The act of trying to justify the taking of human life because it’s often inconvenient is continued here.
[quote]Orion clumsily blurted out:<<< something rather nebulous like “human life” changes into “person”. >>>[/quote]And here fellow forum dwellers is one of those unfortunate times when my buddy Orion slips tragically away from the frequently high performing intellect God has mercifully blessed Him with and into that dried out old tub of moral playdough he found in a pagan garbage can somewhere. It’s painful to watch.
[quote] Orion: As you should be-
You are just too damn sure when something rather nebulous like “human life” changes into “person”.
And, in the case of driving licenses, alcohol consumption, consensual sex with adults and whatnot we must deal with the desperate attempt to define a cutoff point for something that is essentially a biological continuum.
In a lot of other areas you would sign that in a heartbeat.
In this, you dont, just because you are more attached to it than most.[/quote]
This was in response to my pointing out that a death always occurs during an abortion. Well, except in rare cases where the victim survives (and grows up) to tell others how close they came to death. Anyways, your response is interesting as you don’t actually challenge my point. That a death does indeed occur. In fact, you concede the presence of an individual human life. Naturally, of course. It is an individual organism, human in this case, that we’re speaking of. I commend you for facing it for what it is.
Further, you admit that the embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teen, adult, and elderly Orion are the exact same individual organism. That is, the exact same human life. No switch-a-roos. No placeholder organism, until shazam!, it’s switched out for Orion’s entry into the world. One human life. On it’s own biological continuum (same individual, different stages). Bravo. Now, do what you know is right in your heart, knowing (as you’ve shown) what abortion actually accomplishes. Orion, go pro-life.
This is why I really miss you sometimes Sloth. This is brilliant.
Fetuses, like gingers, don’t have a soul, so it is pretty inconsequential.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote] Orion: As you should be-
You are just too damn sure when something rather nebulous like “human life” changes into “person”.
And, in the case of driving licenses, alcohol consumption, consensual sex with adults and whatnot we must deal with the desperate attempt to define a cutoff point for something that is essentially a biological continuum.
In a lot of other areas you would sign that in a heartbeat.
In this, you dont, just because you are more attached to it than most.[/quote]
This was in response to my pointing out that a death always occurs during an abortion. Well, except in rare cases where the victim survives (and grows up) to tell others how close they came to death. Anyways, your response is interesting as you don’t actually challenge my point. That a death does indeed occur. In fact, you concede the presence of an individual human life. Naturally, of course. It is an individual organism, human in this case, that we’re speaking of. I commend you for facing it for what it is.
Further, you admit that the embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teen, adult, and elderly Orion are the exact same individual organism. That is, the exact same human life. No switch-a-roos. No placeholder organism, until shazam!, it’s switched out for Orion’s entry into the world. One human life. On it’s own biological continuum (same individual, different stages). Bravo. Now, do what you know is right in your heart, knowing (as you’ve shown) what abortion actually accomplishes. Orion, go pro-life. [/quote]
No, because the legal right to drive is not something you are magically granted with your conception, nor can you smoke, drink, fuck, whatever.
You get this rights, peu a peu, as you grow up .
I dont see how the right to life is fundamentally different.
There is no right to life.
In fact, through wording of the law, the government makes it clear fetuses under 20 weeks do not have a right to life.
[quote]orion wrote:
No, because the legal right to drive is not something you are magically granted with your conception, nor can you smoke, drink, fuck, whatever.
You get this rights, peu a peu, as you grow up .
I dont see how the right to life is fundamentally different. [/quote]
I’m very sorry to hear that.
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.[/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
a pagan garbage can[/quote]
I resent that comment for all the old pagans who respected the dignity of life.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote] Orion: As you should be-
You are just too damn sure when something rather nebulous like “human life” changes into “person”.
And, in the case of driving licenses, alcohol consumption, consensual sex with adults and whatnot we must deal with the desperate attempt to define a cutoff point for something that is essentially a biological continuum.
In a lot of other areas you would sign that in a heartbeat.
In this, you dont, just because you are more attached to it than most.[/quote]
This was in response to my pointing out that a death always occurs during an abortion. Well, except in rare cases where the victim survives (and grows up) to tell others how close they came to death. Anyways, your response is interesting as you don’t actually challenge my point. That a death does indeed occur. In fact, you concede the presence of an individual human life. Naturally, of course. It is an individual organism, human in this case, that we’re speaking of. I commend you for facing it for what it is.
Further, you admit that the embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teen, adult, and elderly Orion are the exact same individual organism. That is, the exact same human life. No switch-a-roos. No placeholder organism, until shazam!, it’s switched out for Orion’s entry into the world. One human life. On it’s own biological continuum (same individual, different stages). Bravo. Now, do what you know is right in your heart, knowing (as you’ve shown) what abortion actually accomplishes. Orion, go pro-life. [/quote]
No, because the legal right to drive is not something you are magically granted with your conception, nor can you smoke, drink, fuck, whatever.
You get this rights, peu a peu, as you grow up .
I dont see how the right to life is fundamentally different. [/quote]
Because it is inalienable…not given by man.
Might as well stop the discussion if you need non secular arguments to make your point
Cool, no right to an abortion exists outside of what we’re willing to legislate. So when we win this debate and change the laws to reflect the pro-life movement, just remember no ‘right’ to choose is being infringed upon.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote] Orion: As you should be-
You are just too damn sure when something rather nebulous like “human life” changes into “person”.
And, in the case of driving licenses, alcohol consumption, consensual sex with adults and whatnot we must deal with the desperate attempt to define a cutoff point for something that is essentially a biological continuum.
In a lot of other areas you would sign that in a heartbeat.
In this, you dont, just because you are more attached to it than most.[/quote]
This was in response to my pointing out that a death always occurs during an abortion. Well, except in rare cases where the victim survives (and grows up) to tell others how close they came to death. Anyways, your response is interesting as you don’t actually challenge my point. That a death does indeed occur. In fact, you concede the presence of an individual human life. Naturally, of course. It is an individual organism, human in this case, that we’re speaking of. I commend you for facing it for what it is.
Further, you admit that the embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teen, adult, and elderly Orion are the exact same individual organism. That is, the exact same human life. No switch-a-roos. No placeholder organism, until shazam!, it’s switched out for Orion’s entry into the world. One human life. On it’s own biological continuum (same individual, different stages). Bravo. Now, do what you know is right in your heart, knowing (as you’ve shown) what abortion actually accomplishes. Orion, go pro-life. [/quote]
No, because the legal right to drive is not something you are magically granted with your conception, nor can you smoke, drink, fuck, whatever.
You get this rights, peu a peu, as you grow up .
I dont see how the right to life is fundamentally different.
[/quote]
The legal right to drive, smoke, drink, etc. are with-held prior to a certain age, to protect other persons as well as oneself from unnecessary danger or unnecessary ill effects. (Or in the case of a child prodigy who could safely drive or drink prior to the standard age, the legal right is with-held prior to the standard age to protect other members of society from the long-term consequences of legal chaos.)
Also, death now precludes life at a later time; prohibition of driving now does not preclude driving at a later time.
Added the first quote, to make the context of the second quote more clear.
I don’t disagree. Rights are granted by the state and can be easily taken away.
Some of us consider god nothing more than a concept. You may as well quote star wars, it would be equally as effective.
Whether a right exists or not has no bearing on how moral abortion is
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Whether a right exists or not has no bearing on how moral abortion is[/quote]
Moral?! Sir, I thought this was a secular discussion, with room only for what we can observe! So outlawing abortion would not only NOT infringe upon abortion ‘rights,’ but it wouldn’t be an immoral thing to do either!
[quote]therajraj wrote:I don’t disagree. Rights are granted by the state and can be easily taken away. Some of us consider god nothing more than a concept. You may as well quote star wars, it would be equally as effective.[/quote]You will not be thrilled to learn that as He sustains your existence every millisecond God is entirely unimpressed with what you consider about anything.