T4 & T3

Hey guys I am on synthroid from my Dr but it does nothing and he does not know I get copies of my blood work and my T3 levels are on the very low range of ‘normal’ My question is I am going to add some cytomel to my T4 should I take it same time as my T4? and should I start with 12.5 or 25mcg? my T4 is 50mcg’s but I have extra so I could take 100mcg’s for a few months before my surplus ran out. my main goal is weight loss of it, thanks guys

How long have you been on Synthyroid for? What is your TSH? 50 mcg of T4 is an intermediate dose, usually that amount gets increased until you get to your eventual ending dose. For example, I started at 50 mcg and bumped up 25 mcg every 6 months until I was able to get my TSH < 1 at a dose of 125 mcg.

If it’s truly doing nothing, perhaps your dosing needs to be increased. I would explore that route before adding T3.

<----------- Not an MD.

you a steroid user Pangy? Don’t feel you need to answer that if you don’t want to

TRT, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious was a little (or big) bump in the dosage would accomplish.

Also, I find drug sub-cultures fascinating with their oral and written traditions. Here’s an substance that’s illegal in the States, making getting good information about it’s use difficult, yet all these people come together and share knowledge for the betterment of the community.

It’s really fascinating. I always found the Erowid Experience Vaults interesting for the same reasons, although I was able to participate much more over there, lol.

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
TRT, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious was a little (or big) bump in the dosage would accomplish.

Also, I find drug sub-cultures fascinating with their oral and written traditions. Here’s an substance that’s illegal in the States, making getting good information about it’s use difficult, yet all these people come together and share knowledge for the betterment of the community.

It’s really fascinating. I always found the Erowid Experience Vaults interesting for the same reasons, although I was able to participate much more over there, lol.
[/quote]

join us on the Darkside! Mwa ha ha

If I was on TRT I’d just randomly do a few weeks of anavar here or there. Why not, eh?

Yogi ask in private … thanks for the reply my man…my DR is a dope I have been asking him for Amour for 2 yrs…been on 3 yrs…I do not have my labs in front of me…but my levels are hypothyroid levels and T3 is always just in ‘normal’ range but normal does mean optimal…I had graves disease for 4 yrs (hyperthyroid) and was on tapazole and it slowed me down to a crawl so between that and sugery I gained weight,now I am gonna fight again (MMA) and need to get my weight down. (I am on TRT also)

Find a new doctor, man. If I had to give up my TRT or my T4, I’d give up my TRT in an instant. That’s what a difference Synthroid made to me. I corrected my thyroid, then got on TRT but I couldn’t imagine TRT could overcome the fatigue I felt from hypothyroidism.

I don’t mean to talk down to you if you already know all this, but your T4 is like long-term storage and your T3 is short-term storage. Your body stores T4 then converts that to T3 as necessary. It might be that your T3 is low because your T4 dose is still insufficient. Don’t let your doc tell you your cured just because your TSH might be within range. I had to get mine below 1 before I felt %100 again.

T4 has a nice, long half-life. T3 has a very short half-life, you’re going to be taking it anywhere from 3-6 times a day.

Also, take it easy on Yogi. He’s good people. We don’t have PMs on this site, so sometimes threads get a bit sidetracked, but we accept it because the signal to noise ratio on this site is so much higher than others.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

PS: Yogi, legal reasons in the States makes getting stuff too risky for my circumstances.

[quote]fightu35 wrote:
Hey guys I am on synthroid from my Dr but it does nothing and he does not know I get copies of my blood work and my T3 levels are on the very low range of ‘normal’ My question is I am going to add some cytomel to my T4 should I take it same time as my T4? and should I start with 12.5 or 25mcg? my T4 is 50mcg’s but I have extra so I could take 100mcg’s for a few months before my surplus ran out. my main goal is weight loss of it, thanks guys[/quote]

well, i did this a while back, and thought i could stop the T3 a couple weeks before a blood test and it would bounce back quick. it did not… it was pretty clear i was using something other than T4…

i agree about getting a different doc… explain that you want “optimal” levels, and see how that goes. personally, i can’t seem to find a doc that’ll make that move, but also getting some extra T4 isn’t too hard…

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Find a new doctor, man. If I had to give up my TRT or my T4, I’d give up my TRT in an instant. That’s what a difference Synthroid made to me. I corrected my thyroid, then got on TRT but I couldn’t imagine TRT could overcome the fatigue I felt from hypothyroidism.

I don’t mean to talk down to you if you already know all this, but your T4 is like long-term storage and your T3 is short-term storage. Your body stores T4 then converts that to T3 as necessary. It might be that your T3 is low because your T4 dose is still insufficient. Don’t let your doc tell you your cured just because your TSH might be within range. I had to get mine below 1 before I felt %100 again.

T4 has a nice, long half-life. T3 has a very short half-life, you’re going to be taking it anywhere from 3-6 times a day.

Also, take it easy on Yogi. He’s good people. We don’t have PMs on this site, so sometimes threads get a bit sidetracked, but we accept it because the signal to noise ratio on this site is so much higher than others.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

PS: Yogi, legal reasons in the States makes getting stuff too risky for my circumstances.

[/quote]
only kidding with Yogi…are saying TRT made u tired? also…another big debate is to take T3 all at once or spread out?? which do u recommend? My last blood work my T4 was in the range that stats hypothyroid…and my T3 was low end of normal…should I take them together in the AM? and thank u very much for the BS reply… PS I have extra T4 for my DR should I try to bump from 50mcgs to 100? if so do I still add the T3?

What was your TSH?

Take T3 throughout the day, it has a very short half-life. You could bump T4 up to 100mcg - it would be aggressive, though - and drop back down to 75 if you start having sides. Then get your bloods taken again in 6 weeks.

I was not offended by the remark, and it was only supposed to be a slight aside rather than a full bore highjack

y’all are cool with me (especially you Pangy you exquisite little tart)

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
What was your TSH?

You could bump T4 up to 100mcg - [/quote]
bump up and still add the T3? my T3 is 25mcg per tab…thanks again

If it were me, I’d get a copy of my labs. Without those levels, including TSH, you’re shooting in the dark.

Then I’d get my Synthyroid levels dialed in and forget about the T3. Work on your diet to achieve your goal of weight loss.

I think from a health and goal standpoint, the T3 only muddies things up. My understanding - although I have no first hand knowledge - is that T3 is too aggressive for the natural athlete, and since you’re only on TRT, you are for our intents and purposes natural.

How much weight do you have to lose, how much time do you have to lose it, what does your diet look like, what does your training look like, etc.

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
If it were me, I’d get a copy of my labs. Without those levels, including TSH, you’re shooting in the dark.

At last check all levels where in the range of having hypothyroidism… I will try to find last copy…

Then I’d get my Synthyroid levels dialed in and forget about the T3. Work on your diet to achieve your goal of weight loss.
----My endo dr will not allow it as he will not go up in dose…

I think from a health and goal standpoint, the T3 only muddies things up. My understanding - although I have no first hand knowledge - is that T3 is too aggressive for the natural athlete, and since you’re only on TRT, you are for our intents and purposes natural.

How much weight do you have to lose, how much time do you have to lose it, what does your diet look like, what does your training look like, etc.[/quote]

I used T3 yrs ago when I was not on T4 it worked great…I have about 30 lbs to lose, diet is no problem,time is more of the problem, but im not interested in T3 just for weight loss, I feel I need it, I was thinking of getting Armour from a website (T4 & T3 in 1 pill) I asked for this and he said no, levels are ‘normal’ but he did know I had a copy and my T3 well at bottom level of ‘normal’ Thank u again.

Find out what your TSH is, don’t let the doc tell you “normal”. I was within range and felt like shit. Again, bumping up T4 may very well take care of your T3 levels and with much better (more stable, less hassle) results.

I think the focus on T3 is a bit misguided. I like cars so I’m going to use a car analogy: You’re debating between adding either a Borla or Corsa exhaust to your car to increase it’s performance, but you’re ignoring the flat front tire.

Whatever you choose, good luck and let us know how it works out.

i think a lot of docs don’t like Armour because it seems like a pseudo medication… maybe your doc would be more inclined to try out Thyrolar (which is a mix of T3/T4)?

[quote]fightu35 wrote:

I used T3 yrs ago when I was not on T4 it worked great…[/quote]

What is your opinion of the conventional wisdom that T3 is too catabolic for the unassisted lifter?

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i think a lot of docs don’t like Armour because it seems like a pseudo medication… maybe your doc would be more inclined to try out Thyrolar (which is a mix of T3/T4)?[/quote]

Armour is a mix no?

What is your opinion of the conventional wisdom that T3 is too catabolic for the unassisted lifter?
[/quote]

I do not buy it…eat and lift right= no muscle loss…I gained 3lbs of muscle and was as strong as ever…

[quote]fightu35 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i think a lot of docs don’t like Armour because it seems like a pseudo medication… maybe your doc would be more inclined to try out Thyrolar (which is a mix of T3/T4)?[/quote]

Armour is a mix no?[/quote]

yeah, but it’s a desiccated porcine formula (or at least it was, for a long time), and many docs think it’s not as effective as conventional pharmaceutical products…

with that being said, i don’t think i’ve ever heard anyone complain about how they feel on Armour. i literally feel no difference on T4, and only notice a difference if i add in T3…