studied a very tough and effective style for 10 years with some tough guys, and a VERY tough sensei. if any of us pulled that stunt, watch out… the opponent trained and voluntarily entered the fight, if he couldn’t hang or was being beaten then let it be a lesson learned. either quit fighting and just train, or train harder… it’s embarassing to martial arts and fighters what happened, lack of fighting spirit…
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]Silyak wrote:
There is honor in beating a worthy opponent. By refusing to accept the victory, you imply that your opponent was not worthy of you and that you don’t respect the sport.
Sort of like if I’m wrestling with my 3 year-old son, I might let him ‘win.’ I recognize that he isn’t really a worthy opponent and that it serves no purpose to just pin him over and over again.
By beating an opponent soundly using your best effort, you recognize that your opponent is a competent threat and that you respect the sport for its own sake. You acknowledge his courage shown by continuing to fight even though he is clearly getting the worst of most exchanges. [/quote]
I think the pugilistic aspect needs to be considered. A fighters chin is a finite resource, you may have an iron one today, next month it could become glass… It’s not like chins or the ability to take punishment to the head and organs improves with a fighters life. The more you get the lights turned out the easier it is.
So in a situation where neither guy felt they had anything to gain, especially the guy who was laying the beating down, I don’t see anything wrong other than… If he were so skilled he should have subbed the guy, being amateurs he may have just had some decent striking and not been confident in his ground game… Guy had no real business in there with him trying to standup, and he got reversed on the ground, couldn’t get a simple trip of a single leg. [/quote]
As far as not wanting to seriously hurt the other guy, it’s a fighting sport. They have referees and medical professionals whose job it is to avoid serious injuries. If a fighter thinks it’s his job to make sure his opponent doesn’t get hurt too bad, he’s in the wrong sport. In training this could make sense but not in a competition.
As far as the full fight video, it supports the tapper was a dick angle. Yeah, the other guy was getting beaten in standup and on the ground. But the tapper hadn’t been able to finish him. It’s not like guys don’t win fights from behind all the time.
[quote]Silyak wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]Silyak wrote:
There is honor in beating a worthy opponent. By refusing to accept the victory, you imply that your opponent was not worthy of you and that you don’t respect the sport.
Sort of like if I’m wrestling with my 3 year-old son, I might let him ‘win.’ I recognize that he isn’t really a worthy opponent and that it serves no purpose to just pin him over and over again.
By beating an opponent soundly using your best effort, you recognize that your opponent is a competent threat and that you respect the sport for its own sake. You acknowledge his courage shown by continuing to fight even though he is clearly getting the worst of most exchanges. [/quote]
I think the pugilistic aspect needs to be considered. A fighters chin is a finite resource, you may have an iron one today, next month it could become glass… It’s not like chins or the ability to take punishment to the head and organs improves with a fighters life. The more you get the lights turned out the easier it is.
So in a situation where neither guy felt they had anything to gain, especially the guy who was laying the beating down, I don’t see anything wrong other than… If he were so skilled he should have subbed the guy, being amateurs he may have just had some decent striking and not been confident in his ground game… Guy had no real business in there with him trying to standup, and he got reversed on the ground, couldn’t get a simple trip of a single leg. [/quote]
As far as not wanting to seriously hurt the other guy, it’s a fighting sport. They have referees and medical professionals whose job it is to avoid serious injuries. If a fighter thinks it’s his job to make sure his opponent doesn’t get hurt too bad, he’s in the wrong sport. In training this could make sense but not in a competition.
As far as the full fight video, it supports the tapper was a dick angle. Yeah, the other guy was getting beaten in standup and on the ground. But the tapper hadn’t been able to finish him. It’s not like guys don’t win fights from behind all the time. [/quote]
Professional football players try to hurt each other. Amateur football players don’t. Yes, this is a different sport, but I still think the pro/am distinction is relevant. Professional athletes are more likely to be willing to sacrifice their bodies (and the bodies of their opponents for that matter) when a stack of cash is at the end of the tunnel.
That being said, after watching the whole video, I agree that the tapper got ahead of himself. He was winning the fight, not dominating it. The other guy certainly had a reasonable chance of winning legitimately, and he clearly wasn’t happy about the tap. I feel like either the tapper has an over-inflated ego, or something outside of the ring was at play here, as others have mentioned.
Only asshole professional football players try to hurt each other. That doesn’t mean they don’t accept that they may hurt somebody and/or get hurt themselves. But the decent and balanced ones aren’t trying to hurt the other guy, at least not in a serious and permanent way.
MMA is another step, since there really is no other way to win than to inflict damage on the other guy. However, even in MMA there is an important distinction between understanding and accepting that you might suffer serious/permanent injury (and that your opponent has accepted and understands the same) and actively trying to make that happen to your opponent. Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge and accept the distinction is probably not a good fit for MMA.
Holy shit, I used to train with that kid’s coach. Didn’t notice that in the short version of the video lol I still don’t like it, but I will say he comes from a good team and I’m sure they’ll get it straightened out.
Ok, yeah the guy’s a dick. He got some good shots in, but it wasn’t like the other guy was shrinking away or looked dazed or anything. He may have been worse than the other guy but shit, you have 2 good minutes of fighting and decide your so much better than someone who CLEARLY was still ready to keep coming at you and wanted to continue?
I saw a fight in the UFC where the guy rocked the other guy with a shot, the guy fell down and clearly was dazed/out of it and the first guy hesitated for maybe the half second he looked at the ref expecting the fight to be called, then proceeded to pummel the guy’s face in for the next couple seconds even though he wasn’t defending himself because in the ref’s eyes, the fight wasn’t over. Ref made a bad call not calling it sooner, but the fight wasn’t over.
Yeah, you may have had the opportunity to “potentially” hurt the other guy, but that’s the case in EVERY fight. Not nearly the sportsman he was made out to be.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:
It was the first round, right? Maybe the other kid is a slow starter, maybe he just isn’t a good striker and was having trouble getting a takedown, you know? It isn’t like he was really beating the brakes off him, the kid was still coming forward with a his hands up.[/quote]
This is the “full” fight. The guy tapped himself out around 3:30 into the first round:
I’d say he was winning that round (so far), but he wasn’t dominating the guy. And he clearly seemed like stand-up specialist with limited grappling ability (he wasn’t sinking the chokes after multiple attempts). MMA isn’t like basketball. If you’re winning bball 9-2 in a game to 11, then for sure it’s a blowout. In MMA, freak comebacks happen all the time, from a quick knockout to sinking in an unexpected choke or armbar (just ask Sonnen).
I took a quick look around and just from what I saw online, the guy who ended up with the win has at least like a 2-2 record, so he’s reasonably experienced, not some schlub off the street. Tapping out like the guy did was, at best, a dick move that now put an asterisk on this other guy’s record, and at worst, a suspicious publicity-grab for this amateur fight league.[/quote]
Thanks for finding that. I wasn’t sure what I thought w/o watching the whole fight.
The guy who quit was a stand up guy and was winning. But I agree, it wasn’t such a dominant performance that he needed to tap. He’s a stand up guy…he SHOULD be trying to knock the other guy out.
After only the first video, I could kinda see the point…after watching the whole thing:
- I don’t think he should have tapped
- He should learn how to fight on the ground if he doesn’t want to knock someone out.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Silyak wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]Silyak wrote:
There is honor in beating a worthy opponent. By refusing to accept the victory, you imply that your opponent was not worthy of you and that you don’t respect the sport.
Sort of like if I’m wrestling with my 3 year-old son, I might let him ‘win.’ I recognize that he isn’t really a worthy opponent and that it serves no purpose to just pin him over and over again.
By beating an opponent soundly using your best effort, you recognize that your opponent is a competent threat and that you respect the sport for its own sake. You acknowledge his courage shown by continuing to fight even though he is clearly getting the worst of most exchanges. [/quote]
I think the pugilistic aspect needs to be considered. A fighters chin is a finite resource, you may have an iron one today, next month it could become glass… It’s not like chins or the ability to take punishment to the head and organs improves with a fighters life. The more you get the lights turned out the easier it is.
So in a situation where neither guy felt they had anything to gain, especially the guy who was laying the beating down, I don’t see anything wrong other than… If he were so skilled he should have subbed the guy, being amateurs he may have just had some decent striking and not been confident in his ground game… Guy had no real business in there with him trying to standup, and he got reversed on the ground, couldn’t get a simple trip of a single leg. [/quote]
As far as not wanting to seriously hurt the other guy, it’s a fighting sport. They have referees and medical professionals whose job it is to avoid serious injuries. If a fighter thinks it’s his job to make sure his opponent doesn’t get hurt too bad, he’s in the wrong sport. In training this could make sense but not in a competition.
As far as the full fight video, it supports the tapper was a dick angle. Yeah, the other guy was getting beaten in standup and on the ground. But the tapper hadn’t been able to finish him. It’s not like guys don’t win fights from behind all the time. [/quote]
Professional football players try to hurt each other. Amateur football players don’t. Yes, this is a different sport, but I still think the pro/am distinction is relevant. Professional athletes are more likely to be willing to sacrifice their bodies (and the bodies of their opponents for that matter) when a stack of cash is at the end of the tunnel.
That being said, after watching the whole video, I agree that the tapper got ahead of himself. He was winning the fight, not dominating it. The other guy certainly had a reasonable chance of winning legitimately, and he clearly wasn’t happy about the tap. I feel like either the tapper has an over-inflated ego, or something outside of the ring was at play here, as others have mentioned.[/quote]
he doesn’t have an over-inflated ego, he has an under-inflated one… get your facts right you karate noob
edit3: keep rollin rollin rollin rollin
triple h would have done the same thing ok