Had my test levels checked a few weeks back and results came back slightly over 400 first thing in the morning, so i figured with the possible 7-10% decline this was unacceptable and might be a causing factor for some problems i’ve been having. Doc prescribed androgel 2.5g and have been taking this for roughly 3 weeks so far with a handful of missed doses so i’ve probably used about 15 packets.
It seems that even on such a low dose of test I am experiencing slight headaches, but more concerning is the anxiety and dysphoric feelings. Anyone else ever had this problem? I have had anxiety problems for years so its nothing new, but definitely exaggerated lately.
More importantly at this time i’d like to stop the androgel completely and dont know if i need to do any pct of any sort given the short time of use ( 2 weeks ) combined with the low dosage (2.5 grams).
I realize TRT is an inevitable part of my future but after further research I want to choose a different doctor to monitor things who will treat the symptoms and not the chart as i’ve read so many times recently here.
I just took my forst dose today of Androgel. I did not have a headache but I did notice a funny feeling not sure what it was. I took 10 g today and will take 5 a day after. So maybe the high dose I took had something to do with it. I ask my pharmisist about taking this for a month and stopping and if it would have any side effects he said I should be fine. For what that is worth. I am new to this also and here are a couple of links that mite help.
I’m sorry but I’m confused here. You say your total T is 400 right? Well that’s well above the bottom of the reference range for the tests that I know. In other words, it looks like your current doctor is already treating the “symptoms and not the chart,” as you say.
Anyway, I wouldn’t think that you’d need to do any sort of PCT regimen. In fact, it might be best to not do it even if you need to. If the androgel has been doing what it should, then your testes should be shut down and currently not producing any testosterone. Once you stop the androgel, then your blood levels of T will drop and that is the perfect time to get tested so that you come in with the lowest possible numbers.
If you feel you need to do something, then I would limit it to an AI like anastrozole. HCG has a suppressive effect on the HPTA, so while it will stimulate your testes to make testosterone, it won’t help your whole HPTA start functioning “normally” again.
[quote]happydog48 wrote:
I’m sorry but I’m confused here. You say your total T is 400 right? Well that’s well above the bottom of the reference range for the tests that I know. In other words, it looks like your current doctor is already treating the “symptoms and not the chart,” as you say.
Anyway, I wouldn’t think that you’d need to do any sort of PCT regimen. In fact, it might be best to not do it even if you need to. If the androgel has been doing what it should, then your testes should be shut down and currently not producing any testosterone. Once you stop the androgel, then your blood levels of T will drop and that is the perfect time to get tested so that you come in with the lowest possible numbers.
If you feel you need to do something, then I would limit it to an AI like anastrozole. HCG has a suppressive effect on the HPTA, so while it will stimulate your testes to make testosterone, it won’t help your whole HPTA start functioning “normally” again.[/quote]
The 400 number is a first thing in the morning test so i was figuring later in the day i’d be at 370 which at 33 years old seemed unreasonably low ( posting in the >35 group because it seems to be the best source of info ). After reading some posts here i’m thinking i’d like to switch doctors before i get too far into TRT so I can minimize the “welcome to hell” effects i’ve been reading about.
So i guess more refined my question is 15 packets at 2.5 grams per day something i can just easily stop and expect my normal natural test production to return within a reasonable amount of time? Not trying to sway any lab results, just want to re-think my strategy here.
happydog48, How long should it take to start feeling better. I heard 1 week then I heard a month and I have heard that the gel doesn’t work well with a lot of people. I also do not like the idea of worrying about getting gel on my wife or grand kids. Or hell the dog for that matter.
I do know 1 thing I am going to ask for the injections. I do not have any fear of needles and I only work 5 minutes away from my URO so going to get the injections would not be difficult. I also have read about your estrogen going up more on gel. Any tips for us beginners? Or things to look out for.
jakeman124 - what you heard is true. Some guys will start feeling better immediately and some take longer to start feeling better. You won’t know how you’re going to react until you get into it.
Lots of guys do fine on gel. The question is if you’re one of the guys that doesn’t do well, is your doctor going to be sensitive to that and know what to do as an alternative? The drug companies push the gel because they make a ton of money from it and if your doctor is getting his TRT info from the drug reps, then he might not have all the facts.
The interplay of hormones in the body is incredibly complex and ten guys with low testosterone probably have ten different reasons why their testosterone is low so they aren’t all going to react to the therapy the same way. Basically, all you can do is jump in and see what happens and then be ready to deal with any issues that may or may not appear. So you need to know about aromatase inhibitors and hCG. You may not need them, which would be great, but if you do, it’s good to have them waiting in the wings (so to speak).
[quote]happydog48 wrote:
jakeman124 - what you heard is true. Some guys will start feeling better immediately and some take longer to start feeling better. You won’t know how you’re going to react until you get into it.
Lots of guys do fine on gel. The question is if you’re one of the guys that doesn’t do well, is your doctor going to be sensitive to that and know what to do as an alternative? The drug companies push the gel because they make a ton of money from it and if your doctor is getting his TRT info from the drug reps, then he might not have all the facts.
The interplay of hormones in the body is incredibly complex and ten guys with low testosterone probably have ten different reasons why their testosterone is low so they aren’t all going to react to the therapy the same way. Basically, all you can do is jump in and see what happens and then be ready to deal with any issues that may or may not appear. So you need to know about aromatase inhibitors and hCG. You may not need them, which would be great, but if you do, it’s good to have them waiting in the wings (so to speak).[/quote]
Thanks
I went to my doctor because my labs were not good see below. She called the URO I am going to see and he put me on Androgel 5 mg/day until I see him 7th Jan. My GP told me if I need anything to ask her and she will do all she can to help. The URO does do TRT not sure about the HCG. But from what i have been reading your right I need these things on hand. I do not like the idea of my boys shrinking. This is my 3rd day on the gel and i will admin I am feeling better and my wife said she can tell also. I will just have to see how things work. I know it can take a long time to get things right and its going to be a long road but it has to be better than what i have been going through.
Jakeman:
If you stick with Androgel, you will likely find your estrogen going way up because a good deal of conversion of T to E happens in the skin. Absolutely do not put androgel on your chest or belly. Shoulders, inner biceps and flanks.
Also, hcg stimulates the testes which makes both T and E.
Androgel + HCG will mostly likely call for an aromatase inhibitor (e.g. Arimidex). Definitely bring these issues up to the urologist and be ready to advocate for yourself at every turn.
Many of us here will help you in anyway we can based on our own experiences.
[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Jakeman:
If you stick with Androgel, you will likely find your estrogen going way up because a good deal of conversion of T to E happens in the skin. Absolutely do not put androgel on your chest or belly. Shoulders, inner biceps and flanks.
Also, hcg stimulates the testes which makes both T and E.
Androgel + HCG will mostly likely call for an aromatase inhibitor (e.g. Arimidex). Definitely bring these issues up to the urologist and be ready to advocate for yourself at every turn.
Many of us here will help you in anyway we can based on our own experiences.
Good luck![/quote]
Thanks bigdawg011
I have been reading about the horror stories with doctors and treatment.
I also been reading that injections are better all the way around what’s your thoughts on this.
I have some documentation from a Dr. Crisler about TRT and HCG in case I need it, but for now I will go along with his treatment until I notice things going bad. Except I really do want the injections for convenience and I think less sides.
I have been using Androgel 5mg for 9 doses and the only real thing that I have noticed is that I feel better and can get my work done without getting as tired and sore.
I started to lifting weights again about 2 weeks ago using fairly light weights. It has been a long time so it will take a a long time to build up again. I am 47 and have osteoporosis in my back, so this old guy is going to take it easy and not overdo it. I want to be able to stay at this by not trying to push things too fast.
[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Absolutely do not put androgel on your chest or belly. Shoulders, inner biceps and flanks.[/quote]
If this is true, why does the manufacturer say to only apply it to the abdomen, upper arms and shoulders? Do you know more about this than the drug company that makes it?
Here is info directly from the drug company.
“Apply AndroGel only to healthy, normal skin on your abdomen (stomach area), shoulders, or upper arms.”
I have used it as directed by the manufacturer and by a doctor who knew better, and have labs to prove the higher aromatization when applied to a belly.
HCG manufacturers say that hcg is for IM administration only. However, there are doctors prescribing subq admin in subcutaneous fat in the abdomen.
Astra Zeneca says Arimidex is for women with estrogen receptor positive cancers.
HCG manufacturers say that hcg is for IM administration only. However, there are doctors prescribing subq admin in subcutaneous fat in the abdomen.
[/quote]
hCG is often injected at 3000 or 5000iu at once for female fertility work. That does not apply to men.
The study from 2005 that determined that 250iu hCG EOD would on average maintain testicular function when the HPTA is shut down, was done with SC injections, not IM.
[quote]wmk33 wrote:
Had my test levels checked a few weeks back and results came back slightly over 400
be a causing factor for some problems i’ve been having.
Appreciate any help and/or suggestions.[/quote]
What are the problems you are having?
Are you sure it is testosterone ?
(as happydog points out you are in “normal” range)
Have you investigated other causes for your problems? Diabetes? Heart Disease? Clinical Depression?
__
P.S. I would expect no problems going off that dose of androgel.
I would suggest putting off TRT for a while – at 400 it is clear your testicles are functional. I would try other ways to boost testosterone – like Biotest TRIBEX, eating more cruciferous vegetables, peanuts, making sure you have enough good fats in your diet etc.
But definitely look into what other things might cause your problems.
[quote]jakeman124 wrote:
I just started Androgel 5g a day. It isn’t absorbing so I’ll probably go to the injections. How can you tell when your hpta is shutting down? [/quote]
When your testicles stop producing testosterone.
It happens when you get a little ways into TRT. It is different for different people.
In my case I started w 5g of androgel. I don’t absorb it much either, but between that and what little test my balls were putting out, I got a little boost and felt better.
About 4 weeks later my testicles thought – “Ah androgel, thank god I don’t have to work anymore” and they shut down.
Consequently my testosterone level went into the toliet, lower than when I started HRT.
It was at this point that I went to injections.
I am not using HCG as I am not trying to conceive children, so I don’t need testicular function/sperm production. Nor does it matter to me that my balls have shrunk – it is not like I run around showing them to people.
(ksman and others believe there is benefit to having HCG as part of the TRT protocol for other reasons than sperm production/testicular atrophy - be assured that I am not dismissing that, as ksman is damn smart. But at least so far I am doing ok on TRT depending on my shots for testosterone)
Thanks e-loo Personally I think I would want to do the hcg. But I think I am like you the gel is not going to do it for me. I know I have only been on it for 5 days but I should be getting something out of it. I have frost colored stuff where I applied the gel and no matter what I do the frost is always there after I put on the gel. I was told it was from not spreading it out but that isn’t it.
Oh well I knew it was going to be a long ride. But it beats being the way I have been. I have a GP that is willing to work with me so I am lucky. I see a URO Jan. 7th. By the way I have psoriasis and I only have a few places I can put the gel on. I am also wondering if using corticosteroids for the last 9 months have something to do with the gel not aborsbing.
From what I understand, most docs will only prescribe the hcg if you are trying to have a baby. There are more “progressive” docs who will prescribe it as part of TRT; but it isn’t commonly done. It is probably one of those things that will become common 10 or 15 years from now.
I think some guys just don’t absorb it.
I am pretty sweaty and feel like my skin is thick. I had that frost thing too. My endo said that meant nothing, but I didn’t beleive him on that.
But some guys do really great with the gel.
As to the coritcosteroids – I was on a high dosage of predisone for about a year, the year in which my testicles officially failed. (I was low normal before). My endo seemed to suggest that the prednisone was one of the factors that might have caused my testicles to fail.
Prednisone saved my life, but it did screw me up in a lot of ways. So I don’t doubt that the stress of that drug could have contributed to testicular failure.