Its tough because bent-over rows are such a core exercise in many routines. But the fact that you have to do an isometric romanian deadlift whilst rowing is hard as hell. And not to say it is not good because of that reason but there is no way you can focus on your back during this movement when you have to worry about staying upright. this is of course in relation to t-bar rows.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
For me, T-bars have always been like a cross between the stretch of a chinup and the thickness building qualities of bentover rows. Franco Columbu and Robbie Robinson were huge proponents of T-bar rowing and it’s hard to argue with their results. Easier on the lower back also.
Lee Haney also. He is probably the main reason I stuck with them and fully believed they would work for me even when I was smaller. They did.
The picture above is the Hammer Strength high row pull down…the greatest machine ever created…next to the rest of their shit.
If you can get to 5 plates a side on that for more than 5 reps and your back still isn’t big, just give up bodybuilding.[/quote]
Yes…that machine rocks.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
For me, T-bars have always been like a cross between the stretch of a chinup and the thickness building qualities of bentover rows. Franco Columbu and Robbie Robinson were huge proponents of T-bar rowing and it’s hard to argue with their results. Easier on the lower back also.
Lee Haney also. He is probably the main reason I stuck with them and fully believed they would work for me even when I was smaller. They did.
The picture above is the Hammer Strength high row pull down…the greatest machine ever created…next to the rest of their shit.
If you can get to 5 plates a side on that for more than 5 reps and your back still isn’t big, just give up bodybuilding.[/quote]
thanks for showing this. i had never tried this machine before. i usually do free weights but after seeing the photo i decided to give it a try this week. it was awesome. what a great upper back workout!
[quote]btm62 wrote:
I do hate the idea of leaving such a great exercise out of my arsenal but they hit my hands funny and they go numb or I have pain, not a good pain either. Let me rephrase the question and see if the answers modify. I powerlift, I am a big believer in balance. You know working the back to increase my bench type thing. So knowing that, how does that change your response(s) if at all?
I also do many deadlift variations as well as power shrugs and these do not cause this sensation in my hands. So I wonder sometimes if its “referred” from some other area of my body.
Pondering out loud.[/quote]
You raise an interesting point about the hands going numb, not sure what that is from. You can use a supinated or a pronated grip, it doesn’t matter that much. You can also use straps if necessary.
I compete in PL and I would actually say that the bent over row to you is more important than it was before I knew you competed. I also believe in balancing the back with the chest, I think you should bent over row what you can bench press. If you can’t it might mean your back is weak.
Pull-ups are another good indicator of lat strength, and DB Row’s are decent. Personally I don’t think the T-bar row does much for PL strength. Doesn’t mean I never use it but it is not a staple.
Good luck
yea the neutral grip of the tbar (when using a handle)allows u pull the r closer.I find using bent rows the way dorian did it in blood n guts works best for me. i used to do it the ‘textbook’ way of 45 degrees and could never really feel it.
[quote]nptitim wrote:
[quote]btm62 wrote:
I do hate the idea of leaving such a great exercise out of my arsenal but they hit my hands funny and they go numb or I have pain, not a good pain either. Let me rephrase the question and see if the answers modify. I powerlift, I am a big believer in balance. You know working the back to increase my bench type thing. So knowing that, how does that change your response(s) if at all?
I also do many deadlift variations as well as power shrugs and these do not cause this sensation in my hands. So I wonder sometimes if its “referred” from some other area of my body.
Pondering out loud.[/quote]
You raise an interesting point about the hands going numb, not sure what that is from. You can use a supinated or a pronated grip, it doesn’t matter that much. You can also use straps if necessary.
I compete in PL and I would actually say that the bent over row to you is more important than it was before I knew you competed. I also believe in balancing the back with the chest, I think you should bent over row what you can bench press. If you can’t it might mean your back is weak.
Pull-ups are another good indicator of lat strength, and DB Row’s are decent. Personally I don’t think the T-bar row does much for PL strength. Doesn’t mean I never use it but it is not a staple.
Good luck[/quote]
In my opinion, getting strong at ALL free-weight back exercises has been the biggest contributing factor to my deadlifting strength. I focus on them in phases usually…I’ll do a lot of BB Rows (as I am currently) for a few weeks, then the next few weeks I’ll focus mostly on Tbars, other times pendlay rows, other times “devil rows”, etc etc. I guess you could say basically cycling my back exercises just like you would cycle bench exercises.
OP, try using a wider grip on BB Rows, and a narrow foot stance, so your arms stop the bar right around quad level, therefore not having to move the bar around your knees on each rep. You may have to use a slightly more upright position to accomplish this.
[quote]hansneggs wrote:
yea the neutral grip of the tbar (when using a handle)allows u pull the r closer.I find using bent rows the way dorian did it in blood n guts works best for me. i used to do it the ‘textbook’ way of 45 degrees and could never really feel it.[/quote]
4 years too late.
[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
[quote]hansneggs wrote:
yea the neutral grip of the tbar (when using a handle)allows u pull the r closer.I find using bent rows the way dorian did it in blood n guts works best for me. i used to do it the ‘textbook’ way of 45 degrees and could never really feel it.[/quote]
4 years too late.[/quote]
I love barbell rows.
T bar rows!!!
why not just do both??
i feel rows alot more and they help build lower back and general midsection too.
t-bars are just fun to me, seeing pictures of bodybuilders using a certain number of plates and then you beating them, haha little victory in my books.
T-bars have helped my back aswell, but if i had to choose… it would be tbars just because they are fun.
I love T-bar rows. I’ve tried BB rows a few times, but I don’t like the feeling.
Nothing like having people stare at you rep several 45’s stacked up cause they’ve never seen T-bars before.
T-Bar and BB Rows!!!
Tar bar rows are like a leg press where a barbell rows are the squat. T bar allows me to concentrate on the muscles working and takes my lower back out of the equation. Gotta do both, but I prefer t bar especially when reps are higher.
my new combo is
T- bar rows (but I put my hands on a plate, not on a grip)
+
Kroc Rows
works perfect!
PX, in your opinion is it acceptable to lean back up to 45 degrees on the HS high row to pull more weight or should you stay vertical with your chest against the pad the whole time? I’ve tried both but am curious what you recommend.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
For me, T-bars have always been like a cross between the stretch of a chinup and the thickness building qualities of bentover rows. Franco Columbu and Robbie Robinson were huge proponents of T-bar rowing and it’s hard to argue with their results. Easier on the lower back also.[/quote]
Lee Haney also. He is probably the main reason I stuck with them and fully believed they would work for me even when I was smaller. They did.
The picture above is the Hammer Strength high row pull down…the greatest machine ever created…next to the rest of their shit.
If you can get to 5 plates a side on that for more than 5 reps and your back still isn’t big, just give up bodybuilding.[/quote]
I love the Hammer Strength High rows (and the Chest supported T-bars).
X do you do the HS rows with one arm or both at the same time?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]nptitim wrote:
For me bent over rows by a long shot, for the following reasons. You can (should) be able to use more weight with the bent over row, it is free weights and not a machine (always a plus), the weight is not crushing your chest making you kind of hold your breath, and with the bent over row you (often) have more variations with grip than the T-bar row (all of the T-bar’s I seem to encounter are basically wide grip and that’s it). I have yet to find a good T-bar row to do supinated. Personally I like both versions of bent over rows (45 degree and 90 degree) but 45 is definitely my favorite.
Benefits of the T-bar row are the lower back is removed from the exercise (a benefit for some, a negative for others) and it may be more comfortable/easier to learn for some people.
Actually for T-bar rows I like what I call the Old School T-bar row where you stick the bar in the corner and put the plates on one side and then lift it up, often using a V-grip.
For mass building I like the Hammer Strength Lat Pulldown (Prof X’s machine), Hammer Strength Row, and Bent Over Row, for strength I like Bent Over Row, DB Row, and Pull-ups.[/quote]
You are seriously confusing a real T-bar row with the kind made with the pad you lean on. I doubt most here are talking about that one meaning your comments about the lower back being removed from the equation don’t hold up. There have been many times I have simply placed the end of one olympic bar in a corner, put weights on the other end, and used the seated row bar as the handle beneath that end. That solves every issue you just raised. That is what T-bar rows were initially.[/quote]
this is how i always do my t-bar rows as well. no machine in my gym
I prefer T-bar rows. I can feel them a lot better.
I’m talking about either using a barbell/handle or the classic T-bar machine. Can’t stand the chest supported row machines. I only know of one gym in my area that has a real T-bar, all the others have the crappy chest supported rows. I hate these machines. I don’t know why they are making T-bars extinct in my area.
I don’t like the shorter range of motion with t-bar rows (with the 45’s hitting me in the chest or face) so i used to just wrap a towel around the bar to give me more ROM… Until my fingers felt like they were going to snap…
Then i just said FUCK IT! and switched to Bent Over Rows