Tea Party

[Sloth]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Again…I am NOT “Big Government”…and it needs to be reduced SUBSTANTIALLY.

Mufasa[/quote]

Then what in the heck are you on about?! That we’re all supposed to unplug ourselves from the present reality, society, and economy to form underground societies–as I assume you have–before we get to agitate for SUBSTANTIAL reductions, too? That we all must pretend the Democrats haven’t vilified the GoP time and again over the very same programs that are flat out poised to destroy us? That we’ve only imagined years and years of “republicans want to kick old people out on the street?” That years and years of “republicans want grandma eating dog food. And only eating dog food after choosing between eating and getting her meds,” didn’t happend?

Look back to what I posted. The numbers and the charts. That is the dark reality of what we face. So, who are the crazies? The tea party folk? Or, the mainstream party who has cultivated a voting bloc wich still believes SS and medicare shouldn’t be touched? There’s only one irresponsible group of ideologues that I see. The liberal Democrats. Still, STILL!, foot dragging. Still using the same type of rhetoric that made these programs, these ponzi schemes, untouchable. Still, when their own failed President has told us that in 14 years such programs, along with interest on the debt, will consume our entire budget.

We have a handful of years to begin SUBSTANTIALLY reducing government, and the whole friggen way it’ll be the Democrats demonizing anyone involved. It’ll be a damned wonder if we can even elect a government brave enough to begin the process of reforming and cutting these third rail programs, with that lot of harpies obstructing and demagoguing the whole way.

Don’t get me wrong, the Tea Party will have to give on taxes some in order to maximize these reforms and cuts. But, they should damn sure stick firm until that disgusting little party, the Democrats, knocks off the crap and faces cold reality.

[Mufasa]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Again…I am NOT “Big Government”…and it needs to be reduced SUBSTANTIALLY.

Mufasa[/quote]

Then what in the heck are you on about?! That we’re all supposed to unplug ourselves from the present reality, society, and economy to form underground societies–as I assume you have–before we get to agitate for SUBSTANTIAL reductions, too? That we all must pretend the Democrats haven’t vilified the GoP time and again over the very same programs that are flat out poised to destroy us? That we’ve only imagined years and years of “republicans want to kick old people out on the street?” That years and years of “republicans want grandma eating dog food. And only eating dog food after choosing between eating and getting her meds,” didn’t happend?

Look back to what I posted. The numbers and the charts. That is the dark reality of what we face. So, who are the crazies? The tea party folk? Or, the mainstream party who has cultivated a voting bloc wich still believes SS and medicare shouldn’t be touched? There’s only one irresponsible group of ideologues that I see. The liberal Democrats. Still, STILL!, foot dragging. Still using the same type of rhetoric that made these programs, these ponzi schemes, untouchable. Still, when their own failed President has told us that in 14 years such programs, along with interest on the debt, will consume our entire budget.

We have a handful of years to begin SUBSTANTIALLY reducing government, and the whole friggen way it’ll be the Democrats demonizing anyone involved. It’ll be a damned wonder if we can even elect a government brave enough to begin the process of reforming and cutting these third rail programs, with that lot of harpies obstructing and demagoguing the whole way.

Don’t get me wrong, the Tea Party will have to give on taxes some in order to maximize these reforms and cuts. But, they should damn sure stick firm until that disgusting little party, the Democrats, knocks off the crap and faces cold reality.[/quote]

I’m NOT going to place all of the Nations problems on one Political group and/or person.

As Max said…it’s a clusterfuck with plenty of blame to go around.

Mufasa

[ZEB]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Again…I am NOT “Big Government”…and it needs to be reduced SUBSTANTIALLY.

Mufasa[/quote]

Then what in the heck are you on about?! That we’re all supposed to unplug ourselves from the present reality, society, and economy to form underground societies–as I assume you have–before we get to agitate for SUBSTANTIAL reductions, too? That we all must pretend the Democrats haven’t vilified the GoP time and again over the very same programs that are flat out poised to destroy us? That we’ve only imagined years and years of “republicans want to kick old people out on the street?” That years and years of “republicans want grandma eating dog food. And only eating dog food after choosing between eating and getting her meds,” didn’t happend?

Look back to what I posted. The numbers and the charts. That is the dark reality of what we face. So, who are the crazies? The tea party folk? Or, the mainstream party who has cultivated a voting bloc wich still believes SS and medicare shouldn’t be touched? There’s only one irresponsible group of ideologues that I see. The liberal Democrats. Still, STILL!, foot dragging. Still using the same type of rhetoric that made these programs, these ponzi schemes, untouchable. Still, when their own failed President has told us that in 14 years such programs, along with interest on the debt, will consume our entire budget.

We have a handful of years to begin SUBSTANTIALLY reducing government, and the whole friggen way it’ll be the Democrats demonizing anyone involved. It’ll be a damned wonder if we can even elect a government brave enough to begin the process of reforming and cutting these third rail programs, with that lot of harpies obstructing and demagoguing the whole way.

Don’t get me wrong, the Tea Party will have to give on taxes some in order to maximize these reforms and cuts. But, they should damn sure stick firm until that disgusting little party, the Democrats, knocks off the crap and faces cold reality.[/quote]

I’m NOT going to place all of the Nations problems on one Political group and/or person.

As Max said…it’s a clusterfuck with plenty of blame to go around.

Mufasa
[/quote]

BULL! Would you like to compare the price tag of the many social entitlement programs to the cost of war in Iraq?

Knock it off Mufasa, you know better than that.

Edit: I’m not saying that republicans don’t do some things wrong, they do plenty wrong. The point I’m trying to make is that on this particular issue- entitlement programs - The democrats should take full responsiblity.

And I apologize if I seemed to get carried away my friend. But I am passionate about this issue and have watched it closely for many years.

[apbt55]

Mufasa,

I only disagree with one point. We do not need to raise taxes to pay off the debt. An increase in taxes does not guarantee an increase in revenue, but aside from that. If government would stick within it’s original functional scope this would not be an issue. The government was not established as a means for one group to acquire money or services by taking them from another group, but that seems to be it’s only real role in the present system.

The whole system is rigged to extort and redistribute to buy further votes and increase this power, whether it be to corporations, unions or other lobbying special interest groups. That is what all governmental programs are currently established for. Not the original intent to protect people’s rights and their property. that is the only true function of the American government and everything else is an entitlement a self serving expense to the tax payers. We could drastically reduce the expenses of government if it only did what it was supposed to.

this needs to be retaught to these politicians on a federal, state and local scale.

[Sloth]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

…I am passionate about this issue and have watched it closely for many years.[/quote]

And THIS is why so many are ticked off. We’ve known all this for years now. It’s an obvious structural problem with the programs coupled with a demographics change. For years this has been known. It could’ve been dealt with many times over, back when it wouldn’t have been as difficult. Instead, out comes images of granny eating cat food. Year after year, after year. And now, because we’ve waited, it’s going to be a lot more painful to avert this coming crises. And if the Democrats don’t knock off the rhetoric and educate their voters as to the harsh reality, we still might not do a damned thing until it’s too late.

It was way past time for someone or some persons to come along and force this debate.

[Mufasa]

Great post, abpt55.

1. I would agree with the revenue issue if our deficit and interest payments were even in the billions of dollars; OR if we as a Country were prepared to take the hit required to suddenly reduce entitlements and military spending by Trillions of “real” dollars.

The latter is not true; and our economy can’t withstand a SUDDEN…and the key word is SUDDEN decrease in the aforementioned by Trillions.

2. You said the following:

“…The whole system is rigged to extort and redistribute to buy further votes and increase this power, whether it be to corporations, unions or other lobbying special interest groups…”

My question is this…is this “extortion” done by only one Political Group?

To me, the answer is “no”.

Mufasa

[apbt55]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Great post, abpt55.

1. I would agree with the revenue issue if our deficit and interest payments were even in the billions of dollars; OR if we as a Country were prepared to take the hit required to suddenly reduce entitlements and military spending by Trillions of “real” dollars.

The latter is not true; and our economy can’t withstand a SUDDEN…and the key word is SUDDEN decrease in the aforementioned by Trillions.

2. You said the following:

“…The whole system is rigged to extort and redistribute to buy further votes and increase this power, whether it be to corporations, unions or other lobbying special interest groups…”

My question is this…is this “extortion” done by only one Political Group?

To me, the answer is “no”.

Mufasa[/quote]

Well depends on how you view politics in this country, I see one major party, the big government progressive feed the cronnie party,

So even though they use the dem and rep names, they 2 sides of the same coin.

The entitlement reform can be slow, say over a 5 yr period, or we can continue this BS have a complete collapse and it can happen over 1 month period.

But in order to even start that 5yr plan, it has to be started, say a freeze in borrowing this year, then slowly decrease spending and increase what goes tot he debt.

Here is my problem, I can withstand a collapse tomorrow, I sacrificed and lived primarily independent of the government. I played by there rules long enough, so to me doesn’t matter. But for the sake of others we need to do something and now. No one wants to really act and sorry but punishing the productive the ones who sacrificed and did what should is not an option. But if we allow these corrupt politicians to find cuts and close loopholes it will still fall back on the middle class and small businesses to support the corporate and mass welfare.

If you have been using these bloated programs and become completely dependent on them then that is your fault, you are abusing the system and someday you have to pay the piper.

That is part of the problem, the lack of responsibility and accountability in this country. Look at London if you want to see what is coming if we keep having the current discussions. No the time for action is now,

I know it is a movie, but this comes to mind

Liberty by Law - Freedom speech by Robin Hood

[ZEB]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Great post, abpt55.

1. I would agree with the revenue issue if our deficit and interest payments were even in the billions of dollars; OR if we as a Country were prepared to take the hit required to suddenly reduce entitlements and military spending by Trillions of “real” dollars.

The latter is not true; and our economy can’t withstand a SUDDEN…and the key word is SUDDEN decrease in the aforementioned by Trillions.

2. You said the following:

“…The whole system is rigged to extort and redistribute to buy further votes and increase this power, whether it be to corporations, unions or other lobbying special interest groups…”

My question is this…is this “extortion” done by only one Political Group?

To me, the answer is “no”.

Mufasa[/quote]

Political extortion and demagoguery is a fine art which has been refined by the democratic party to a fine edge. In fact, it’s actually written in their play book. And I’ve actually seen those words encouraging their candidates to say such things.

Reagan/Mondale Presidential election is one example. Mondale and company thought that their only hope of him winning was to try to sare all of the old people by claiming that Reagan was going to take away their benefits. But this has been going on BY THE DEMOCRATS for many election cycles. It’s SOP for any democrat at the national level.

Scare the old people by claiming that the republicans are threatening their social security payments. How then could we have a meaningful discussion about entitlement reduction? The democrats would never bring it up as they used it as a weapon to beat the republicans over the head with. And most of the republicans were too scared to even mention it as the dems used that exact issue as WEDGE.

But that’s what democrats do at the national level. When they’re done scaring the old people they then turn to the populace and tell them that the rich (however they define it) are not paying their fair share of taxes. When in fact the top 10% of tax payers pay about 70% of all taxes. This drives a wedge between those who produce at a high level and the rest of the country.

Apparently you leave your conscience at the door before entering the democratic party.

[ZEB]

I wonder how much money the federal government would need if they reduced their size by half and actually became efficient at performing their duties?

[orion]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I wonder how much money the federal government would need if they reduced their size by half and actually became efficient at performing their duties?[/quote]

Dont you remember the horrible days of 2000, when children starved in the streets and seniors where buying dog food in bulk?

Cause thats where you would go back to man…

Quote entirely relevant:

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.

H. L. Mencken

[Mufasa]

"…I see one major party, the big government progressive feed the cronnie party,

So even though they use the dem and rep names, they are 2 sides of the same coin…"

That’s essentially how I see it also, apbt55, despite the attempt to make me some kind of “Dem Sympathizer”.

Again, excellent post.

Mufasa

[pittbulll]

I am presently paying a couple hundred dollars for health Ins. I would gladly pay $150 a month more in taxes for better coverage , you guys are so dense

[orion]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I am presently paying a couple hundred dollars for health Ins. I would gladly pay $150 a month more in taxes for better coverage , you guys are so dense [/quote]

Oh, you will be more.

Just for less coverage.

[pittbulll]

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
The Tea Party.

There are some realities here, guys, the most important of which has been shown over and over again throughout history;

When a group gains political power and influence…especially when it holds to stringent views and ideology; rest assured that a few things will happen:

1. It will do some good…and it will often do some bad.

2. It will alienate large segments of a populace AND

3. It will be co-opted and slowly “used” to push agendas that move it further and further away from the groups original “pure” ideals.

THESE POINTS ARE NOT UNIQUE TO THE TEA PARTY…BUT THE TEA PARTY IS ALSO NOT IMMUNE TO THEM NOW THAT THEY HAVE OBVIOUSLY BECOME AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE U.S. POLITICAL PROCESS. (By the way…for whomever said “they hold no elected political seat or office” is being disingenuous in not recognizing The Parties’ power and influence. “Power and Influence” and “Elected Office” are nowhere near being synonymous).

Back to my three points, what are my thoughts, looking at things as a voting citizen?

1. They have opened up the Political debate…and closed it at the same time.

This last debate (the debt ceiling) is a case in point. I’ll say this again: “Decreasing spending” is NOT the same as “Decreasing the Debt”. BOTH need to be done, no question…but the latter requires increased revenue. Insistence on not doing the latter, ironically, lead to a “deal” with far less spending cuts than an agreement reached by the President and Speaker Boehner…and FAR less than one proposed originally by the President.

2. Despite this attempt to paint the Tea Party as some “Rainbow Coalition” (hell…the ORIGINAL “Rainbow Coalition” was far from being all inclusive!)…the Tea Party is mostly pissed off, white conservatives. If you are a pissed off white conservative, you most certainly have a very powerful voice for your views.

Now some will argue “limited government”, “following the Constitution”, “living within our means” etc. are “neutral” stands that benefit us all…and that is true…but that leads me to the last part I brought up about the corruption of power;

3. With the recognition of its power and influence, “other” agendas are slowly but surely becoming part of what represents an acceptable “Tea Party” candidate; and these are way beyond limited Government and constitutional ideals, and are taking the form of signed “pledges” and “promises”, some of which go way beyond the original “platform” of The Party.

They all may play well on “PWI”…but it’s making a lot of American’s nervous.

So…for me, it’s a Party, started by GOP strategist (that I think go back to HW Bush? …sorry, guys…certainly a lot of “grass-roots” soldiers now, but not a “grass-roots” foundation)…that is now a very powerful and integral part of our Political Process…and just as susceptible to its corruption.

Mufasa
[/quote]

If balancing the budget was the issue , Bill Clinton would be GOD and Jesus, The tea party is all about power, Angry white men striking poses

[jre67t]

Ah pitbull me whining who started the post you idiot? And I thought you where a peaceful democrat, why did you tell me fuck you, that hurt my feelings. Need a manpod?
Dude why not pay cash for minor medical incidents and have insurance for a major incident. Also it is not only angry white man in the tea party, there are some angry brown men joining and growing. So please quit being dense and refrain from cussing me out, that’s very undemocratic.

When all else fails just blame someone else then start cussing them out.

[Mufasa]

The Tea Party is a political juggarnaut that is here to stay.

What will be interesting to see is it’s evolution.

Mufasa

[MaximusB]

This is the way I see it, I consider myself Conservative, but I am an equal opportunity hater, I give all politicians the equal chance to hate them.

If you’re gonna talk about spending, whether it’s for a war, or some entitlement program, it’s kinda moot. I mean, money is fucking money at the end of the day.

If you want to have a nice health care system, a great social entitlement system, you will need taxes to fund it. You can spice it up with words like, “fees, surcharges, fines, etc” but you are taking money from people and dressing it up.

People comment about Europe about their system, I know Bill Maher does alot, but he doesn’t mention the OBSCENE taxes they pay, and that’s for all citizens. Yes, health care is free, and education is free or very cheap, but they can pay up to 75% taxes. Convenient that he left that out.

BTW, Barney Frank farts during an interview with Rachel Maddow, listen and smell around 0:03.

Rep. Barney Frank Farts on Live TV

[pittbulll]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
This is the way I see it, I consider myself Conservative, but I am an equal opportunity hater, I give all politicians the equal chance to hate them.

If you’re gonna talk about spending, whether it’s for a war, or some entitlement program, it’s kinda moot. I mean, money is fucking money at the end of the day.

If you want to have a nice health care system, a great social entitlement system, you will need taxes to fund it. You can spice it up with words like, “fees, surcharges, fines, etc” but you are taking money from people and dressing it up.

People comment about Europe about their system, I know Bill Maher does alot, but he doesn’t mention the OBSCENE taxes they pay, and that’s for all citizens. Yes, health care is free, and education is free or very cheap, but they can pay up to 75% taxes. Convenient that he left that out.

BTW, Barney Frank farts during an interview with Rachel Maddow, listen and smell around 0:03.

Rep. Barney Frank Farts on Live TV

Frank is right,I know people think our government can do no right , and they use US postal as an example , I would challenge those that do to mail a letter via Swift trucking or even UPS, Try Fed ex. Maybe other parcels ,like if you want to ship a coil of steel , ok the postal service is not for you, letters who can compete ?

[jre67t]

Wow Pitgirl we agree on one thing, the Post Office is cheaper in all aspects to include parcels as well. Think flat rate boxes. The problem lies with the PO have too pay too much into retirement healthcare. Anywho my feelings are still hurt when you told me fuck you.
The PO infrastructure is great the problems lies with red tape.

[pittbulll]

[quote]jre67t wrote:
Wow Pitgirl we agree on one thing, the Post Office is cheaper in all aspects to include parcels as well. Think flat rate boxes. The problem lies with the PO have too pay too much into retirement healthcare. Anywho my feelings are still hurt when you told me fuck you.
The PO infrastructure is great the problems lies with red tape.[/quote]

Hey Bitch, I have yet to see an integrate complex system that is not mired in red tape, private or public