T-Nation Christians

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
JPBear wrote:
jsbrook,

Yes, God wants us to be happy and fulfilled. And we will be if we serve him. We will not find happiness in the things the unsaved strive for. Here is a good verse:

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life - is not of the Father but is of the world.

And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."

1 John 2:15-17

Yes. I would agree. But I don’t believe serving God is about self-flagellation or strict denial. But by the same token, I don’t think anyone could honestly say that using alcohol or other drugs or really anything as a crutch could say it’s honestly making them happy. Beyond momentary gratification. That is not constructive or productive and cannot be what God wants for people. So, I think we are in somewhat of agreement.
[/quote]

I probably shouldn’t add my $.02, but I’m gonna anyway.
I think I agree with both of you. But I like to keep it more basic. I know that Jesus came so that we can have life and have it to the full. I also know that God created us (yes–created–gasp!) for a relationship with Him. I also know that Jesus said that those who love Him will keep his commands. So we’re all right!! Blessings to you both. The answer is focussing on Jesus.
And JPBear–great initiative on your part for starting this thread. Good stuff.

82

[quote]rainjack wrote:
But first - I want to explain my faith. I am forgiven. I know I am becasue the Bible says so. My life was redeemed with the highest price I can imagine - the death and resurrection of God’s only son.

I believe that God created each one of us for a specific and unique reason. And that is to offer up worship to him of our own free will.

He has angels and heavenly hosts, and whatever else walking around up there in his presence and they worship him 24/7 (if there is such a thing in God’s presence). But they do it becasue they have no choice. That is their job, so to speak.

[/quote]

Interesting thoughts. And funny avatar. Shenanigans.
I wonder if the heavenly hosts really do it 'cause they have to. Satan was once a beautiful angel in heaven. He became prideful and was cast to Earth with a third of the heavenly hosts. (Ok, that’s at least really, really close.) So my thought is that he had a choice to take his focus off God. I actually think there’s a lot more to this, but I don’t want to put my opinion in on this. I think the Angels have free will.
BUT–this doesn’t take away from anything you said, kinda just something else to think about. I struggled with legalism hard for about a year and I get where you’re coming from.
Blessings…

83

Rainjack,

I agree with most of what you are saying but we have to remember that we are not to use our freedom from the law as a cloak for vice. A relationship with God gives us a desire to be pure and holy, even though we are free from the law and forgiven.

Religion and legalism are not appealing to me either. In many cases people are very concerned about outward appearances but not about the sins of the heart. God is concerned about both.

84

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Rainjack,

I agree with most of what you are saying but we have to remember that we are not to use our freedom from the law as a cloak for vice. A relationship with God gives us a desire to be pure and holy, even though we are free from the law and forgiven.

Religion and legalism are not appealing to me either. In many cases people are very concerned about outward appearances but not about the sins of the heart. God is concerned about both.[/quote]

I agree. Anything that we think, or say, or do that comes between us and our relationship is wrong. Plain and simple. That’s kinda what Paul was getting at. The church always has been way too caught up in having a checklist of do’s and don’ts. I am a Southern Baptist. It don’t get much more legalistic than that. Tell me what joy can be derived from tring to live your life inside a set of rules that cannot be lived inside of?

Paul speaks of freedom from the law, that the law died on the cross right along with Jesus. Jesus, having never sinned, shattered the legalistic Jewish law everytime he spoke out. In fact who hated him the most? The prostitute? The thief? The crooked tax collector? Nope - it was those religous zealots who were exposed by the love and forgiveness of Christ’s message.

In no way do I propose that salvation is a life insurance policy. Anyone who has experienced a conversion knows that it is far from that. But - from Jesus’ own mouth when asked what the greatest commandments were: “To love the Lord thy God with all your heart, and to love they neighbor as thyself”.

Rules are a convention that man invents because we have to have a barometer of how we are doing. We seem to have trouble just being. Revelation speaks about the Church at Laeodecia. Why does god hate this church so? Why do the actions of this church make God so sick to his stomach that he tells them that he is going to puke them out of his mouth? Apathetic legalism. Playing a game. Focusing on rules rather than relationship. God tells them - “be hot, be cold, be SOMEHTING because you are making me sick”.

There is a book out there that I think everyone should read. The name of the book is Search For Significance by Robert S. McGee.

85

[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
Fair answer, but any version of the living Bible is considered a “contextual” translation. Contextual translations are paraphrased and the translator is inserting their own ideas or interpretations. Contextual translations are considered the least accurate. You’d be better off sticking with the King James.[/quote]

Is that truly the case, though? I will admit the King James version is certainly the most poetic and beautiful. However, any translation from the original Greek or Hebrew is contextual to some extent anyway. There are typically several different ways of interpreting any given passage and it comes down to a translator’s call as to what the “decided” translation should be. Most of the newer versions of the Bible (living or not) will also include footnotes to give the reader an alternate translation as well.

86

AWESOME THREAD! I’ve never actually sat and read every single post in one of these. Very inspiring, good commentary, touching testimonies.

I accepted the Lord when I was 9, raised in a Christian home. I, like many of you, lived a long portion of my life believing the parts of the Bible that were convenient, the parts that didn’t require me to lay down my life for the truth. Just the past couple of years the Holy Spirit has shown me that living according to the Word was not that hard. I always thought it unattainable. I’m by no means perfect, there’s always something I can work on. I’ll be sober for 3 years in August. I thank the Lord every day that he took every urge, any tiny little inkling to ever take a drink again! It is truly amazing, supernatural the power of the Lord. No 12 step program, no tapes, no gums, just lay it down before the Lord and he’ll do the rest of the work.

For a daily walk guideline, I think Galatians 5 lays it out pretty clear. “Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Against these there is no law.” The 9 fruits of the Spirit.

Chalk up, go big!
(Oh yeah, gotta throw my college some props, GO SOONERS!)

87

[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
I don’t understand why those of the “born again” persuasion use the King James Bible? I realize that is is one of the better “literal” translations, however, the American standard is a better literal translation and it’s understandable.

Could someone please provide a logical explaination for this?[/quote]

Here is the same passage from the American standard translation.

Christopher

John 3 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright ? 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

John 3
The New Birth
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named (A)Nicodemus, a (B)ruler of the Jews;
2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “(C)Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these (D)signs that You do unless (E)God is with him.”

3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one (F)is born again he cannot see (G)the kingdom of God.”

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”

5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of (H)water and the Spirit he cannot enter into (I)the kingdom of God.

6"(J)That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7"Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

8"(K)The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

9Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you (L)the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

11"Truly, truly, I say to you, (M)we speak of what we know and (N)testify of what we have seen, and (O)you do not accept our testimony.

12"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13"(P)No one has ascended into heaven, but (Q)He who descended from heaven: (R)the Son of Man.

14"As (S)Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must (T)the Son of Man (U)be lifted up;

15so that whoever [a]believes will (V)in Him have eternal life.

16"For God so (W)loved the world, that He (X)gave His (Y)only begotten Son, that whoever (Z)believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17"For God (AA)did not send the Son into the world (AB)to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

18"(AC)He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of (AD)the only begotten Son of God.

19"This is the judgment, that (AE)the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for (AF)their deeds were evil.

20"(AG)For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

21"But he who (AH)practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

John’s Last Testimony
22After these things Jesus and His (AI)disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and (AJ)baptizing.
23John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people were coming and were being baptized–

24for (AK)John had not yet been thrown into prison.

25Therefore there arose a discussion on the part of John’s disciples with a Jew about (AL)purification.

26And they came to John and said to him, “(AM)Rabbi, He who was with you (AN)beyond the Jordan, to whom you (AO)have testified, behold, He is baptizing and all are coming to Him.”

27John answered and said, "(AP)A man can receive nothing unless it (AQ)has been given him from heaven.

28"You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘(AR)I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent ahead of Him.’

29"He who has the bride is (AS)the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice So this (AT)joy of mine has been made full.

30"He must increase, but I must decrease.

31"(AU)He who comes from above is above all, (AV)he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth (AW)He who comes from heaven is above all.

32"What He has seen and heard, of that He (AX)testifies; and (AY)no one receives His testimony.

33"He who has received His testimony (AZ)has set his seal to this, that God is true.

34"For He whom God has (BA)sent speaks the words of God; (BB)for He gives the Spirit without measure.

35"(BC)The Father loves the Son and (BD)has given all things into His hand.

36"He who (BE)believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who (BF)does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

88

[quote]rainjack wrote:
There is a book out there that I think everyone should read. The name of the book is Search For Significance by Robert S. McGee. [/quote]

I would like to echo the recommendation for this book. It is awesome.

Christopher

89

…for ‘kick your butt’ Christian workout music, “Living Sacrifice”. Not a lot of singing, I don’t like ballad, hold the note kind of music when I’m working, just a personal preference. I have some Demon Hunter but have to skip quite a few songs.

90

Awesome to see that there are many Christians on this website! Check out www.gutschurch.com for a “T-Man” style of non -denominational church. Praise be to God!

91

[quote]Kuz wrote:
However, any translation from the original Greek or Hebrew is contextual to some extent anyway. There are typically several different ways of interpreting any given passage and it comes down to a translator’s call as to what the “decided” translation should be. Most of the newer versions of the Bible (living or not) will also include footnotes to give the reader an alternate translation as well.[/quote]

Kinda-sorta. If you’re really studying, one of the literal translations may be best, but if you just want to read for impact another translation may be easier.
BUT, it’s important to realize that translations really don’t stray too far from the original meaning. In Genesis the Bible says that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Most church-goers would be familiar with this. But because people think the translations aren’t necessarily that accurate they debate the meaning of “day”.

For instance: what’s a day to God? It could just mean “a certain period of time”. So people start to think God created the world over six “figurative” days. This is easy for us and can even allow for evolution. Unfortunately it takes away some of the awesomeness of God. BUT–if you study the original text, “day” was the Hebrew word for a normal, 24-hour day. So God created the Earth and everything on it in 6, 24-hour days.
In other words, don’t allow for much leeway when reading the Bible. It means what it says.
Blessings…

92

I had heard that the initial meaning for ‘day’ was actually a certain passage or period of time, not necessarily the 24 hour days we think of today. Will try to look into that after my two exams. :slight_smile:

[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
Kuz wrote:
However, any translation from the original Greek or Hebrew is contextual to some extent anyway. There are typically several different ways of interpreting any given passage and it comes down to a translator’s call as to what the “decided” translation should be. Most of the newer versions of the Bible (living or not) will also include footnotes to give the reader an alternate translation as well.

Kinda-sorta. If you’re really studying, one of the literal translations may be best, but if you just want to read for impact another translation may be easier.
BUT, it’s important to realize that translations really don’t stray too far from the original meaning. In Genesis the Bible says that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Most church-goers would be familiar with this. But because people think the translations aren’t necessarily that accurate they debate the meaning of “day”.

For instance: what’s a day to God? It could just mean “a certain period of time”. So people start to think God created the world over six “figurative” days. This is easy for us and can even allow for evolution. Unfortunately it takes away some of the awesomeness of God. BUT–if you study the original text, “day” was the Hebrew word for a normal, 24-hour day. So God created the Earth and everything on it in 6, 24-hour days.
In other words, don’t allow for much leeway when reading the Bible. It means what it says.
Blessings…

[/quote]

93

[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
Kuz wrote:
However, any translation from the original Greek or Hebrew is contextual to some extent anyway. There are typically several different ways of interpreting any given passage and it comes down to a translator’s call as to what the “decided” translation should be. Most of the newer versions of the Bible (living or not) will also include footnotes to give the reader an alternate translation as well.

Kinda-sorta. If you’re really studying, one of the literal translations may be best, but if you just want to read for impact another translation may be easier.
BUT, it’s important to realize that translations really don’t stray too far from the original meaning. In Genesis the Bible says that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Most church-goers would be familiar with this. But because people think the translations aren’t necessarily that accurate they debate the meaning of “day”.

For instance: what’s a day to God? It could just mean “a certain period of time”. So people start to think God created the world over six “figurative” days. This is easy for us and can even allow for evolution. Unfortunately it takes away some of the awesomeness of God. BUT–if you study the original text, “day” was the Hebrew word for a normal, 24-hour day. So God created the Earth and everything on it in 6, 24-hour days.
In other words, don’t allow for much leeway when reading the Bible. It means what it says.
Blessings…

[/quote]

Well, I guess this is a point we will generally differ one (which is obviously OK). But I’m Catholic anyway and we have a more interpretive view of the Bible to begin with. Just another of the little differences that make life interesting.

Kevin

94

First time poster here, what better thread to post in than this one! I’m a born again, holy spirit filled, child of God and I’m able to do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me! Currently my favorite Book to read is Romans, especially ALL of Romans 8!! My favorite christian group is Selah, and my favorite author is CS Lewis!! If you haven’t read “Surprised by Joy” yet, please do! It’s a autobiography of his life growing up and how he came from being a “diehard” atheist to a born again christian! I bet some people on this site could learn a little from it too! ha! No seriously though, it reminded me alot on how my own walk began and how I came to the Lord “kicking and screaming”. Now I still have my daily struggles like everyone else, but the “searching” is over. You know what I mean? For a long time I tried to find “it” in other things, that elusive “joy and peace” that always seemed just out of my grasp. Now I have it, just like Jesus said I would when he said he came to give me life “more abundantly”. I praise him everyday and thank God that He called me!

God is so high, I can’t get over him.
He is so low I can’t get under him.
He is so wide, I can’t get around him!

95

[quote]Odogg wrote:
First time poster here, what better thread to post in than this one! I’m a born again, holy spirit filled, child of God and I’m able to do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me! Currently my favorite Book to read is Romans, especially ALL of Romans 8!! My favorite christian group is Selah, and my favorite author is CS Lewis!! If you haven’t read “Surprised by Joy” yet, please do! It’s a autobiography of his life growing up and how he came from being a “diehard” atheist to a born again christian! I bet some people on this site could learn a little from it too! ha! No seriously though, it reminded me alot on how my own walk began and how I came to the Lord “kicking and screaming”. Now I still have my daily struggles like everyone else, but the “searching” is over. You know what I mean? For a long time I tried to find “it” in other things, that elusive “joy and peace” that always seemed just out of my grasp. Now I have it, just like Jesus said I would when he said he came to give me life “more abundantly”. I praise him everyday and thank God that He called me!

God is so high, I can’t get over him.
He is so low I can’t get under him.
He is so wide, I can’t get around him!

[/quote]

To keep things on the C.S. Lewis notion, I was curious if anyone else on here had read “The Great Divorce”. An excellent book (and no, it 's not about martial divorce as I used to think BEFORE I read it). If anyone has, curious about your thoughts on it.

96

[quote]JPBear wrote:
jsbrook,

Yes, God wants us to be happy and fulfilled. And we will be if we serve him. We will not find happiness in the things the unsaved strive for. Here is a good verse:

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life - is not of the Father but is of the world.

And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."

1 John 2:15-17
[/quote]

amen

97

[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
Fair answer, but any version of the living Bible is considered a “contextual” translation. Contextual translations are paraphrased and the translator is inserting their own ideas or interpretations. Contextual translations are considered the least accurate. You’d be better off sticking with the King James.[/quote]

I grew up with the King James. And for the last 10 years have used the King James Study Bible. I now read from the New King James, but if I have some questions, I refer back to my study Bible.

98

[quote]Kuz wrote:
Odogg wrote:
First time poster here, what better thread to post in than this one! I’m a born again, holy spirit filled, child of God and I’m able to do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me! Currently my favorite Book to read is Romans, especially ALL of Romans 8!! My favorite christian group is Selah, and my favorite author is CS Lewis!! If you haven’t read “Surprised by Joy” yet, please do! It’s a autobiography of his life growing up and how he came from being a “diehard” atheist to a born again christian! I bet some people on this site could learn a little from it too! ha! No seriously though, it reminded me alot on how my own walk began and how I came to the Lord “kicking and screaming”. Now I still have my daily struggles like everyone else, but the “searching” is over. You know what I mean? For a long time I tried to find “it” in other things, that elusive “joy and peace” that always seemed just out of my grasp. Now I have it, just like Jesus said I would when he said he came to give me life “more abundantly”. I praise him everyday and thank God that He called me!

God is so high, I can’t get over him.
He is so low I can’t get under him.
He is so wide, I can’t get around him!

To keep things on the C.S. Lewis notion, I was curious if anyone else on here had read “The Great Divorce”. An excellent book (and no, it 's not about martial divorce as I used to think BEFORE I read it). If anyone has, curious about your thoughts on it.[/quote]

Kuz,
I am Christian / Catholic, and I have read just about all of C.S. Lewis?s books. ?The Great Divorce? was an eye-opening read, and I recommend it to everyone. All fellow Christians should be practicing ?lecto divina? (spiritual reading) in my opinion, and I find that most of the books written long ago are the best. C.S. Lewis himself stated this. The reading of these books is in addition to the bible of course. If anyone would like a list, just let me know. May God be with all, and I pray for those on the atheist thread.

99

C.S. Lewis is great. I especially loved “Surprised by Joy”. I also recommend Oswald Chambers “My Utmost for His Highest” if you are looking for a daily devotional.

100

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I am an extremely anti-religous born again christian. There are several reasons for my disdain of what is passed off as religion these days.

But first - I want to explain my faith. I am forgiven. I know I am becasue the Bible says so. My life was redeemed with the highest price I can imagine - the death and resurrection of God’s only son.

I believe that God created each one of us for a specific and unique reason. And that is to offer up worship to him of our own free will.

He has angels and heavenly hosts, and whatever else walking around up there in his presence and they worship him 24/7 (if there is such a thing in God’s presence). But they do it becasue they have no choice. That is their job, so to speak.

So what’s so unique about worship if all of heaven is doing it all the time? Free will. He created each one of us uniquely. The Bible says we are fearfully and wonderfully made. I say that God created each of us with a unique and special gift, that when offered back to God in a spirit of worship, fulfills the reason God made us in the first place.

Th blood of Jesus makes it so that we can enter into a relationship with our creator in which we have the express right to enter into his presence anytime we want.

The rules are - there are no rules. That’s what Paul said. We are free from the law. We are brothers of the very man that died so that we could enter the kingdom.

But organized religion has taken what was once a beautigul and honest thing, and corrupted it. Now the emphasis is on “being good”, “obeying the rules”, “praying the right prayer”.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but when you use that as a barometer for how ‘holy’ you are, you are robbing God of the very thing he created you for - honest and free worship.

But let’s take a little look back. Who was the first person to enter the streets of heaven under the blood of Christ? A religous leader? The one that had perfect attendance in church for ten years? The one the spoke in toungues the loudest? Nope - it was a crminal, senttenced to death hanging on a cross right next to Jesus. He knew he deserved death for his life choices, but Jesus saw the man’s heart and told the man the he would be in paradise that day with Jesus. Heck - he was never baptized, and he never darkened the door of a church.

Pual said of leagalism that if being circumcized made you acceptable to God, why stop there? Why not cut off you entire penis so you could be REALLY accepted?

Isaiah says that “our righteousness is like filthy rags”. What we try and do on our own is like a pile of filthy rags. Guess what kind of rags he is referring to? I had a guy tell me this, so I have no real proof, but those rags that Isaiah refers to wer used feminine napkins as it were. They couldn’t run to the the 7-11 and pick up sopme tampons. Our best attempts at being anything other than what God created us to be is like bloody, stinky, filthy, piles of used womens’ protection.

That’s why I hate organized religion. Folks that have cut their penis’ all the way off and decided to waller on a pile of used Kotex meeting together to show off just how clean and holy they are.

God did not create us for that. And I’d be willing to bet cash money that he didn’t kill his kid for that either.

But I could be wrong. [/quote]

Romans 13:7
Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Also, we are to meet and fellowship, and prepare ourselves for the world. That means going to church.
I went to many churches before I found one that fit me. I wanted one that taught the Bible, not what they want, aka give us your money. I need a good look in the mirror to help me out during the week.

I had a falling out with a church I was a member of a few years ago. They voted me out because I was going through a divorce, and said I was turning my back on my family. They wouldn’t listen to my side, knowing that she had cheated and done drugs…they just said that the Bible said a man should take care of his family, and I wasn’t doing that with a baby on the way. So, in my time of need, the place I needed to turn was kicking me in the balls. So I fell away for a while, I was very discouraged.

I finally got myself back in gear and found the church that I felt comfortable in, and taught what I believe to be the truth. I love to go to church, and I love to get put in check. It keeps me on my toes when I’m out in the world. And we definately need something to help us. That is The Lord, and His word.

I hope you find somewhere to go and fellowship with others, it will help build your strength and relationship with God.

God Bless

Nooge