Interesting take on things.
No doubt the media, and fear-mongering pundits from all walks of life, want to make this seem like the worst thing we’ve ever endured, and it sure as fuck isn’t…
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Interesting take on things.
No doubt the media, and fear-mongering pundits from all walks of life, want to make this seem like the worst thing we’ve ever endured, and it sure as fuck isn’t… [/quote]
Yes, tough times for sure but with history as a guide, we are not facing anything we have not overcome before.
The real test for Obama will be how he performs. Not that he was elected with black skin.
His election symbolizes a turning point decades in the making no doubt, but he is now our president and has a country to run. May the hype die down and the reality of our current political and economic situation again take the forefront of our attention.
I hope he performs well. Time will tell.
Never ran a business or worked in the private sector. Has no education in economics or finance yet is expected to guide the economy.
No military experience but is the commander in chief.
Expected to unify the partisan rift but is a product of the Chicago machine and was rated as the most liberal senator in Washington.
What could possibly go wrong?
I too hope he performs well. His background doesn’t instill confidence.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Never ran a business or worked in the private sector. Has no education in economics or finance yet is expected to guide the economy.
No military experience but is the commander in chief.
Expected to unify the partisan rift but is a product of the Chicago machine and was rated as the most liberal senator in Washington.
What could possibly go wrong?
I too hope he performs well. His background doesn’t instill confidence. [/quote]
Strange times indeed.
Hype and group think are scary forces. What qualifications? Supporting Obama is the cool thing to do, right?
Hopefully the check and balance system will not fail us even if Obama does.
And hopefully Obama is a quick learner and does perform well, even if it is at the suggestions of advisers.
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
“This is not the Great Depression”
Neither was the Great Depression, in the beginning. It didn’t get really bad until the gov. started trying to fix things with bailouts and work projects.
And back then, USA didn’t owe the world a tonne of money
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
“This is not the Great Depression”
Neither was the Great Depression, in the beginning. It didn’t get really bad until the gov. started trying to fix things with bailouts and work projects.
And back then, USA didn’t owe the world a tonne of money
[/quote]
Well yeah. And there was a huge freakin’ drought that devastated farms and started a massive dust bowl. That REALLY didn’t help considering we we’re mostly farmers back then…
there was a helluva lot more going on than a stupid drought.
it is not wise to start defending today by trying to pin the disasters of the past on specific things that are not happening today. in the hope that things will be ok today.
back then USA actually produced stuff, today you mostly consume stuff made by others. you are not even farmers. you think a drought is bad? droughts are temporary. What are you going to do when countries like china start having a taste for the foods you enjoy, and there are food shortages and you can’t afford food anymore because you can’t compete? what’s that like a permanent drought? you think that can’t happen? it is already happening
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
there was a helluva lot more going on than a stupid drought.
it is not wise to start defending today by trying to pin the disasters of the past on specific things that are not happening today. in the hope that things will be ok today.
back then USA actually produced stuff, today you mostly consume stuff made by others. you are not even farmers. you think a drought is bad? droughts are temporary. What are you going to do when countries like china start having a taste for the foods you enjoy, and there are food shortages and you can’t afford food anymore because you can’t compete? what’s that like a permanent drought? you think that can’t happen? it is already happening[/quote]
Excellent and scary points. It is true that many of the contributing factors to the Great Depression are moot points now, but we absolutely do face a new set of issues.
Hopefully our network of political allies and economic partnerships will help us maintain our strength. It is sad we rely on leveraging goods and political favors to maintain our status though.
And hopefully OPEC is brought under control and we again dominate today’s crucial commodity in which case all bets against us are off, regardless of China’s development. Oil is today’s manufacturing sector in regards to power.
It would be great to see a nationalistic president over an international president. Balance our relationships sure Mr. President, but remember you serve the American people.
I would like to see tighter border patrol and tougher immigration laws, higher tariffs on foreign goods, a reversion to the gold standard, stricter and more heavily enforced punishment on companies hiring illegals and generally a president and gov’t who gives America back to Americans.
I don’t think Obama will fit this role. In fact I think chunks of america, economic, political and otherwise will be sold off in favor of a more unified world gov’t.
The world is full of developed and underdeveloped countries. Joining plights will pull those of us on top down and those on the bottom up as we even out during the merge. I really don’t want to be around for the inevitable decline a world gov’t will bring to those who control most of the world’s assets in the time being. And it won’t just be the US either.
[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…[/quote]
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly. [/quote]
Never happen.
With the lack of integrity Democrats show towards elections that’s 20 Million voters they can’t count on. Why do you think they oppose voter id, registration etc.
[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly. [/quote]
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
[quote]orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
[/quote]
Consumers of what? Tax payer funded services?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
Consumers of what? Tax payer funded services?[/quote]
That too.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
Consumers of what? Tax payer funded services?[/quote]
Exactly.
[quote]orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
[/quote]
If garage sales and second hand consumerism count in our economy it could possibly make a dent.
But it really doesn’t.
Most illegals pay cash (as they are paid in cash to stay under the radar) for items they buy off of people second hand.
Sure the people selling various items have cash to turn around and spend on new products but I highly doubt the deficit of deporting illegals would be catastrophic. Many illegals still have family at home too and send money from our economy back home, taking it out of circulation here anyways.
And you would have created 20 million jobs, we have something like 11 million unemployed people so at least a few million positions would be filled, off-setting the impact deporting illegals would have on our economy. The 20 million illegals would be gone, but 11 million people would again have to chance to earn and would contribute spending power to the economy once again.
And market value for certain trades and jobs would increase. More money would be payed even if to fewer employees and it would be recycled back through the economy and tax system.
It is true that construction, contracting and general labor companies hire illegals for below minimum wage and pay them cash.
Lose 2 illegals at $4 per hour ($4 that are not taxed) and pick up 2 american citizens or legal immigrants at $15 dollars an hour and you have actually given the economy a bump, at least on the consumer side. Kazaam! I love magic tricks!
[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
If garage sales and second hand consumerism count in our economy it could possibly make a dent.
But it really doesn’t.
Most illegals pay cash (as they are paid in cash to stay under the radar) for items they buy off of people second hand.
Sure the people selling various items have cash to turn around and spend on new products but I highly doubt the deficit of deporting illegals would be catastrophic. Many illegals still have family at home too and send money from our economy back home, taking it out of circulation here anyways.
And you would have created 20 million jobs, we have something like 11 million unemployed people so at least a few million positions would be filled, off-setting the impact deporting illegals would have on our economy. The 20 million illegals would be gone, but 11 million people would again have to chance to earn and would contribute spending power to the economy once again.
And market value for certain trades and jobs would increase. More money would be payed even if to fewer employees and it would be recycled back through the economy and tax system.
It is true that construction, contracting and general labor companies hire illegals for below minimum wage and pay them cash.
Lose 2 illegals at $4 per hour ($4 that are not taxed) and pick up 2 american citizens or legal immigrants at $15 dollars an hour and you have actually given the economy a bump, at least on the consumer side. Kazaam! I love magic tricks!
[/quote]
A) in what economy does buying and selling not count irregardless of who sells what to whom?
B) You assume that the 2 4$ dollar an hour jobs would be done by Americans at 15$ an hour if the 4$ an hour labor force was gone.
That is obviously wrong, because prices matter. I might buy something at 4$ that I will most definitely not buy at 15$ an hour.
So, these people do not take jobs away from higher paid people, they do work that would not be done otherwise.
At least not in the US.
[quote]orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
orion wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
I am just dying to see him create 3 million jobs out of thin air…
Yes. The ultimate magic show.
I have an idea though. Supposedly there were between fifteen and twenty million illegals in the US in 2004 and the numbers have only gone up.
Round them up, remember they are here illegally, and deport them.
20 million jobs. Blue collar sure, but jobs none the less. Kazaam!
Wages would rise too. It is not a lie that construction, plumbing and other similar jobs have decreased pay as illegals take increasingly lower amounts of compensation.
Bring the market value back and you have a decent, blue collar living compared to $10 hourly.
20 million less consumers, Kazaam, American economy collapses.
If garage sales and second hand consumerism count in our economy it could possibly make a dent.
But it really doesn’t.
Most illegals pay cash (as they are paid in cash to stay under the radar) for items they buy off of people second hand.
Sure the people selling various items have cash to turn around and spend on new products but I highly doubt the deficit of deporting illegals would be catastrophic. Many illegals still have family at home too and send money from our economy back home, taking it out of circulation here anyways.
And you would have created 20 million jobs, we have something like 11 million unemployed people so at least a few million positions would be filled, off-setting the impact deporting illegals would have on our economy. The 20 million illegals would be gone, but 11 million people would again have to chance to earn and would contribute spending power to the economy once again.
And market value for certain trades and jobs would increase. More money would be payed even if to fewer employees and it would be recycled back through the economy and tax system.
It is true that construction, contracting and general labor companies hire illegals for below minimum wage and pay them cash.
Lose 2 illegals at $4 per hour ($4 that are not taxed) and pick up 2 american citizens or legal immigrants at $15 dollars an hour and you have actually given the economy a bump, at least on the consumer side. Kazaam! I love magic tricks!
A) in what economy does buying and selling not count irregardless of who sells what to whom?
B) You assume that the 2 4$ dollar an hour jobs would be done by Americans at 15$ an hour if the 4$ an hour labor force was gone.
That is obviously wrong, because prices matter. I might buy something at 4$ that I will most definitely not buy at 15$ an hour.
So, these people do not take jobs away from higher paid people, they do work that would not be done otherwise.
At least not in the US.
[/quote]
A) In an economy where the money is never reported or recycled back in to the economy. Instead, it is sent to Mexico, China or what have you.
B) Yes. And the work is done by Americans and legal immigrants in Union states. People will work construction, plumbing, welding and other labor jobs when the price is right. We used to have an entire blue collar class who did this. No, they will not do it for the amount an illegal will.
The illegal does not belong here to begin with. Kick him out and replace him with an American who will do the work for a fair price. And will be properly certified and capable of delivering quality work rather than being picked up at a parking lot for a day rate as a “plumber” one day and “construction” the next.
Prices on products and services will rise, yes. Put tarriffs in place and bring our manufacturing operations back home. Hire more people. More money will be available domestically to buy higher priced products.
You will buy a higher price if it is what you have available. And supply and demand will still be in effect. A price will only rise as high as consumers will buy. A company’s bottom line might drop but it would be because the money was flowing out to qualified workers, which is acceptable in my book.
Nationalism is a beautiful thing when your country is still vying for the top spot. We could keep it too, but we unfortunately would prefer to sell ourselves out be part of a global shit pile it would seem.
Criminal aliens (aka crimaliens) should be deported as soon as they are located. It would be one thing if they were contributing to the welfare of this nation by paying taxes, but they are sponging off of the system (e.g. healthcare, education, housing assitance, etc.). And the Democrats will cater to these folks in order to get re-elected. (How illegals can vote - that is a whole different issue).