T4 (Levothyroxine) Effectiveness

Pharma
1

I wasn’t sure where to post this… so I’m going to post it here…

I?m interested in T4’s effectiveness with fat loss compared to T3 which is obviously more popular than T4 in this matter…

I?m planning to do a cutting cycle in April next year… I know. I gotta long time ahead of me… I’m bulking now…

Planning to use ephedrine, albuterol, T4, ketotifen, proviron…
I must emphasize that ALL of the substances I mentioned can be obtained from pharmacies, cuz I leave in the Balkans… and NO prescription needed whatsoever … except for the ephedrine… all they care is the $$$ hahaha

Now im just interested if any of you had any experience with T4… cuz it really easy for me to obtain it…

I have previously done a cutting cycle with beta-agonists… so i know a lot about them… interested in what the addition of T4 will do…

And yea… im natural so far, and dont plan to use AAS in the near future… just theese cutting cycles… (**cked up genetics :S )

Also know that T4 is an artificial hormone, and theese stuff are dangerous… So don’t give me that “go do cardio workouts” lecture… cuz i DO … as i said… genetics…

2

6’5, 182lbs, and you want to use T4? i dont get it.

3

its actualy 206lbs… got confused converting units… i use kg’s lol…

and this is my “cut” weight… i maintained it troughout the summer… so from the 1st of oct i’m starting with the bulking…

i know… im planning waaay ahead… but i want to do as much reseach as possible…

4

You can do more damage than good supplementing thyroid if you don’t know what you are doing and with no offense to anyone who posts on here this is far too complex for some internet guru to address effectively. Thyroid supplementation and choosing the right one depends on a continium which includes thyroid, insulin and cortisol.

Do yourself a favor and either get a doctor to monitor your bloodwork and do it under their supervision or better yet, don’t rely on drugs…learn a little more about physiology and what to eat and then supplement as needed. The pharmaceuticals you have listed can be PART of a cutting cycle but if that is all you are taking you clearly have a lot to learn before you should consider ANY of them. I am not trying to be a dick but, too many people rely on the internet for drug advice and “F” themselves up.

5

the drugs you have listed tend to be catabolic (depending on the person) and most of the guys around here wont advise the use of them if you arent on an anabolic cycle.

so im backing up laroyal on this one, dont screw with these drugs. If your “bulking” and need to use drugs to cut, your bulking the wrong way, no matter what your genetics are.

6

well… last year i got pretty fat…236… started coledge… abandoned bb for a while… then i got pissed off… and started on a strict regimen…calculated calorie intake… did the complete “The Waterbury Summer Project”… played by the book… lost arround 30lbs in 3 months… (used clenbuterol and ketotofen… and then changed it so albuterol … due to lots of sides from the clen)

now im starting a PROPER BULKING from the 1st of oct… until april next year… when im planing to do this cutting cycle…

never had abs… and im willing to lose a little more muscle on that… without the support of aas… ( dont plan on using them, until my genetics fail to do more)…

now im reseaching the additon of T4 to nextyears cutting cycle… and i need some guys with experience here… i also want to know the effectiveness of the T4 versus the T3(which i cannot obtain) and the T4 costs 3$ for 20x100mcg tablets…

My genetis are skinny/fat … the worst possible … i know…

7

Everyone here is going to suggest against this idea you have. You dont have any amounts of muscle to spare and potentially lose at this point.

Im just going to tell you what you dont want to hear and that its time to clean up your diet and add in more cardio instead of trying to rely on drugs to get lean.

8

ok heres a very simple way of putting it,not because I think you are simple but becasue I myself am very simple and I need to put things this way :wink:

t-4 is kind of like a freezer hormone.It converts to T3 ,if you need T-3 for whatever reason then the T-4 will be there to convert .
if you do not need T-3 then it will do next to nothing.

T-3 is the active hormone,if you overload our system with it you shut down your own production.

t-4 is used at higher doses compaired to T-3 but is still effective because when you diet and exersize hard your thyroid seems to slow down and you need more T-3.
so by using t-4 you can maximise your production of t-3 without overloading yourself with the hormnes.

both need to be used with caution because they both can shut down your thyroid and then you will be depedant on these drugs for life.
now I will tell you for the record you should not take these. at all
at 200 pounds you dont even need to cut
if you clean up your diet and work hard you will be able to add more muscle without much more fat and you can do all this naturaly

EDIT: i had these backwards so had to change it.

9

Your lifestyle choices are at the core of your problem. Post your diet and I will gladly make some suggestions, getting abs is easier than you think! Taking beta agonistis depletes your adrenals raises corticsol which will contribute to insulin RESISTANCE and inhibit di-iodinase enzyme necessasary to convert t4 to ACTIVE t3 so if you want to burn out your adrenals and end up a skinnyfat version of what you are bulking to than by all means do what you have planned but, if you want abs, health and a physique that works as good as it looks you need to re work your nutritional approach.

10

Thanks a lot Nich… I’ve read somewhere that T4 is safer than T3… i just could’t remember where and why… The thing is i wont be 200 when i finish bulking… and they sure wont be very pretty. :slight_smile:

and laroyal… just exploring my options here… havent sealed the deal just yet :slight_smile: …

btw im working on improving my insulin sensitiviry… takin in a LOT of omega 3 fish oil pills… and also 4-5 cups a day green tea…

thanks for all the replies guys…

11

A great trick I learned to improve insulin sensitivity from Charles Poliquin is: take cinnamon (use actual stick cinnamon not the extract) boil it in h20, with baking soda (about 1/2 tsp/ liter of h20) and sea salt.

12

thanks… :slight_smile:

but can I use for example 5gr of grinded cinnamon with my morning oatmeal… would that be sufficient? 10gr maybe… ooor i should try this reccepie you gave me, although, I couldn’t find those cinnamon sticks in my neighbourhood�??s grocery store…

13

The cinnamon sticks are in most grocery stores, I would grind up the exuivelant of 1 Tablespoon of cinnamon, mixed in a litre of h2o with the 1/2 tsp of baking powder and sea salt and sip it before and between meals.

14

neither one of these hormones are safer per se
they both can mess you up if your not careful

use them only after alot of reading and exploring

coach thibs actually has alot of great suggestions to improve insulin sensetivity and they do not include drugs
try them first and see what happens
just search around you will find them

16

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
laroyal wrote:
A great trick I learned to improve insulin sensitivity from Charles Poliquin is: take cinnamon (use actual stick cinnamon not the extract) boil it in h20, with baking soda (about 1/2 tsp/ liter of h20) and sea salt.

Wow, that’s different to anything I’ve heard of before, lol.

Not trying to diss the big man CP but is there any sort of documented evidence or theory I can read associated with this please.

Cheers
Bushy

PS I agree with you that thyroid hormone is probably best left alone as the hypothalamic-thyroidal-axis does seem to be quite unpredictable and fragile in a lot of people.[/quote]
The exact recipie is in Jonny Bowden’s 150 healthiest foods. I don’t have my book with me (I am actually in Tampa right now).

17

well, if you’re gonna use thyroid, use T-3 and not T-4. T-4 is simply ineffective as a fat burner in a healthy person, or even in someone that’s hypothyroid.

like the other guys said, T-3 is active, and T-4 needs to convert.

my throid’s been messed up since i was in Iraq, and i’ve been on T-4 for the better part of two years, with NO noticeable loss in fat. i got some “research” T-3, and added that briefly to see the effect, and lost 10lbs of bodyfat realively quickly.

and as a word of caution: having a fucked up thyroid gland sucks…not only do you add bodyfat quicker(i gained around 50lbs in two years), your cholesterol goes up (due to less tyroid activity), your energy levels drop, and most doctors are morons when it comes to treating disorders like this.

do a Google search for hypothyroidsim, and you’ll see a lot of controversy over how to effectivly treat this disorder…

18

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
well, if you’re gonna use thyroid, use T-3 and not T-4. T-4 is simply ineffective as a fat burner in a healthy person, or even in someone that’s hypothyroid.

like the other guys said, T-3 is active, and T-4 needs to convert.

my throid’s been messed up since i was in Iraq, and i’ve been on T-4 for the better part of two years, with NO noticeable loss in fat. i got some “research” T-3, and added that briefly to see the effect, and lost 10lbs of bodyfat realively quickly.

and as a word of caution: having a fucked up thyroid gland sucks…not only do you add bodyfat quicker(i gained around 50lbs in two years), your cholesterol goes up (due to less tyroid activity), your energy levels drop, and most doctors are morons when it comes to treating disorders like this.

do a Google search for hypothyroidsim, and you’ll see a lot of controversy over how to effectivly treat this disorder…[/quote]

This is just wrong, I know personally pros who use T4 and ones who use T3, and some who use both. Bottom line, if you don’t know what you are doing you will chew up hard earned muscle and end up on thyroid meds for support of your skinny fat frame.

Read all you want on the internet but without BLOODWORK there is NO way to know what to use and how to use it and even with bloodwork it is important to know how to analyze the data. I can’t believe this is still even being suggested.

Why in the hell would anyone with a bit of knowledge use “research” grade T3? You can’t even standardize the dose and as little as 6.25 mgs can make a difference!!

Besides if your T4 is not converting it could be due to to anti-thyroid antibodies low conversion factor or I/C/Th continium to name just a few of many possibilities and adding t3 would not fix the problem just provide a bandain and mask it. DO NOT USE THYROID WITHOUT DR SUPPERVISION!!!

19

right now i dont have much to worry about… stil have a lot of time ahead of me before the pre-summer cutting fase. As for T4, im not quite sure what to do just yet, and wont be in the near future. So for now, alonside my bulking i’ll try to increase my insulin sensitiviry to (hopefuly) get more quality gains and have less trouble with the cutting…

i’ll deffinitely do a hormone check for the T3, T4 and then we’ll have this talk again… :slight_smile:

Thanks again for all of your replies. they were VERY helpful!

b.t.w awesome forum :slight_smile:

20

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
laroyal wrote:
A great trick I learned to improve insulin sensitivity from Charles Poliquin is: take cinnamon (use actual stick cinnamon not the extract) boil it in h20, with baking soda (about 1/2 tsp/ liter of h20) and sea salt.

Wow, that’s different to anything I’ve heard of before, lol.

Not trying to diss the big man CP but is there any sort of documented evidence or theory I can read associated with this please.

Cheers
Bushy

PS I agree with you that thyroid hormone is probably best left alone as the hypothalamic-thyroidal-axis does seem to be quite unpredictable and fragile in a lot of people.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of the recipe that CP speaks of, but cinnamon has some interesting research going for it. Its early so I’m copping out on the pubmed ninjaing, but check it out for yourself.

I imagine it would taste really funky though.