@The_Myth I didn’t do much beyond tweak assistance and clarify sets and reps. Ben set the lift order out, but I certainly don’t see anything wrong with it.
3 Likes
My reason for doing so is pretty simple actually. The gym I lift in has a really shitty rack (too short) so I can’t press out of it. That and I prefer to bench in my weightlifting shoes which I also use for squatting. That being said, I do prefer to press in my weightlifting shoes too but I’m fine with doing it in my flats. Deadlifting in weightlifting shoes is a huge no no.
2 Likes
I’m somewhat familiar with the different opinions with respect to deadlifting in weightlifting shoes, but the peeps I’ve used as guidance, often have a different opinion.
Here’s an ambiguous article by Rippetoe on shoes.
He never references dead lifting, but when I went to pull camp, they recommended that if I had weightlifting shoes, I should bring them.
One of the coaches was a dude named Michel Wolfe, of Wolfe Strength in Manhattan. Here’s a video of him dead lifting 600x3 in weightlifting shoes.
Now I know many are not fans of SS, and always question if those dudes even lift, but I think that video puts it to rest.
If not, check out my coach, John Petrizzo deadlifting 535x2 in weightlifting shoes.
I’m not sure if these dudes qualify as experts, but I think it’s enough evidence to confirm there is not a consensus on whether or not we should or should not dead lift in weight lifting shoes.
I know @MarkKO dead lifts in Chucks. Frankly, I think it’s not that big of a deal. If I could, I’d dead lift naked - just saying.
Sorry about the imagery, lol.
2 Likes
It’s more of personal preferences I’d say. That being said, I’ve read Rip’s take on it and he recommends using 0.6 inch heel height weightlifting shoes. I’ve recently started using wodlifts inserts in my adipowers so my heel height is around an inch or slightly higher. Kinda lazy to take them out too, not to mention they’re still 0.75 inches without the inserts.
Oh and on top of that… It’s also a reminder of sorts so I don’t mix up my cleans with deadlifts, it’s quite a common issue for people who practice both weightlifting and powerlifting or in my case, a wannabe.
Weightlifting shoes = cleans
Flat shoes = deadlifts
Not to break your balls, but, what are you dead lifting?
I do cleans as warm ups for deads because, it’s basically the same movement. But, you’re also doing clean and jerk, right? Different animal methinks.
I get it Bro, totally understand that you’re a young buck, love your log, love your take no prisoners attitude, but I really think you’re going to get much better following the 5/3/1 program @MarkKO helped you with.
Rock on!
1 Like
Does it really matter unless you plan on competing in powerlifting though?
Not nearly enough. Then again, my lifts(my 1rm at least) has little to no noticeable increases since 2014. Hell, my squat/deadlift max hasn’t increased since 2015. My bench/press has dropped. Lifting progressive heavier weights (in the big 4) honestly isn’t even that high on my list of priorities. If it were, I would’ve stuck to 5/3/1 cause I know it works. I’ve been hopping through various disciplines/sports at the expense of my progression and I’m totally fine with that. Even right now, jumping on @MarkKO’s suggestions for my 5/3/1 cycle isn’t so much so that I become a better lifter but rather a way of keeping some degree of lifting in whilst trying to get better at Canoeing in the short term(this 6 months or so) and running in the longer term(get good and stay good for pretty much the rest of my life since I’ll likely be pursuing a career in the military.)
This is where I would disagree with you rather strongly. It’s not even close. It’s actually brought up in one of the podcasts on the super total by juggernaut training systems.
EDIT:
I don’t see how it’s different. The clean which I’m referring to is the same clean from the clean and jerk.
Well, I do plan to compete in both powerlifting and weightlifting (recreationally) in the foreseeable future. Aiming for that there super total. When I say foreseeable, I really do mean the next 10 years haha.
I would like to add on that I’ve always had this notion in my head that I’ll ‘experiment’ with a bunch of different disciplines while I can in my youth and by the time I reach full on adulthood (basically getting a full time job, having been done with schooling), I’ll run 5/3/1 and have a rather rigid program of sorts so I don’t have to think about what to do in the gym.
1 Like
Yeah, I get you, totally.
My sole experience with lifting is here and SS coaches/dogma. I get that Rip isn’t necessarily the guru, but a lot of his shit makes sense to me. @dt79, @Yogi1, and others have disabused me of the notion that SS is the law, but, the dudes Ive had coaching from can lift. And their deal is that the power clean is a dead lift to your thighs, then a jump. Now what happens after the jump, well, I’m too retarded to figure that out, but it’s basically dropping and catching the weight.
You might have a different idea of the clean, and your idea is probably as valid, or more valid, because you actually clean.
You be the judge, you keep kicking ass, and try to get an all over tan - you farmer’s tan makes you look less lean than you are, just saying.
2 Likes
Yup, I’ve seen that and I’ve actually read most if not all of the starting strength material.
As for
I’d say that’s fine and dandy if you’re cleaning for the sake of getting more explosive cause pretty much any form of ‘clean’ works, even this.
If you’re trying to lift as much weight as possible ‘aka’ weightlifting, technique and efficiency matters a shit ton more.
Maybe we can get @Destrength’s take on this since he’s the one who is actually doing weightlifting right now.
2 Likes
##7/4/1017
Woke up at 73.3kgs
##FOOD
8:20AM - banana
12:30PM - yong tau fu(mainly tofu) and bowl of rice
3:30PM - can of 7 up
4:30PM - curry puff and Milo
8:00PM - chicken rice and curry puff
9:45PM - yakult
2000-ish calories
##Training
Canoe
Paddled from 1:45PM to 3:15PM, waves were hella strong so stopped relatively early
Wait, I need to do this…
NOOOOO!!! THE CLEAN IS NOT A DEADLIFT!!!
RIPPETOE!!! LOOK WHAT YOU’VE DONE!!!
LOOK WHAT YOU’VE DONE!!!
That being said, @Benanything is right. You can “clean” whatever way you want if your objective is to train explosiveness. It may even be less productive to teach someone who is not into olympic lifting real clean technique if it does not benefit his sport.
3 Likes
Fair enough!
2 Likes
I always learn from you guys. Sometimes I forget what the goal is and get bogged down in “theory,” and I get a nice dose of common sense from this forum.
Wondering if @dt79 is calling me a dirty ape, I’ve been called worse.
2 Likes
Lol no definitely not!
But imagine how much a humanoid ape would be able to deadlift.
3 Likes
Cleans and deadlifts are completely different motor patterns with completely different goals. Deadlifts you want to get behind the bar as quickly as possible and get your chest up as quickly as possible with knees and hips locked. Cleans you want to stay over the bar as long as possible before you finish your pull. Clean goes Knees>hips>triple extension and pull under. There are also a lot of differences in your goals in the two lifts. Deadlifts you want the bar scraping you the whole time, cleans you literally only want the bar in contact with you during the second pull. Deadlifts you also want everything turning on, while a clean is like a golf swing, you want your back and abs to be tight while your legs are really loose and controlled.
In all honesty I wouldn’t recommend the full Olympic lifts to the average athlete. Go do hang power cleans and snatches, and power jerks from racks (preferably from behind the neck) if you want to do them though, they are a lot easier technically and have a lower risk of injuries (except maybe power cleans, I personally despise them). You need to actually be technically proficient to get benefits from the lifts, and to the average person unless they are a former Weightlifter it’s too much effort that could be better spent doing different plyometrics and sled drags/pushes.
4 Likes
##8/4/2017
Woke up at 72.3kgs, all time lightest in 2017. Probably cause I under ate yesterday
##FOOD
8:00AM - red bean potong
1:30PM - lunch with family at Chinese restaurant
7:30PM - beef soup and vegetables with bowl of rice
9:30PM - honey milk tea
2000-ish calories
##Training
at home, 11:10PM
Push Ups
x3x16, 60 second rest between sets
2 Likes
Just started browsing logs and catching up on this… I saw above that @Benanything and @The_Myth agreed that the first part of the clean is the same as a deadlift.
I have to agree; however, I think everyone needs to realize that we all might deadlift a bit differently. If you use squat stance, sumo, or semi-sumo then the clean and deadlift are not too similar. If you use conventional then I think you are basically doing the first pull of a clean. If you don’t believe me then look at the videos I’ve posted in the forums. I posted some deadlift reps in the 405 Deadlift Challenge and I’ve posted a video of me cleaning 295lbs in CT’s forum. My form looks pretty much identical on my first pull and my deadlift.
I’m 6’5" (ish) and my best deadlift is 450, front squat is 275, and power clean is 315. None of that makes sense to me other than to confirm that I’m decent at developing power and performing power cleans. I refer to power cleans as the version where you catch the bar higher and your legs are in a 1/4 to 1/2 squat position instead of the full front squat position like the Olympians.
I’ve decided to post my videos in my log just so I have them bookmarked a little better. Feel free to check that for the videos…easier to find that way.
EDIT: If you want to work on power movements and don’t have the skill to do a clean or jerk then do pulls. Start from the hang or the floor, do the appropriate pull(s), get to triple extension, jump and shrug the weigh. No high pull necessary. You can still develop some great power this way and as a bonus you can use more weight than you’d be able to clean. I add 50 lbs to my working sets and do pulls after I power clean.
Thats why you are so slow off the floor.
3 Likes