Thanks for the information, LM and gregron.
The general guidelines will be helpful. I think I am basically at a one to one ratio on the stroke (recovery + drive). My training plan is very basic since I have been rowing for about two weeks…3 workouts per week (interval, tempo , long).
Thanks again.
Hope I’m not hijacking but this seems to be the only good Row thread going. Anyone have experience with the 3-stroke power test? I remember reading in a training manual ‘world class’ was 1000watts, and recently saw a video of the Canadian National team saying they all aim for 1100 watts in the heavyweights.
From what I gathered they put damper on 10, set display to the watts, took three strokes and looked for the total watts? Just wondering if any experienced rowers have info, on set up and execution. Should I ‘game’ the test, row something like an 18 stroke-rate and try to pull out of my shoes on each one or just pull a more normal rate for me?
Thanks
[quote]bubbarock wrote:
Thanks for the information, LM and gregron.
The general guidelines will be helpful. I think I am basically at a one to one ratio on the stroke (recovery + drive). My training plan is very basic since I have been rowing for about two weeks…3 workouts per week (interval, tempo , long).
Thanks again.[/quote]
Always strive for better ratio. Really even at race pace you don’t want to be 1:1, preferably closer to 2:1 (recovery:drive)
[quote]Rockland wrote:
Hope I’m not hijacking but this seems to be the only good Row thread going. Anyone have experience with the 3-stroke power test? I remember reading in a training manual ‘world class’ was 1000watts, and recently saw a video of the Canadian National team saying they all aim for 1100 watts in the heavyweights.
From what I gathered they put damper on 10, set display to the watts, took three strokes and looked for the total watts? Just wondering if any experienced rowers have info, on set up and execution. Should I ‘game’ the test, row something like an 18 stroke-rate and try to pull out of my shoes on each one or just pull a more normal rate for me?
Thanks[/quote]
There are a few max power tests you can do. I’ve run single, triple, and 30 second tests. There are plenty of other tests that can be run in conjunction with this to test various aspects such as VO2, AT, and various other things. Some need a lab to conduct such as the VO2 and AT, but some can be done well enough with us the monitor.
If you’re trying to do a max power test for 3 strokes. You want to get the wheel up to speed as quickly as possible.
First stroke, full slide - Get it going
Second stroke, half slide - speeding up more
Third stroke, full slide - might be upwards of a 40 here and cranking as hard as you can.
Or you can just stick with 3 full strokes ramping the power and rate up each one as much as you can. Most max-power tests are not capped for rate.
Try it either of those ways and see which works for you.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
As I said somewhere in there is that a shorter guy can usually achieve a higher maximum stroke rate, but it’s not going to be efficient. Most competitive rowers doing a 500 for shits and giggles are probably rating between 36-42 at their most efficient (only shortening up the last 75-100 meters or so, remember I said diminished returns). Last time I did a 500 for “fun” I rated a 38 with good ratio and efficiency, bringing the rate up in the last 100 and topping out at 45 (my own tested max rate at full slide is a 51 with a very low load). If I start sacrificing length I can get upwards of 60+ but as I said it just wouldn’t be as effective to do that as my ratio becomes inverse with the drive being longer then the recovery by a significant amount. In a boat I could probably rate close to a 70 but as said just would be stupid since someone rating down at half that would be blowing right by me.
One of the biggest psychological games to play with someone in a race (especially in head racing in the fall where boats are staggered and you’re playing a bit of leap frog out there and there’s much more tactical steering) is to be rating a few beats lower on the rate and just rowing through them, knowing you have the ability to bring the rate up but you being the faster crew are rowing through someone while they’re at a higher rate. In a 2k we used to sit on the lead boat often-times letting them run with a 4 seat lead or so and again being at a lower rate (but higher power levels per stroke) until about the 1100 meter mark and then start to move on them. Nothing more demoralizing not being able to run away from a boat when your at max efficient rating and they’re rating lower then you and just sitting waiting to pounce.
[/quote]
I can vouch for this, I HATE when boats do that. Mostly because it makes the race that much harder.
500’s are nice in the sense that you can really just “fly and die” without your time really suffering but anything longer and the psychology really comes into play. You see coxswains yelling pretty much the entire race, at least you do once every 4 years when rowing is on TV, calling out race strategy. How much strategy can there be in a straight race? Well, not much. But the point is to keep your mind occupied with something other than the pain. If you can make a boat start thinking about how they feel you can beat them, right then and there.
(being faster helps too)
I hit 1:28.6 today at the end of weights session. Not great, but my legs really fatigued towards the end.
warmed up on the row machine today… 2K in 7:54 (not that great but it was a warm up)
anyone else in here still rowing?
Coaching every day, training a few times a week on the water when I can and getting on the erg for some long steady state pieces a good bit. I’m contemplating going back out for the national team, if I can get health insurance and get an MRI on my hip flexor/quad and see if I require surgery or not then I may just have to get back into training full time again.
^^that would be awesome! Hopefully it all works out for ya and definitely Good luck!
The gym I frequent during the summer used to have C2’s. They were beat to shit but were C2’s none the less. They decided to replace them with water-rowers and they are absolute shit. No resistance, aren’t set up right and doing a warm-up it reads that I’m pulling a 1:34/500m and doesn’t read stroke rate properly. SO PISSED
[quote]A_Lemay wrote:
The gym I frequent during the summer used to have C2’s. They were beat to shit but were C2’s none the less. They decided to replace them with water-rowers and they are absolute shit. No resistance, aren’t set up right and doing a warm-up it reads that I’m pulling a 1:34/500m and doesn’t read stroke rate properly. SO PISSED[/quote]
I know what you mean about the water rowers. The lack of resistance makes it impossible to do low rate pieces properly and the monitor is terrible. When I was 16 I managed to do a 2k in 6.14 on it. Man was it a shock when I tried to repeat that on a C2.
Ahh man that sucks you guys. I checked out a gym (never actually worked out there) that had a few of those water towers and yet looked so bad ass!
[quote]gregron wrote:
Ahh man that sucks you guys. I checked out a gym (never actually worked out there) that had a few of those water towers and yet looked so bad ass![/quote]
The water rowers are better than quite a lot of the cheaper ones, but on the one I have used, it is the monitor that is way worse than C2. It makes it hard to know where you are at. As mentioned previously I hit 6.14 on water rower, when I went on C2 I probably rowed harder yet was way slower than 7 minutes. I think as general cardio use they are pretty decent, but for rowers they do not compare to C2. For example a lot of my training involves endurance pieces as recommended by LM on the rowers at low rates which cannot be achieved properly on water rowers due to their lack of resistance. Got to admit they look better and sound better than C2 though.
^^yeah that makes sense. I just do the row for recreational/cardio purposes. I’m never gonna get out there on the water and row I just like doing cardio things like rowing, complexes or a crossfit workout cause its a lot more fun that rowing or biking or whatever. Ya know?
Keep in mind that if using a water-rower, that no competitive organization will accept times on them. All times must be from a C2 machine. Rowing is a great community and holds up their own, C2 has been there for decades and has always been a “rowing” company while the companies that make water rowers are simply fitness companies trying to break into a market.
As a side note Greg, go learn to row and get on the water, I guarantee you’ll never find something better then a saturday morning row in a crisp 65 degrees with the sun just coming up over the horizon. Hell if you’re ever out East Coast I’ll take ya out and let you sit in with our middle school development program (kiddies who are just starting at rowing, just like you!). We can say you just hit puberty early…
Mini competition in the gym today and I managed to pull a 1:26.5 for 500m. Quite happy with this, won’t be too long before I attempt a dreaded 2k test.
Been rowing 2k as my warm up pre workout this whole week… It always feels so easy for the first 1K and then starts to suck lol… Keeping a 1:56 average pace… I know it’s pretty slow but it’s my warm up
Yeah you don’t want to do a proper all out 2k for warm up as you would not be able to do anything after it. A 2k test really does push you to the limit. Afterwards I can hardly walk, feel sick and can taste lactic acid. If you ever decide to do one make sure it is the only thing you plan to do other than warm up for it obviously.
^^Yeah sounds pretty terrible. Did another 2K today before my chest workout…7:54 was my total time, resistance set to 10 (I know its not recommended) and it was pretty good. I like it cause its pretty tiring but doesnt wipe me out and I get a good sweat going… Probably next week I’ll start and end with a 2K
If you really want to test your conditioning on an erg you should give a 2k test a go. You would be better setting resistance around 5 or 6 (seems to be optimal resistance for me anyway). Also you would need a rough idea of split you need to go at to get the best time possible. Next time I try a 2k test I am aiming for under 6.40. Ultimatley I want to get it under 6.30, but that will take a lot of work.
Currently I am doing a lot of endurance work though for the next head of river race in London on the River Thames which is a 5k race, so I will probably only do one more 2k until regatta season next Summer. There will be a few races before then, but that is the big one and I do not want to miss out on getting in the crew because of lack of fitness and conditioning.
Seriously can’t wait to get back out on the water though, it is so much more fun than an erg. There is only so long before looking at the screen becomes unbearable especially when doing 60 minute pieces on the erg.