T-Nation Christians

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

Just goes to show how imperfect we are as humans. Don’t know the circumstances, but to just kick you out… makes you wonder. On a related side note, the pastor at my church got the boot from the first church he interned in (as a youth pastor). All because he found out the pastor was sleeping with three women in the congregation and he confronted them about it.

[quote]pimpinthebox wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I am an extremely anti-religous born again christian. There are several reasons for my disdain of what is passed off as religion these days.

But first - I want to explain my faith. I am forgiven. I know I am becasue the Bible says so. My life was redeemed with the highest price I can imagine - the death and resurrection of God’s only son.

I believe that God created each one of us for a specific and unique reason. And that is to offer up worship to him of our own free will.

He has angels and heavenly hosts, and whatever else walking around up there in his presence and they worship him 24/7 (if there is such a thing in God’s presence). But they do it becasue they have no choice. That is their job, so to speak.

So what’s so unique about worship if all of heaven is doing it all the time? Free will. He created each one of us uniquely. The Bible says we are fearfully and wonderfully made. I say that God created each of us with a unique and special gift, that when offered back to God in a spirit of worship, fulfills the reason God made us in the first place.

Th blood of Jesus makes it so that we can enter into a relationship with our creator in which we have the express right to enter into his presence anytime we want.

The rules are - there are no rules. That’s what Paul said. We are free from the law. We are brothers of the very man that died so that we could enter the kingdom.

But organized religion has taken what was once a beautigul and honest thing, and corrupted it. Now the emphasis is on “being good”, “obeying the rules”, “praying the right prayer”.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but when you use that as a barometer for how ‘holy’ you are, you are robbing God of the very thing he created you for - honest and free worship.

But let’s take a little look back. Who was the first person to enter the streets of heaven under the blood of Christ? A religous leader? The one that had perfect attendance in church for ten years? The one the spoke in toungues the loudest? Nope - it was a crminal, senttenced to death hanging on a cross right next to Jesus. He knew he deserved death for his life choices, but Jesus saw the man’s heart and told the man the he would be in paradise that day with Jesus. Heck - he was never baptized, and he never darkened the door of a church.

Pual said of leagalism that if being circumcized made you acceptable to God, why stop there? Why not cut off you entire penis so you could be REALLY accepted?

Isaiah says that “our righteousness is like filthy rags”. What we try and do on our own is like a pile of filthy rags. Guess what kind of rags he is referring to? I had a guy tell me this, so I have no real proof, but those rags that Isaiah refers to wer used feminine napkins as it were. They couldn’t run to the the 7-11 and pick up sopme tampons. Our best attempts at being anything other than what God created us to be is like bloody, stinky, filthy, piles of used womens’ protection.

That’s why I hate organized religion. Folks that have cut their penis’ all the way off and decided to waller on a pile of used Kotex meeting together to show off just how clean and holy they are.

God did not create us for that. And I’d be willing to bet cash money that he didn’t kill his kid for that either.

But I could be wrong.

Romans 13:7
Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Also, we are to meet and fellowship, and prepare ourselves for the world. That means going to church.
I went to many churches before I found one that fit me. I wanted one that taught the Bible, not what they want, aka give us your money. I need a good look in the mirror to help me out during the week.

I had a falling out with a church I was a member of a few years ago. They voted me out because I was going through a divorce, and said I was turning my back on my family. They wouldn’t listen to my side, knowing that she had cheated and done drugs…they just said that the Bible said a man should take care of his family, and I wasn’t doing that with a baby on the way. So, in my time of need, the place I needed to turn was kicking me in the balls. So I fell away for a while, I was very discouraged.

I finally got myself back in gear and found the church that I felt comfortable in, and taught what I believe to be the truth. I love to go to church, and I love to get put in check. It keeps me on my toes when I’m out in the world. And we definately need something to help us. That is The Lord, and His word.

I hope you find somewhere to go and fellowship with others, it will help build your strength and relationship with God.

God Bless

Nooge

[/quote]

102

Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

103

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

[/quote]

This thread was started to discuss our faith, not crawling into a hole and bashing athiests. There is a time and a place. I prefer praying for them, and allowing the holy spirit to the work that the holy spirit does. Does that mean I shouldn’t go in there? Nope. But if I’m not led in there, it’s the wrong place to be.

If you felt led by the spirit to go into that thread - knock yourself out.

104

[quote]pimpinthebox wrote:
Romans 13:7
Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Also, we are to meet and fellowship, and prepare ourselves for the world. That means going to church.
I went to many churches before I found one that fit me. I wanted one that taught the Bible, not what they want, aka give us your money. I need a good look in the mirror to help me out during the week.

I had a falling out with a church I was a member of a few years ago. They voted me out because I was going through a divorce, and said I was turning my back on my family. They wouldn’t listen to my side, knowing that she had cheated and done drugs…they just said that the Bible said a man should take care of his family, and I wasn’t doing that with a baby on the way. So, in my time of need, the place I needed to turn was kicking me in the balls. So I fell away for a while, I was very discouraged.

I finally got myself back in gear and found the church that I felt comfortable in, and taught what I believe to be the truth. I love to go to church, and I love to get put in check. It keeps me on my toes when I’m out in the world. And we definately need something to help us. That is The Lord, and His word.

I hope you find somewhere to go and fellowship with others, it will help build your strength and relationship with God.

God Bless
[/quote]

What happens in most churches is not fellowship. It is God’s own personal ipecac. Do I fellowship with believers? Absolutely. Will I go into a man made monument to himself? I doubt it. Fellowship is not relegated to a certain time, or a certain place. Worship should hardly be pigeon-holed into a Sunday morning.

Just because I won’t go into a building that a certain denomination tells me to in order to be in their good graces does not mean I am deficient in my daily walk with God. Don’t get me wrong - I am in no way saying I have reached any level of enlightenment. I just try to stay away from places that smother worship, and that includes most churches I have been to.

105

[quote]halflife wrote:
I believe Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead. Am I a Christian? I don’t like the label, I read the bible and live accordingly. I don’t live a way cause Billy Graham says so. I live how God tells me to through his Word, prayer, Holy Ghost etc. I think my religiouse beliefs are unique from anyone else’s in the world just like my relationship with Jesus is.
-halflife
[/quote]

You’d be suprised how many people actually feel and worship the same way.

106

[quote]JPBear wrote:
C.S. Lewis is great. I especially loved “Surprised by Joy”. I also recommend Oswald Chambers “My Utmost for His Highest” if you are looking for a daily devotional. [/quote]

“The Screwtape Letters” and “Screwtape Proposes a Toast” by CS Lewis are also very good, extremely witty and funny, but also very thought provoking, I highly recommend them.

Ben

PS Great thread idea JPBear! It is very encouraging to see so many fellow believers on this site.

107

When I was born again, I was given a bible and a copy of “the Screwtape Letters”.

At first I opened “The Screwtape Letters” and started to read. I couldn’t understant how this horrible idea of demons and evil was funny…and I couldn’t figure out WHY IN THE WORLD they would give it to me.

NOW that I’m more “ready” to read it, it is indeed VERY funny and extremely thought-provoking. It makes me look at myself when reading it and say “DOH!”

G.B.U.

108

I’d like to throw out a thought for all of us to consider. Or, you might consider it a chalange.

As a born again believer in Christ, I try to represent Him in a decent and respectful manner. Am I perfect…of course not. I can be a bit hasty and even a touch bold. But one thing I try to do is keep my speech free from perverse and vulgar communication.

I’ve seen some people on this post who profess Christ, but on other posts fling the profanity around like a drunken sailor. So, here’s the chalange for you (and for me). Let’s keep our language decent in every post and be that beacon of light to a dying world.

109

[quote]deanec wrote:
dukefan4ever wrote:
Interesting that the T-Nation Atheists thread got 4 stars and we only got 3.
:slight_smile:

Shouldn’t be all that surprising…

It is interesting who Jesus was taking to in John chapter 3. In verse 1 he is called “a ruler of the Jews”, most likely a member of the Sanhedrin, or religious rulers. This was a man well schooled in the O.T. Law.

He probably knew the scriptures and kept the law better than 99 44/100% of the Jewish people. In verse 10 Jesus calls him a “master of Israel”. This guy was as good as a human gets, and yet it was to him that Jesus says “Ye must be born again”.

Doesn’t matter who we are or what we do, we must repent of our sins and turn to Christ. That is the only way to be “born again”.[/quote]

Excellent post! You got right to the point. No matter what your position or “religiousity,” you MUST be born-again to see the Kingdom of God."

110

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

[/quote]

Stop agitating.

111

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

This thread was started to discuss our faith, not crawling into a hole and bashing athiests. There is a time and a place. I prefer praying for them, and allowing the holy spirit to the work that the holy spirit does. Does that mean I shouldn’t go in there? Nope. But if I’m not led in there, it’s the wrong place to be.

If you felt led by the spirit to go into that thread - knock yourself out.
[/quote]

Hi

I will only interject the once, but please dont pray for me. Pray for somone who might appreciate it, pray for starving children in africa, pray for those dont understand anything else but prayer. I appreciate the sentiment, but dont.

But dont pray for me.

112

[quote]miniross wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

This thread was started to discuss our faith, not crawling into a hole and bashing athiests. There is a time and a place. I prefer praying for them, and allowing the holy spirit to the work that the holy spirit does. Does that mean I shouldn’t go in there? Nope. But if I’m not led in there, it’s the wrong place to be.

If you felt led by the spirit to go into that thread - knock yourself out.

Hi

I will only interject the once, but please dont pray for me. Pray for somone who might appreciate it, pray for starving children in africa, pray for those dont understand anything else but prayer. I appreciate the sentiment, but dont.

But dont pray for me. [/quote]

Too late.

113

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
I’ve seen some people on this post who profess Christ, but on other posts fling the profanity around like a drunken sailor. So, here’s the chalange for you (and for me). Let’s keep our language decent in every post and be that beacon of light to a dying world.[/quote]

You have a very valid point. And I apologize to any of you who have been offended by my choice of verbage. I will not apologize for my passion, but I do apologize for my choice of words.

114

[quote]rainjack wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
I’ve seen some people on this post who profess Christ, but on other posts fling the profanity around like a drunken sailor. So, here’s the chalange for you (and for me). Let’s keep our language decent in every post and be that beacon of light to a dying world.

You have a very valid point. And I apologize to any of you who have been offended by my choice of verbage. I will not apologize for my passion, but I do apologize for my choice of words.
[/quote]

Your passion is what will make you a great witness - you never have to be sorry for that. If you lacked passion, then it is time for sorrow.

Got to run - Time to take care of the kids :wink:

115

[quote]rainjack wrote:
pimpinthebox wrote:
Romans 13:7
Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Also, we are to meet and fellowship, and prepare ourselves for the world. That means going to church.
I went to many churches before I found one that fit me. I wanted one that taught the Bible, not what they want, aka give us your money. I need a good look in the mirror to help me out during the week.

I had a falling out with a church I was a member of a few years ago. They voted me out because I was going through a divorce, and said I was turning my back on my family. They wouldn’t listen to my side, knowing that she had cheated and done drugs…they just said that the Bible said a man should take care of his family, and I wasn’t doing that with a baby on the way. So, in my time of need, the place I needed to turn was kicking me in the balls. So I fell away for a while, I was very discouraged.

I finally got myself back in gear and found the church that I felt comfortable in, and taught what I believe to be the truth. I love to go to church, and I love to get put in check. It keeps me on my toes when I’m out in the world. And we definately need something to help us. That is The Lord, and His word.

I hope you find somewhere to go and fellowship with others, it will help build your strength and relationship with God.

God Bless

What happens in most churches is not fellowship. It is God’s own personal ipecac. Do I fellowship with believers? Absolutely. Will I go into a man made monument to himself? I doubt it. Fellowship is not relegated to a certain time, or a certain place. Worship should hardly be pigeon-holed into a Sunday morning.

Just because I won’t go into a building that a certain denomination tells me to in order to be in their good graces does not mean I am deficient in my daily walk with God. Don’t get me wrong - I am in no way saying I have reached any level of enlightenment. I just try to stay away from places that smother worship, and that includes most churches I have been to.

[/quote]

I hear you cluckin’, big chicken. I also witnessed a number of things happen in church’s I attended that if any non-believers saw would surely turn the other way. I still attend, but take what I can use, what the Holy Spirit puts on my heart. Otherwise, I too cringe when the pastor puts ultimatums on “if you’re a real Christian you’ll come forward and pray” and things like that.

There is a way to divorce according to the Bible. Again, I feel bad because I’m unprepared and don’t know exactly the passages. There are steps and reasons why you can get divorced. I don’t know if that helps, but I hope it does. And I agree with you, you’re supposed to shoulder your brother’s pain, comfort - not judge and condem.

116

[quote]miniross wrote:

Hi

I will only interject the once, but please dont pray for me. Pray for somone who might appreciate it, pray for starving children in africa, pray for those dont understand anything else but prayer. I appreciate the sentiment, but dont.

But dont pray for me. [/quote]

You are now going to join Pookie at the top of my prayer list!

117

Regarding attending formalized church services: It is my conviction that we are to make a habit of regularly gathering with a local assembly of believers. This is practically made easier in what is traditionally called “church”.

This word is translated from the Greek word “ekklesia” which means “called out ones” or “assembly”. One could say that there is the universal church of all believers, the “called out ones”, and the local church or the “assembly”.

I base my argument for attending a regular gathering on this passage, among others: Heb 10:24-25 “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”

The writer of Hebrews urges that we do not “forsake” assembling for the following reasons; We are to challenge each other to love and doing good, and to encourage each other as we see the world crumbling around us. These are important considerations as we seek to be salt and light.

As far as being “comfortable” in church. If you are sitting under abusive, hypocritical or doctrinally unsound leadership, I would get out. If you are being challenged to holiness, prompted to examine questionable habits, and “growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ”, you are very likely in a place of blessing. Sometimes I am very uncomfortable with what I am taught, but usually the problem is me. Be a Berean, examine the scriptures, and see if what you are being taught is true. When you are saved, the Holy Spirit guides discerment and leads to truth. It is also clear that God has set up church leadership (“Pastor/Teacher”)to teach and expound biblical truth and help guide us as we grow.

This is not intended to cut anyone down, only explain my perspective.

118

[quote]deanec wrote:
Regarding attending formalized church services: It is my conviction that we are to make a habit of regularly gathering with a local assembly of believers. This is practically made easier in what is traditionally called “church”.

This word is translated from the Greek word “ekklesia” which means “called out ones” or “assembly”. One could say that there is the universal church of all believers, the “called out ones”, and the local church or the “assembly”.

I base my argument for attending a regular gathering on this passage, among others: Heb 10:24-25 “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”

The writer of Hebrews urges that we do not “forsake” assembling for the following reasons; We are to challenge each other to love and doing good, and to encourage each other as we see the world crumbling around us. These are important considerations as we seek to be salt and light.

As far as being “comfortable” in church. If you are sitting under abusive, hypocritical or doctrinally unsound leadership, I would get out. If you are being challenged to holiness, prompted to examine questionable habits, and “growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ”, you are very likely in a place of blessing. Sometimes I am very uncomfortable with what I am taught, but usually the problem is me. Be a Berean, examine the scriptures, and see if what you are being taught is true. When you are saved, the Holy Spirit guides discerment and leads to truth. It is also clear that God has set up church leadership (“Pastor/Teacher”)to teach and expound biblical truth and help guide us as we grow.

This is not intended to cut anyone down, only explain my perspective.[/quote]

AMEN

119

[quote]JPBear wrote:
You are now going to join Pookie at the top of my prayer list!
[/quote]

Ok, but I do get to keep the top spot, right? I mean, I’m not just an atheist, I’m a French (gasp!) speaking atheist from Quebec (yuk!).

Come to think of it, those kinds of problems probably require an entire dedicated prayer session.

Twice daily, thanks.

120

[quote]rainjack wrote:
miniross wrote:
But dont pray for me.

Too late. [/quote]

Praying God to smite us doesn’t really count as “praying for us” you know.