T Lower After Taking Androgel

Ok so I have been on Androgel for approximately 4 months…and my total test has been all over the place…

before androgel total test 341

After 2 months total test 820

After 3 months 261!

WTF! Now its lower than where I started, whats with the dramatic swings. I dont feel too much different, now that I know Im nervous.

My Estrogen is at 120, which I believe is high. My doc now wants me to go on 6 pumps a day, (3 each arm) and take a supplement chreysin (spelling?) which she says can be an aromotase inhibitor.

Im at a loss, im starting to lose hope, any help would be appreciated.

The same thing happenned to me when I used Androgel. Your body responds at first, raising your test levels, then after time your body shuts down its own production and you stop absorbing the stuff, causing your levels to drop to before they were when you started. You sound like a good candidate for injections.

E2 levels of 120 sounds extremely high - please post units and/or lab ranges. If units are in pg/ml then you are indeed over the top end of the range for most labs (22 pg/ml is considered optimal), and chrysalin or other herbal remedies will not help much. You will need to get on an AI like Arimidex/anastrozole.

You should also be tested for thyroid function, as that can affect absorbtion of transdermals.

You may also need to find a new doctor.

Thanks PC:

Yes the estrogen measurement is in pg/ml…oddly enough the reference range is 130 or less. My doc says she wants to try this first before getting a rx for an AI. With a estrogen level that is high, what effects of this should I be feeling? I dont feel much different than I did a few months ago…so I am very confused. Should I insist on getting the AI script?

I have made an appt for an endo…but the closest appt I could get is 11/4. He did get great reviews from what I have read.

She was open to injenctions, as am I. I am wary of the cycling of injenctions as from what I have read is that you feel good for a few days and then crash when the T wears off.

I am pretty upset, it seems whenever I try to better my health everything gets even more convuluted and more confusing.

You seem to have been tested for total estrogens, congrats, you are not a menopausal woman. You really need to be tested for estradiol. One can probably work with total estrogens, but I don’t think that anyone knows the numbers. Target E2 is around 40% of range max. I don’t know how that would translate to total estrogens. In any case, you need Arimidex/anastrozole.

total estrogens is E1 + E2 + E3 plus other minor contributors

E1 estrONE
E2 estraDIol
E3 esTRIol

LOL … phew, at least I get one definite! so I should not read too much into this as it is the wrong hormone tested?

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
She was open to injenctions, as am I. I am wary of the cycling of injenctions as from what I have read is that you feel good for a few days and then crash when the T wears off.
[/quote]
If you inject more frequently than once a week, the effect is minimal. The test is suspended in an esther that allows for slow release once injected in a “depot”. The theory behind more frequent injections is that with this approach, you have multiple depots from the last injection, the one before that, etc. each releasing test at different rates, thus producing a semi-constant level at all times. Seems to work well from my experience as well as others on this site.

Self-injection is of course the only practical option with this approach.

Dude, I know you live in SI. I live in Queens and go to a top notch urologist with a fellowship in ANDROLOGY. I don’t know how far out of the way you want to go, but the top guys to see for hypogonadism in Long Island and New York City are:

Natan Bar Chama (Manhattan)
Harris Nagler (Not sure if he still practices; he became CEO of Beth Israel Hospital in the city.)
Brett Mellinger (My urologist-andrologist of eight years.)
Bruce Gilbert (Great Neck. Only one that DOESN’T take insurance.)

If you wanted to schlep to Long Island for a visit (perhaps you have friends or family there- I know you grew up in Woodside or LIC), I recommend my doc, Mellinger. He does NOT mess around and I’ve had success with him for eight years-using Androgel for that whole time except a two 1-month stints with clomid (HALF a tab).

He deals with it all: fertility, surgery, hypogonadism, impotence, and so on. He also prescribes what is necessary: clomid, Arimidex, HCG, Androgel, Testopel IF they are needed and when they are needed.

I take 10 g of Androgel and consistently test between 700 to 1000 for all this time. I get regularly checked for blood count, total T, free T, FSH, LH, and estradiol.

[quote]pcdude wrote:
The same thing happenned to me when I used Androgel. Your body responds at first, raising your test levels, then after time your body shuts down its own production and you stop absorbing the stuff, causing your levels to drop to before they were when you started. You sound like a good candidate for injections.

E2 levels of 120 sounds extremely high - please post units and/or lab ranges. If units are in pg/ml then you are indeed over the top end of the range for most labs (22 pg/ml is considered optimal), and chrysalin or other herbal remedies will not help much. You will need to get on an AI like Arimidex/anastrozole.

You should also be tested for thyroid function, as that can affect absorbtion of transdermals.

You may also need to find a new doctor.[/quote]

This is not a rule for all. Even if you were “shut down” Androgel still provides 7 to 10 mg of T per day, the same as functional testicles secrete daily. I was once shut down pretty bad on 10 g (LH and FSH nearly non-existent) and tested at a level of 1500 ng/dl. So much for not absorbing and being shut down. That was after FOUR years of using it.

I took clomid at half a tab per day (brought my FSH and LH up and T at around 600-something) and then We went down to 5 grams of androgel, but over time went back to 7.5, and then 10 again, and I haven’t had a problem since. I have no idea why that happened.

Brick - not everyone is lucky as you. Some? most? have problems absorbing any type of transdermal medication. It works at first then nothing. pcdude, myself, and countless others from this site and other forums.

From the details Matty provided it seems pretty clear that he is no longer absorbing the transdermal Test and needs to check out different delivery methods.

Pure: That can be the case for some. Thank goodness that’s not the case with me. All I was saying was that it’s not a rule for all. I was told by my doc that Androgel works in 95% of users, and this guy has been involved in urological and hormonal research himself. He’s also fixed up EVERY person I’ve refered to him.

The guys I mentioned don’t just prescribe Androgel for TRT. They prescribe other deliveries too. As you read in another post, I was thinking of going the Testopel route.

Thanks everyone for their input. I am going to explore all options. Its great knowing this forum is at my disposal its also in a way sad that many medical practioners simply do not know enough about T-replacement and what to look for.

Brick, I am definitely gonna check out the docs that you referred most likely Chama, because I work in Manhattan. I am going to send you an email, I know you dont use pm so ill send it to the one you have listed.

I guess my next step is the urologists and the endo, which I found another doc in NYC that will take me next week.

However what is everyones opinions on increasing androgel dosage to 3 pumps on each arm?

I don’t know much about Androgel and such, but I do know that injections work for me. You mention a “crash” every few days you’re concerned with. You can avoid this by injecting up to 2x/week, just in lesser amounts, e.g. I tested at around 670ng/dl 3 days after my lost shot of 25mg of T cypionate. I inject 50mg a week in 1 or 2 divided doses. The more I think about it the more I think I’m going to be doing 2x a week consistently.

EDIT: MY DOSAGE SHOULD READ 100MG/WEEK DIVIDED OVER 2 DOSES

^Thanks bro…it seems to make sense, if I can to the realization that the gel isnt for me injenctions would be the next step and I would likely follow that protocol

We have seen guys who can’t absorb T-gel and there docs keep increasing the dose and just don’t get the concept.

Testim did that to me. Went to 800 with the gel to 276 in a matter of a few months. Now on Testopel, going on my 6th day after 10 pellets implanted. I still can’t sit, jump or even lightly touch the area but I have great energy and good libido. I finally trained in the gym hard today. I can’t spar or jump rope but with a few Advils I can train upper body and punch the bags.

Testopel is literally a pain in the ass. But I like the result so far. Testim did nada for me. Hopefully this pain subsides soon bc it’s annoying now. I take resveratrol, IC3, Quercitin and twice weekly Sustain Alpha to control my E levels and so far very good.

[quote]christopher36 wrote:
Testim did that to me. Went to 800 with the gel to 276 in a matter of a few months. Now on Testopel, going on my 6th day after 10 pellets implanted. I still can’t sit, jump or even lightly touch the area but I have great energy and good libido. I finally trained in the gym hard today. I can’t spar or jump rope but with a few Advils I can train upper body and punch the bags.

Testopel is literally a pain in the ass. But I like the result so far. Testim did nada for me. Hopefully this pain subsides soon bc it’s annoying now. I take resveratrol, IC3, Quercitin and twice weekly Sustain Alpha to control my E levels and so far very good. [/quote]

Was the injenctions out of the question?

[quote]KSman wrote:
We have seen guys who can’t absorb T-gel and there docs keep increasing the dose and just don’t get the concept.[/quote]

Is it as simple as if you cant absorb it thats it? Or is it possible or have you seen people absorb the gel on higher dosage?

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Dude, I know you live in SI. I live in Queens and go to a top notch urologist with a fellowship in ANDROLOGY. I don’t know how far out of the way you want to go, but the top guys to see for hypogonadism in Long Island and New York City are:

Natan Bar Chama (Manhattan)
Harris Nagler (Not sure if he still practices; he became CEO of Beth Israel Hospital in the city.)
Brett Mellinger (My urologist-andrologist of eight years.)
Bruce Gilbert (Great Neck. Only one that DOESN’T take insurance.)

If you wanted to schlep to Long Island for a visit (perhaps you have friends or family there- I know you grew up in Woodside or LIC), I recommend my doc, Mellinger. He does NOT mess around and I’ve had success with him for eight years-using Androgel for that whole time except a two 1-month stints with clomid (HALF a tab).

He deals with it all: fertility, surgery, hypogonadism, impotence, and so on. He also prescribes what is necessary: clomid, Arimidex, HCG, Androgel, Testopel IF they are needed and when they are needed.

I take 10 g of Androgel and consistently test between 700 to 1000 for all this time. I get regularly checked for blood count, total T, free T, FSH, LH, and estradiol.[/quote]

Brick, you said you take .10 of androgel, did you start with .5 and moved up because it didnt work?

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]christopher36 wrote:
Testim did that to me. Went to 800 with the gel to 276 in a matter of a few months. Now on Testopel, going on my 6th day after 10 pellets implanted. I still can’t sit, jump or even lightly touch the area but I have great energy and good libido. I finally trained in the gym hard today. I can’t spar or jump rope but with a few Advils I can train upper body and punch the bags.

Testopel is literally a pain in the ass. But I like the result so far. Testim did nada for me. Hopefully this pain subsides soon bc it’s annoying now. I take resveratrol, IC3, Quercitin and twice weekly Sustain Alpha to control my E levels and so far very good. [/quote]

Was the injenctions out of the question?
[/quote]
I tried Test E 100mg. a week. A 50mg. shot twice weekly. I was using this along with HCG 250iu twice weekly. No AI and my Estradiol went to 44 Quest. Still in range.

But my mood swings were no bargain. It just didn’t work for me. Everyones different. HCG always affected me really bad, to the point of severe panic attacks and not being able to get out of bed. The shots just made me very angry all the time.

My Doctor is Dr. Mellinger. I spoke to him about all this and he suggested gels first and now Testo-pain. I like the energy and smooth mood with the pellets right now. Just the soreness is really bad. He says shrinkage is very minimal with low dose test therapy. I have filled back out since starting Testopel. So my very low test from the gels was causing me some shrinkage problems. This guy has been treating many men with TRT for years. He does many testopel treatments everyday and his patients prefer it.

I’m just waiting for this soreness to subside, time to go ice my ass. Later guys.

LOL, thanks Chris, is this the same Dr. Mellinger in Long Island?