Hello all,
A quick question. As I am getting my macronutrients down for t-dawg2 for my workout days, I was wondering about the first meal after PWO. Normally, I know that I should get starchy clean carbs at the first meal after PWO. With T-Dawg2, since your carbs are limited, the only time you can have carbs would be breakfast and PWO right? Thanks for your help.
Hey, there, Sooby77. Long time, no speak. (grin)
T-Dawg 2.0 gives you a lot of freedom re the timing of your carb intake. In general the emphasis is supposed to be on green veggie carbs. But on resistance training days, you’d do well to take in your Surge (or Surge-type) drink PWO and take in the rest of your carbs in a starchy carb P+F meal. By “starchy,” I’m talking yams, sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal.
That means your other meals would be P+F meals. If you’re desprate for a little something in the way of variety to go with your P+F meals, try taking in either broccoli or spinach or mushrooms. They’re all low in net carbs. Net carbs are what you should count.
Net Carbs (g) = Total Carbs (g) - Fiber Carbs (g)
The reason I like to take the majority of my carbs in PWO is that’s the time that your body is primed to take up carbs. Since you just worked out, the body uses the carbs you take in to refill muscle glycogen, with nothing spilling over to fat.
If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask!
Tampa-Terry,
Thanks for the quick response (grin). So you are saying that instead of having a carb meal for breakfast on workout days, I simply move that carb meal to the meal after PWO, and have P+F meal for breakfast?
Exactly!!! I know it’s hard to break our long-standing dietary habits and routines, but manipulating carbs is the key to manipulating physique. It boils down to carb TIMING, carb TYPE and carb AMOUNTS.
A couple of ideas are, an egg white omelette (and an egg yolk, maybe), with spinach, cheese, onions and/or salsa. None of the above used in small amounts will add that many carbs. You could have all of the above condiments for <5g. And then, of course, there’s always the tried and true protein shake with flaxseed oil.
TT,
Oh, I don’t have any problems figuring out what I would eat. My roomate has already given up on me, since my dietary habit is beyond his comprehension. I have even tried the hemp oil/ EV Olive Oil by itself and I haven’t gagged yet!
I think I will take the chance and have have a delicious protein + fat breakfast instead of my usual 4 grain breakfast (whole barley, steelcut oat, buckwheat, and red bulgur). 
A quick question regarding RM in ABBH. 1RM is the heaviest I can lift for ONE rep right? How do you usually figure out your RM, TT?
Thanks! You are such a valuable member of t-nation!
Sooby, I “cheat” a bit re calculating my 1RM. I try to pick a weight that is challenging, something where I know I’ll fail at a number of reps less than 10. Then I multiply the number of reps I did by a coefficient that calculates 1RM.
And yes, a 1RM is the maximum amount of weight you can lift for one rep, but not a second rep.
Check out the following: http://www.engr.mun.ca/~butt/training/coefficients.html
Good question, Sooby!!!
Excellent info TT! Back to the PWO meal. So in essence my calories between workout days and non-workout days should only differ slightly in term of the additional PWO carbs and whatever additional protein or lesser displacement by the PWO drink.
For example, if I were to normally have 30g or proteins for that meal, but now my PWO has only 25g protein, I have less 20cal (5g x 4 cal)? And of course the extra 50g carbs from the PWO.
You got it, Sooby! P and F on both days stay the same. C varies 30g or 120 kCal, depending on whether it’s a workout day or not.
T-Dawg is an awesome diet. It’s gotten lots of people really good results without too much deprivation. I love the fact that it allows for extra carbs on days you do resistence training.
Be sure to allow yourself some sort of a cheat meal once a week. Weigh in on Friday morning, and allow yourself a cheat meal on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
Yeah, my problem is my cheat meal turns into Friday night, Saturday, then sometimes Sunday. I guess that is why I am gaining muscle from working out but not losing fat from what I am eating. I just got to get them all in order. It is a constant battle.
Indeed, Death, it’s always a battle. Nice avatar by the way!
So if I’m on a T-Dawg2 diet, my PWO carb would be 50g and Meal 1 after PWO would be 50g also. How about protein? What would be a good protein:carb ratio for the first meal after PWO?
→ ?gprotein:50gcarb
Re protein, you’ve got a few different choices. I usually eat LBM x 1.5g divided by 6 (the number of meals I eat per day). But you can also go a little lower on protein during the day and eat a little more protein PWO if you find that’s when you’re hungriest.
Option 3, of course, is to eat LESS protein PWO because the increased carbs are themselves protective of LBM. (grin)
Experiment and see what your body responds best to.
[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Re protein, you’ve got a few different choices. I usually eat LBM x 1.5g divided by 6 (the number of meals I eat per day).[/quote]
TT,
[This is kind of long, which I apologize for, but I bet I’m not the only person who has these questions.]
I’m a little confused by the various interpretations of the T-Dawg2 Diet. You say that you calculate your protein intake per day as LBM x 1.5g, but the diet description says, “suggest you get about 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.” So should I multiply 1.5g times total bodyweight or just lean body weight?
Another thing that has confused me is they say to calculate your total calories as “multiply your bodyweight (in pounds) by the number 15” and they go on to say “a 200 pound man would eat 3000 calories a day.” We’re also told to have 100g of carbs on WO days and 70g of carbs on non-WO days. Are we supposed to eat the same amount of calories on WO days and non-WO days? If so, then I have to make up the reduction in carbs by increasing fats, right? Because the amount of fat calories is determined by taking the total calories minus the carb calories minus the protein calories and I’m assuming the protein calories stay the same for WO and non-WO days.
However, in an earlier post above you said that you keep the protein AND fat calories the same for WO and non-WO days.
One more question: If you weigh more than 200, should you increase the 100g/70g carb limits since the total calories will increase? Example: 240 lb man is supposed to eat 240 x 15 = 3600 calories and 1.5g x 240 = 360g protein. If he eats 100g carbs on WO days, that would mean he would have to eat 1760 calories of fat or 196g to reach the 3600 cals for the day. If you adjust the 100g carbs by the ratio 240/200, it comes to 120g carbs and 187g fat.
If you or (or Chis S. or TC, the diet authors) could clear this up, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
I first just wanted to give a little shout out to TT. Great posts as usual. Nice to see you back and going strong. Seemed for a bit you were a little quiet, now I am hard pressed to even find a thread you have not covered to completion. I love it.
Now I will try and help out a bit and bat clean up. Being sure TT will chime in on anything I miss.
Answeres will follow a *****
[This is kind of long, which I apologize for, but I bet I’m not the only person who has these questions.]
****** No need, that is what the forumn is here for. Share and share alike.
I’m a little confused by the various interpretations of the T-Dawg2 Diet. You say that you calculate your protein intake per day as LBM x 1.5g, but the diet description says, “suggest you get about 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.” So should I multiply 1.5g times total bodyweight or just lean body weight?
This is actuallt the great thing about T-dawg. It versitility. It’s ability to fit everyone with minor tweeks. Some do use 1.5 x body wieght and others use LBM. You have to simply find what works for you. I find it even easier to simply go for 1g per lb of bodyweight while I am, cutting. I go up to 1.5-2 while bulking/maintaining.
Another thing that has confused me is they say to calculate your total calories as “multiply your bodyweight (in pounds) by the number 15” and they go on to say “a 200 pound man would eat 3000 calories a day.” We’re also told to have 100g of carbs on WO days and 70g of carbs on non-WO days. Are we supposed to eat the same amount of calories on WO days and non-WO days? If so, then I have to make up the reduction in carbs by increasing fats, right? Because the amount of fat calories is determined by taking the total calories minus the carb calories minus the protein calories and I’m assuming the protein calories stay the same for WO and non-WO days.
*******You have to simply find what works for you. I myself am like TT and find that using LBM gets me where I need to be losing at a rate of 1-2lbs a week NO MORE. Important to protect that LBM. So I would say start with using total bodymass. Give that a two week run and look at the results. If you are not losing the 1-2lbs of fat change it up. Unless you know your maint. k/cal intake then I find it just as simple to go 500 a day below that level.
**** This is the BIGGEST/most important thing to grasp on the whole diet. The timing and amount of carbs. Rpughly you have it correct. The way I go about the whole diet is I take in the same k/cal level day in day out. With the only thing varying being the swing in carbs and fats on w/o and non w/o days. You can roughly replace 2g of carbs with 1 g of fat, or vise versa.
However, in an earlier post above you said that you keep the protein AND fat calories the same for WO and non-WO days.
One more question: If you weigh more than 200, should you increase the 100g/70g carb limits since the total calories will increase? Example: 240 lb man is supposed to eat 240 x 15 = 3600 calories and 1.5g x 240 = 360g protein. If he eats 100g carbs on WO days, that would mean he would have to eat 1760 calories of fat or 196g to reach the 3600 cals for the day. If you adjust the 100g carbs by the ratio 240/200, it comes to 120g carbs and 187g fat.
***** yet another area for variance. While it really is not true T-dawg if you change the carb levels, this isanother area that can be changed to fit the person/ and goals. So yes you could raise the carbs a bit if you function better on 120. You simply need to test it out give it a two week trail period and see how it effects you. If you have better gym performance and keep losing fat then by all means do it.
****** The original layout of T-Dawg is great and will work for everyone. That is not saying that you cannot tweek it a little here and there to make it work even better for you and your goals. It is all about KNOWING your body and how it reacts. All these variables and such can seemingly get very overwhelming to some who just start the plan. I suggest simply following the Diet to a T. Check the results and if you think some tweeks may help do them ONE at a time. Giving each ample time to see the true result. Atleast 2 weeks.
If you or (or Chis S. or TC, the diet authors) could clear this up, I would really appreciate it.
***** I am neither nor any of these ppl but hey, I figured I would give it a go anyway.
Hope that helps,
Phill
The first meal after PWO I eat is fairly simple.
2 cups of Just Right (or similar) cereal with 1 cup of natural yoghurt sprinkled with some frozen mixed berries…
Yum yum!!
Hey, there, Midwest_Man!!! Sorry for the delay in responding. Special thanks to Phill for pinch-hitting for me!!! (He’s good that way. (grin))
There are different schools of thought re calculating macronutrient requirements. I’ve seen it done both ways; i.e., where TBW is use and where LBM is used. I use LBM when BF and BF percentages are higher. If someone were bulking and had a low BF% (i.e., very little BF), it’s easier/more convenient to use TBW.
So the bottom line is, you can do it either way. If you have a fast metabolism or do hard/demanding physical labor or are just young and very active, I’d probably use TBW, so as to get a few more calories. If the opposite is true, use LBM.
Re calculating caloric needs, I don’t even bother. Activity levels vary widely. The speed of people’s metabolisms vary widely. Age, too, varies widely. Maintenance calories for a given body weight can have a huge variance based on some of the vaiables I listed above.
You’d be safe to start with:
Daily Protein = 1.5g x LBM
Daily Fat = .4g x LBM
Daily CHO (WO Days) = 100g
Daily CHO (NWO Days) = 70g
No matter what numbers you start off with, they’re probably going to have to be adjusted. If you’re losing weight too fast after the first two weeks (the adjustment period), calories need to be adjusted upwards SLIGHTLY. If you’re not losing weight (once again, after the adjustment period), you’ll need to lower calories slightly.
You are correct that I keep protein and fat constant on workout and non-workout days. I manipulate carbs; timing, type and quantity. If energy levels are low or weight loss is too much/fast, I will raise carbs. If weight loss is too slow or non-existent, I will lower carbs first. This is generally speaking of course, because there are a lot of variable that need to be taken into consideration.
Go ahead and start with the 70g/100g of CHO (carbs). It’s actually pretty generous for a low-carb diet. It will allow you to use onions and garlic to flavor food. It will allow you to use some broccoli, spinach and mushrooms for variety.
I understand your argument that if someone has more muscle mass they might need more CHOs, but give T-Dawg a trial run with the recommended CHO numbers. It works for those with higher LBM numbers and lower LBM numbers alike.
Make sure you allow yourself at least two weeks to settle into T-Dawg before making changes to your diet. You may even feel lethargic or mentally foggy. What’s going on is that your body is shifting from being a sugar burner to being a fat burner. IF it happens, just hang tough, drink lots of coffee and take something like Power Drive, which provides the substrates that your brain needs for the “Alertness” neurotransmitters (Dopamine & acetycholine).
I hope that helps and that I answered your questions. If anything needs clarification, don’t hesitate to ask.
I finally got a chance to get online after a busy day at work and found all the answers I was looking for. Thank you very much, Phill and Tampa-Terry! You helped clarify the diet for me. T-Nation is great - I love these forums!
I guess I was being a little too anal about the numbers (I have an engineering background) and need to keep it simple at first, see how my body responds, and then adjust accordingly.
Thanks again
Exactly!!! Great choice…
Keep it simple, easy, and “damn it” try and have a bit of fun. LOL.
To many ppl get WAY to wrapped up in the #'s. Sure they are VERY important, but if you just step back and take it all for what it is, it wont be so overwhelming. It is a very simple, straight forward, and effective plan, Which also is VERY adaptable. We’ve all been there though, getting way to wrapped up in the minutia.
Glad I could help,
Phill