumption, thoughtless waste and blind self-centeredness and self-importance. And we will die kicking and screaming to defend it.

Have a nice day.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Correction: a fact that am stating to illustrate the futility of arguing back and forth whether or not a zygote is a “person” or a “child” when, in the time it took the Pitt ‘n’ Pat comedy duo to say “is not!” “is too!” “nuh uh!” “your stoopid!” a half dozen times, tens of thousands of real, live, sentient, breathing air babies and children had died painfully of starvation, and yet I don’t see anybody starting up multiple threads decrying the outrage of this. [/quote]

You didn’t illustrate that point very clearly. You just dropped a “fact” 2 or so times in a thread with no context at all.

So, thread creation & participation is the litmus test for joining a discussion? If I haven’t started a thread about starving kids I can’t talk about abortion?

These kids that starve, ya that sucks and I would love to see a real solution to world hunger. Do you know what also sucks. Being ripped from the womb and dying. Can I discuss that now?

[quote]
Again, I may simply have not been paying attention. Please, if you would be so kind, remind me of all the threads started by any of the prominent antiabortion advocates on this forum which denounce childhood starvation in Asia and Africa with the same vehemence that they denounce abortion in this country. And then explain to me how “caring” about a problem is the same as doing something about a problem. [/quote]

Again, why does that matter? Anti-abortion and starvation are two completely different topics. Start a thread I’m sure many anti-abortionist would be happy to join.

Also, starvation is not nearly as big an issue in America as it is in other countries. Abortion; however, is. Of ocurse we are going to discuss American issues more so than global issues. Is there something wrong with that?

So you don’t like my choice of word, what else is new? Millions of children being sucked from the womb is, what, not an atrocity?

Mankind

Abortion is worse; although, both are shitty. Not every baby that is born in a 3rd world country starves to death. Every baby aborted dies.

I vote for anti-abortion politicians and married a woman that is anti-abortion. I spend 10%-20% of my income on charities many of which help starving kids in America and Africa.

Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion from happening.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Then what are all those billions being spent on “defense” actually defending?
[/quote]

Nothing, they are wasted dollars…

Sounds great.

There is nothing I can do about people being fat as fuck. Do some Amercian over consume, of course. What do you want from me, an apology?

[quote]
No, our way of life is mindless consumption, thoughtless waste and blind self-centeredness and self-importance. And we will die kicking and screaming to defend it.

Have a nice day. [/quote]

Oh really is that OUR way of life. Who is generalizing now?

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion from happening. [/quote]

Making the killing of another person murder hasn’t stopped that either.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion from happening. [/quote]

Making the killing of another person murder hasn’t stopped that either. [/quote]

Yeah, I wrote the hastily. I should expand.

Whether something is illegal or not has little to no impact on someone’s decision to do something that has no impact on anyone else but themselves. By making it illegal, you force these people to search out for backyard doctors, fall down stairs, have boyfriends punch them in the stomach, essentially risk their life, to get what they want.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
No you miss my point , that fetus is not a child [/quote]

No a sperm is a child. I name all of mine.[/quote]

Your photo album must take up entire rooms of your house then…[/quote]

When your sperm is as pretty as mine, you make room.[/quote]

we agree :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So Pitt you have seen Pat’s sperm? Is there something you are not telling us? lol
[/quote]

I’d have to give him a facial and that just wouldn’t be pretty, but it would be an up close view…[/quote]

you so called conservatives are surprising me . Dmad is constantly inquiring on my sexual orientation and pat has homo erotic fantasies about me . I will tell you both so I no longer tease your dicks . I am straight , sorry guys
[/quote]

Damn…

The only reason your surprised is because of your own bias. “Conservatives” are just people. And we might by some miracle have a sense of humor too.

I am a deadhead for crying out loud, having conservative beliefs are based on reflection, examination of logic and facts. I am against abortion, for instance, because the logic and reason leads me to no other conclusion that a human life, the species of homosapian is created as new, unique and complete human being at the point of conception. There is NO evidence contrary to this. There is no logic that can be derived that would entail the new creature is anything other than a complete, unique, automous homosapien, unique from the host and the donor.
Since that is the case and I believe that killing human beings is morally wrong, I have no choice but to be against abortion. It’s where the evidence leads and that’s what I am going to follow.[/quote]

I think the definition of conservative is a whole new threads . I will say I think I am more conservative than the majority on this site . Conserving one’s money or environment or assets is what (I) believe conservative is all about . Not whether you choose to do away with some cells that could become a person
[/quote]

The cells are already a person. You have failed to prove differently. You’ve brought nothing, no evidence to the contrary.[/quote]

They are definitely not a person. Fundamentally, just because you claim it to be, doesn’t make it true, and nor does it force the burden of proof away from your position. There is a significant amount of evidence to the contrary, but it seems that your idiotic beliefs mean that you’ve already decided the outcome, and you’re trying to make the evidence fit, and cherry picking only the evidence that suits your conclusion.

Calling an embryo autonomous is so stupid it is surprising that you’re able to find the on button on your computer.

Lets not forget that your ability to apply logic and reason is clearly flawed due to your farcical beliefs in sky fairies and afterlives.[/quote]

I haven’t seen anyone massacre logic and reason more than yourself. My ‘beliefs’ are backed by science, logic and reason. What you got? Nothing? Thought so.
Provide a shred of evidence for what you are saying. You won’t find any because it doesn’t exist. Don’t use words you don’t understand the meaning of.

Here’s a scientific perspective. No I don’t expect you to understand it.

http://bdfund.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/wi_whitepaper_life_print.pdf

[/quote]

ROFL, You can’t claim that sky fairies exist and that you have justified your beliefs with science logic and reason. The whole reason the “faith” card needs to be played is because the beliefs are fundamentally irrational and illogical.

A white paper like the one in that link is not scientific, at least as far as the method is concerned. In isolation, the premise can be seen to be attractive and yet it fundamentally ignores the most important aspects of the process. Yes it uses evidence to make an argument, yet just because an exercise is a well written chicken and the egg prevarication, does not mean that when looking at the evidence all scientists must arrive at the same judgement. That’s just not the way the scientific method works, and shows a significant misunderstanding of just what scientists do with the scientific method.

That implantation of the embryo is also necessary for life can’t be argued, as well the provision of energetic requirements for the growth of this cluster of dividing cells. What this paper manages to do is to muddy the waters so that intellectual incompetents such as yourself, Pat, are able to understand a line or two and think that this is sufficient basis to impose your own judgements about what is morally acceptable or not onto other individuals who don’t share your farcical ideology.

Trying to make clearly delineated single point of “the beginning of life”, where the evidence to support this position is simply making a definition of what it is does not advance the argument. What it does is ask the fundamentally incorrect question. The important question is at what point does independent life begin.

Until that time, while the embryo may have the potential for life in the future, it is not really anything other than a tumour in the body of the mother.

This is generally the problem with ethicists and their papers. They rumenate occasionally over interesting questions, but primarily they’re interested in tangential soft questions.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion from happening. [/quote]

Making the killing of another person murder hasn’t stopped that either. [/quote]

Yeah, I wrote the hastily. I should expand.

Whether something is illegal or not has little to no impact on someone’s decision to do something that has no impact on anyone else but themselves. By making it illegal, you force these people to search out for backyard doctors, fall down stairs, have boyfriends punch them in the stomach, essentially risk their life, to get what they want.

[/quote]

In all seriousness why does that matter? People go outside the law all the time, I don’t think that simple fact should be considered when creating laws.

I also tend to disagree. I want a Camaro SS, but I can’t afford one. Grand theft auto is still illegal, as far as I know, so I don’t have one.

I also think if a woman was charged with murder for using a coat hanger as an abortion tool less women would do it. Same goes for men and stairs and punching.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
:)[/quote]

hum, let’s see:

Republicans want government funding out of planned parenthood. Therefore government out of her uterus.

Republicans don’t support the “free” birth control mandated by government, therefore government out of the uterus…

Hmmm, seems like that silly little cartoon is a load of disingenuous bullshit. Didn’t expect anything better pitt… [/quote]

The Republicans support the right of an employer to force their religious views on their employees . If the employer does not believe in birth control , than no birth control .

That in it’s self is the best reason to take Insurance out of the hands of employers [/quote]

No. Employers, based on religious views, don’t have to PAY for Birth Control. Their employees are free to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a pack of condoms like everyone else. [/quote]
This argument is absolute bullshit.

The USA really is a fucked up place.

The employer should have no right to dictate their fanciful idiocy of their imaginary friends onto the actions or lives of anyone else. [/quote]

They aren’t.

It is their money. Why should employers be forced to use their money to pay for something they are againsts.

https://www.google.com/search?q=walmart+condoms&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#q=walmart+condoms&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&tbm=shop

That was pretty simple…

[quote]cryogen wrote:
The USA really is a fucked up place. [/quote]

Have you even been here or are you basing this off Al Jazeera America & The Wire?
[/quote]

Yes, your arguments are complete bullshit.

The employer has a responsibility to make sure that if they have agreed to look after the health of their employees, that they don’t withhold any type of medical treatment simply because it might not be something they’d choose to do themselves.

I’ve been there, and while there are definitely great people spread throughout the USA, there is something fundamentally diseased about your country as a whole.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion from happening. [/quote]

Making the killing of another person murder hasn’t stopped that either. [/quote]

Yeah, I wrote the hastily. I should expand.

Whether something is illegal or not has little to no impact on someone’s decision to do something that has no impact on anyone else but themselves. By making it illegal, you force these people to search out for backyard doctors, fall down stairs, have boyfriends punch them in the stomach, essentially risk their life, to get what they want.

[/quote]

In all seriousness why does that matter? People go outside the law all the time, I don’t think that simple fact should be considered when creating laws.

I also tend to disagree. I want a Camaro SS, but I can’t afford one. Grand theft auto is still illegal, as far as I know, so I don’t have one.

I also think if a woman was charged with murder for using a coat hanger as an abortion tool less women would do it. Same goes for men and stairs and punching.

[/quote]

Of course it should be considered. There’s no point to considering what behaviours a law should govern if you’re not going to consider enforcement.
Laws simply express the societal standards of behaviour of the time. Things shouldn’t be a criminal offence if a significant portion of the populace carries out those behaviours with no impingement of the freedoms of others.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion from happening. [/quote]

Making the killing of another person murder hasn’t stopped that either. [/quote]

Yeah, I wrote the hastily. I should expand.

Whether something is illegal or not has little to no impact on someone’s decision to do something that has no impact on anyone else but themselves. By making it illegal, you force these people to search out for backyard doctors, fall down stairs, have boyfriends punch them in the stomach, essentially risk their life, to get what they want.

[/quote]

In all seriousness why does that matter? People go outside the law all the time, I don’t think that simple fact should be considered when creating laws.

I also tend to disagree. I want a Camaro SS, but I can’t afford one. Grand theft auto is still illegal, as far as I know, so I don’t have one.

I also think if a woman was charged with murder for using a coat hanger as an abortion tool less women would do it. Same goes for men and stairs and punching.

[/quote]

Your line of reasoning doesn’t fit since your scenario of stealing a car harms someone else.

In this scenario, if someone fundamentally believes that they own their embryo/fetus/whatever you want to refer to it as, and it’s their body, a law will have little to no impact on how they treat themselves.

How would anyone even know that the woman had an abortion? How would you enforce such a law? Who would turn the person in?

If abortion is illegal, maybe masturbation should be illegal? What about visectomies? How about tubal ligations? Birth control?

Laws shold not invade on individual rights which have no impact or is no business to anyone outside of oneself.