T-Nation C2 500m Sprint Competition

Training
181

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
I know, Im a dick and should read more of the recent posts before I start talking shit.[/quote]

couldnt have said it better myself… coming from someone with no pics, videos or even stats in their profile. lol

Good lookin out LM.

I’ve been working on my technique since your video critique and my stroke rate per minute on my last 2k was 23-24… average 500 on that 2k was 1:50… It was my “warm up” so it wasnt 100% all out. Felt a lot more smooth than before. thanks[/quote]

I swear your idea of warmup is ridiculous lol. If I was going to erg for a warmup (prior to lifting that is) it’d be 10-15 minutes steady state at an 18 really focusing on lengthening out and firing my muscles in sequence correctly. Personally I think you should focus on the length and connectivity over the next few weeks, really get your technique down, then take a day out and do an actual 2k test.

15-20 minutes extremely light steady state on the erg, hop off stretch, bathroom, maybe some gatorade and then hope on to go. Test around 28-30 base rate and then sprint it out in the last 250 (don’t go earlier then that until you learn force control or you’ll fly and die). Hell, film it and I’ll tell ya how you look at “race pace” which is usually different then steady state or other type workouts.[/quote]

By length and connect. warmup do you just break down the stroke, arms, arms and back 1/4 slide etc. and go for increase ROM or do you have a more thought out process for improving stroke length and overall mobility. I was always taught a very simple and relatively quick progression and then we would continue to focus on length during technique practice.

Just out of curiosity, I noticed you were from Georgia, do you train for the national team there or elsewhere?

182

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
By the way Liq.Mer what is your rowing background?[/quote]

10+ years at a national level of competition, possibly going to make one more run at the olympics before I’m too old. Coaching now for 7 years on both the collegiate and high school level. [/quot

Do you train in Georgia or do you go somewhere else for nat. team training. I’m a lw and as such could only train for the four. I’ve always wondered about how succ. people are without training at an elite club. Obviously it’s largely your int. motivation but I have always felt healthy comp. from true peers is almost as important.

183

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Ironwarrior25 wrote:
Any advice on hip mobility for rowing? I remember a while back you mentioning you were going to write up about it, or I may be mistaken. Might try and fit another steady state erg and some cycling in, but at least my times are starting to head in the right direction as are my numbers in the weight room. Thanks for the advice LM.[/quote]

I do a lot of side stepping over the bar set to a height that forces me to really stretch my ROM while not clipping the bar and thus racking my nuts on it or falling. I focus on lifting through my knee (imagine someone has a string attached to your knee and is pulling it upwards and then over the bar). I also go under the bar focusing on getting depth through my hips and not from my torso falling over or coming closer to my quads. I also do a lot of leg swings prior to this to get a bit looser.

Been focusing on finishing out the season with my kids, lots of traveling and coaching so I haven’t had much time to work on side-projects like getting a video up of hip mobility or erging. I’ll be at head of the hooch this weekend in chattanooga and then traveling for my other job the next week so maybe when I get some time off after the fall season and I’ll get these vids up for you guys. I truly think it’d help you out. If you have any requests or ideas about what you’d like to see feel free to post them in here.[/quote]

Thanks LM I will give this ago. It is really becoming a problem because by the end of the outing my hamstrings and hips are aching and feeling very tight. It is very uncomfortable and is actually getting to the point where my length of stroke is being affected as well as it being a major distraction when focusing on rowing. How often do you advise performing hip mobility work?

184

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
I know, Im a dick and should read more of the recent posts before I start talking shit.[/quote]

couldnt have said it better myself… coming from someone with no pics, videos or even stats in their profile. lol

Good lookin out LM.

I’ve been working on my technique since your video critique and my stroke rate per minute on my last 2k was 23-24… average 500 on that 2k was 1:50… It was my “warm up” so it wasnt 100% all out. Felt a lot more smooth than before. thanks[/quote]

I swear your idea of warmup is ridiculous lol. If I was going to erg for a warmup (prior to lifting that is) it’d be 10-15 minutes steady state at an 18 really focusing on lengthening out and firing my muscles in sequence correctly. Personally I think you should focus on the length and connectivity over the next few weeks, really get your technique down, then take a day out and do an actual 2k test.

15-20 minutes extremely light steady state on the erg, hop off stretch, bathroom, maybe some gatorade and then hope on to go. Test around 28-30 base rate and then sprint it out in the last 250 (don’t go earlier then that until you learn force control or you’ll fly and die). Hell, film it and I’ll tell ya how you look at “race pace” which is usually different then steady state or other type workouts.[/quote]

By length and connect. warmup do you just break down the stroke, arms, arms and back 1/4 slide etc. and go for increase ROM or do you have a more thought out process for improving stroke length and overall mobility. I was always taught a very simple and relatively quick progression and then we would continue to focus on length during technique practice.

Just out of curiosity, I noticed you were from Georgia, do you train for the national team there or elsewhere?[/quote]

Ugh, posted a response and fricken isn’t there anymore.

By length and connection during the warmup I mean it’s a focus. I don’t worry about the split and simply have an awareness of staying long and suspended and firing my muscles in sequence throughout the drive. Since I’m in a single/double more often then any big boats I don’t spend as much time on a typical arms/arms+body/quarter/half/full slide type kind of warmup, though those do have merit as far as getting a boat together.

As far as my training goes, I train in Atlanta but most of it’s on the erg or in a single and I’m not at any national training center. I think those centers have merit for sure just like training in a gym with other hardcore lifters is always a plus but I just do not have the ability to go train at one right now due to work and my life all being in Atlanta. I’m sure I’d do a bit better if I could, or even if I could just find a consistent training partner that would be willing to hop on the erg for some massive mileage with me so I don’t get too bored and so I can have a bit of accountability.

185

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
I know, Im a dick and should read more of the recent posts before I start talking shit.[/quote]

couldnt have said it better myself… coming from someone with no pics, videos or even stats in their profile. lol

Good lookin out LM.

I’ve been working on my technique since your video critique and my stroke rate per minute on my last 2k was 23-24… average 500 on that 2k was 1:50… It was my “warm up” so it wasnt 100% all out. Felt a lot more smooth than before. thanks[/quote]

I swear your idea of warmup is ridiculous lol. If I was going to erg for a warmup (prior to lifting that is) it’d be 10-15 minutes steady state at an 18 really focusing on lengthening out and firing my muscles in sequence correctly. Personally I think you should focus on the length and connectivity over the next few weeks, really get your technique down, then take a day out and do an actual 2k test.

15-20 minutes extremely light steady state on the erg, hop off stretch, bathroom, maybe some gatorade and then hope on to go. Test around 28-30 base rate and then sprint it out in the last 250 (don’t go earlier then that until you learn force control or you’ll fly and die). Hell, film it and I’ll tell ya how you look at “race pace” which is usually different then steady state or other type workouts.[/quote]

hahaha yeah I guess my “warm up” is a little unorthodox lol… I dont do very much rowing (just the sub 8 minute 2k to start each lifting session) because I’m trying to put on weight. I’d like to get up to 225lbs so I think a lot of rowing would be a bit counterproductive to that goal

186

To some extent yes. That being said heavyweight rowers are some helluva beastly guys usually (granted absolutely disproportionate). A lot of the guys I know are 6’5"+ and in the 230 range, all quads and back. So disproportionate. It’s like 35-36" legs, 32 inch waist, and maybe a 38-40 inch chest, if that. Kind of like tour de france cyclists, only these guys are tall.

187

^^Yeah i’m only 5’11"… definitely not 6’5" (I wish) a friend of mine (girlfriends sorority sisters husband) was an alternate for the olympic rowing team and all his buddies at the wedding were really tall. A few of them were on the actual olympic team (which was cool). They didnt win which sucks but being an Olympian is pretty bad ass.

Last time I rowed I was really concentrating on using my legs a lot and getting a good leg drive. I felt it the most in my hammies on my recovery. I was actively pulling my ass to my heels (homo??) on my recovery. I had done deads the day before so maybe thats why my hamstrings were fatigued and feeling it so much.

Is that common or what?

188

Here’s some interesting stuff. The gold medal winning men’s 8+ at Bejing did the 2k in 5:23 in 204 strokes with an average stroke rate of 38 spm. The SHORTEST guy was 6’ 3".

Your sore hammies could be from the DLs the day before or you could be pulling yourself back to the catch position. Go for a 2:1 or 3:1 tempo of drive to recovery. Example: count DRIVE, 2-3-4, DRIVE 2-3-4. YOU will move slower, but the BOAT will move faster, and that is what wins the race.

Luv this thread.

TNT

TNT

189

USA did it in 5:19 :wink: at 2004 olys.

190

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^Yeah i’m only 5’11"… definitely not 6’5" (I wish) a friend of mine (girlfriends sorority sisters husband) was an alternate for the olympic rowing team and all his buddies at the wedding were really tall. A few of them were on the actual olympic team (which was cool). They didnt win which sucks but being an Olympian is pretty bad ass.

Last time I rowed I was really concentrating on using my legs a lot and getting a good leg drive. I felt it the most in my hammies on my recovery. I was actively pulling my ass to my heels (homo??) on my recovery. I had done deads the day before so maybe thats why my hamstrings were fatigued and feeling it so much.

Is that common or what?[/quote]

I’m assuming you are using a rowing machine for conditioning, in which case the idea of ratio matters a little less because you arent training for the movement of a shell, but if you are getting a distinct feeling of pulling yourself back up the slide thats a bit much, soreness is probably from dl’s though.

191

Ratio is always important and will ultimately lead to more efficiency on the erg or the water. When we say it’s a little less important then on the water, it’s because the erg and your split times isn’t founded around letting the boat run out from under you, it’s more about raw power applied consistently. This does not mean have bad ratio on the erg.

If you have better ratio, you’ll have better times because ultimately it comes down to drive:rest. You want to minimize the amount of time it takes you to drive through the full stroke (derivative of power) and maximize your rest (recovery). As I tell rowers often, if it doesn’t look pretty, you’re not doing it right. Rowing is a beautiful sport when done right.

192

It sounds beautiful too. At 5:30 AM there isn’t a sound on the lake, except - Clunk, clunk.

TNT

193

[quote]TNT-CDN wrote:
It sounds beautiful too. At 5:30 AM there isn’t a sound on the lake, except - Clunk, clunk.

TNT[/quote]

Unless you have an annoying ass coxswain who won’t shut up and has no clue what they’re saying or a very obnoxious voice.

194

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]TNT-CDN wrote:
It sounds beautiful too. At 5:30 AM there isn’t a sound on the lake, except - Clunk, clunk.

TNT[/quote]

Unless you have an annoying ass coxswain who won’t shut up and has no clue what they’re saying or a very obnoxious voice.[/quote]

My uncle, who is kind of a prick, lives on a houseboat. A couple of years ago he put up such a stink about morning practice that the UW crews declared a no noise zone until from coxswains and coaches while they pass by the houseboats i one of the small bays they use. I hadnt thought of this in a while but it’s still funny. They do this for how many years and then stop cause some yuppie moves in and raises a stink.

195

Yah personally I’d told him to F off. I have to deal with things like that on a regular basis. We have a masters club down the river that tends to think they “own” the river and get all mad if people pass them (some of their members are pushing 70+) as they’re in their small boats on Saturday mornings, which is generally the only time we’re on the water when they are since the other days we’re in the afternoon.

196

I can’t believe I almost forgot about this thread. It’s been a long time since I’ve checked on here. Mainly because I have been so down and out due to not having rowed this season for my university. A stupid low-back problem flare up during training camp just screwed me over. I need to get back into conditioning and am so glad this thread is still alive knowing there are other people on this site just as passionate about rowing and it gives me the motivation to keep it going.

197

500m @ 1:28 yesterday. I want to get to 1:25 by January.

198

[quote]Therizza wrote:
500m @ 1:28 yesterday. I want to get to 1:25 by January.[/quote]

Nice time. What was the peak split you hit. I think when I did my last 500m sprint I went all out at the start and my split started to drop more than I expected. I reckon I can get it down if I just pace my self that little better even though it is a short sprint.

199

well, the last 150m was 1:24 pace. I had to dig myself out of a bit of a hole. I started strong, faded a little in the middle and came back at the end.

200

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Here’s a pic from head of the hooch. I’m sitting stroke (guy with glasses and hat).