I was thinking of trying to convert synovex with an ester with one of the kits. I read on another board that the estrogen binders do not work. The reasoning behind this logic was the binders that were used in the past are now illegal and the new substances do not work.
I have 2 questions.
1)anyone know if this is true?
2) if the estrogen was not taken out would A-dex or any other med keep the estrogen from causing harm?
The “old” chems that were sold to bind the estradiol are not illegal. It is just illegal to sell them for the purpose of converting synovex-h pellets.
I would not trust or use any of the “new” kits. They are just as illegal as the old ones, and will land you in jail if you are caught with them.
Thanks for the info! Would ordering a tren kit fall under the same scrutiny as compared to just buying the products separately?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
The “old” chems that were sold to bind the estradiol are not illegal. It is just illegal to sell them for the purpose of converting synovex-h pellets.
I would not trust or use any of the “new” kits. They are just as illegal as the old ones, and will land you in jail if you are caught with them.
[/quote]
So then, can you clue me in on what this magic ingredient is? I have been searching for this info for awhile.
As far as I know there are only two people that know what it is. One is completely out of the game, and the other is sworn to secrecy.
I have no idea what it is, but I imagine one could figure it out with a little organic chem knowledge, and a little time.
sodium tert-butoxide
EDIT: at least that’s the consensus. I don’t know if anyone’s actually tried it. I looked into it and it does seem to make sense chemically, but i couldn’t find any place that sold less than multi-liter volumes, and you only need like 20-30ml at most.
[quote]swm1972 wrote:
So then, can you clue me in on what this magic ingredient is? I have been searching for this info for awhile.[/quote]
It is difficult to get a straight answer on this process. From what I have read you use NaOH(Sodium Hydroxide)and let it soak for one hour to get rid of the estrogen but hold on to the prop ester. Or 24 hours to produce test with no ester. Most say Sodium tert butoxide doesn’t work. I think the fear of the people who know how to do this process correctly is; if the info of a reliable method gets out then too many people will begin converting the Syno. Then the government will make it difficult to obtain these products. But, I know dick about chemistry and you will not find me doing this without a proven method.
If the estrodial was left in would any chem such as A-Dex, Nova, etc. neutralize the effects of the estrogen?
To WilliamH.Bonney:
The way chemistry works, it wouldn’t take 24 hours to remove the ester from test prop. It would begin the process immediately upon mixing the two chemicals. Perhaps it’s a slow process, so only some of the test prop is de-esterified, but then you’re losing product and you’d be left with a mix of test prop with test base, which wasn’t the case when I used the “estrogen solubilizer.” It would have to be strong enough to interact with estradiol, but not the testosterone. I’d imagine it has more to do with the ester, and not the hormone molecule.
To Primer220:
Yes, you could take an AI or SERM to reduce the effects of estradiol.
[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
To WilliamH.Bonney:
The way chemistry works, it wouldn’t take 24 hours to remove the ester from test prop. It would begin the process immediately upon mixing the two chemicals. Perhaps it’s a slow process, so only some of the test prop is de-esterified, but then you’re losing product and you’d be left with a mix of test prop with test base…[/quote]
Thanks for the info Schwarzenegger. I can’t argue this topic. My post was simply to underline the fact you will get as many answers on the subject as there are posters on a forum. And the potential to fuck yourself up seems too great, for me, without knowing a sure-fire method of seperating the estrogen from the test.
Yeah, I agree. I may experiment some day, if I ever need to. Of course I’d keep a load of AI and SERM on hand just in case. Trying it is the only real way to see if it works.
I read on another post that sodium butoxide will not sapinofy the ester, but it will salt the estrogen? Would this be an option and any idea on how much to use, on lets say, 5g?
By the way, an aromatase inhibitor will not help at all.
I once tried the idea of making a salt of the estrogen and separating it with water wash but the result was complete failure and so I can’t comment on that at all.
I did develop a method which works extremely well if having a rotary evaporator, but most do not have this. The method is simple: testosterone propionate can temporarily be concentrated down to far greater than saturation without crystallizing provided the time involved is fairly short (minutes not hours) and there are no seed crystals.
And so if for example a saturated solution of testosterone propionate and EB is concentrated down to say 10 times saturated, and a seed crystal of EB added (which could be obtained from the Synovex if further washing was done to guarantee no testosterone propionate remaining) then 90% of the estradiol benzoate crystallizes out. This is then filtered, slightly diluted, and then time is allowed for testosterone propionate to crystallize out. No further EB will crystallize out at this time.
A secondary crystallization will take care of whatever trace EB was carried over.
Hypothetically this might be done without rotary evaporation, by first dissolving in a small amount of chloroform, an amount just sufficient to dissolve all the TP but no more than this. Adding to some unknown amount of for example hexane could likely produce a 10:1 supersaturated solution that could be used in the same way described above.
It would be necessary to use TLC chromatography (much easier to do than it sounds) to verify outcomes and some experimentation to determine amounts of chloroform and hexane needed. If I recall correctly the solubility of TP in chloroform is either 1:1 (!!! yes, it may actually be that good) or 1 in 3, somewhere around there.
Myself though I’m not going to do that: my interest in the Synovex is actually to get the estrogen, as trenbolone-only drives estrogen levels too low.
Thanks for the catch Bill. A SERM would be needed, as an AI wouldn’t work with exogenous estrogen.
Great info on recrystallization methods of extracting the estrogen. I’ll run to my fully equipped chem lab to try this out! Seriously though, good to know, even if just for kicks.
Say you were to load up on an AI to completely eliminate aromatase activity, effectively dropping estradiol to near zero. What amount of exogenous estradiol would be optimal, or I guess you could say what would bring it to a normal physiological level? I can generalize a range of testosterone doses to testosterone levels, such as in HRT, but I really have no information about the estrogen side of things. Do you have any insight, or anyone else?
Perhaps it’s not worth asking, as it would be more cost-effective and less time-consuming to just adjust the AI dosage to match the drugs in the cycle. As you said, for non-test cycles it may be beneficial, though I’d imagine running even 100mg/wk of testosterone with a tren-only cycle would alleviate any too-low estrogen issues.
What I find personally with lack of estrogen, from use of exclusively non-aromatizing androgens and when not having any HCG, is reduced sex drive, perhaps greater tendency to depression, and sometimes a paradoxical effect of increased emotionalism rather as some complain happens to them with Clomid. I also think strength and mass gains are not as good. Muscle soreness seems worse. My traps, rhomboids, and teres have been an ongoing wreck since running out of HCG and Dianabol despite massage therapy. (However I ordinarily have problems with muscle tension anyway.)
I have supposed that a reasonable replacement dose is probably about 1 mg/day or maybe half that. I may be able to report shortly on what dose proved correct for me.
I agree completely that there are better methods than direct replacement: for example I would much rather use HCG on an ongoing basis.
I ran across this thread on a different board. Any of the chemistry Gurus have an opinion on whether this would be a good method for converting to Test Prop?
I found out the current estrogen stabilizer in the kits wil strip leave your test with a no-ester base so this seems like an alternative.
The Synovex Solution
by Dazed
Cattle implants are an easy way for the average guy to get his hands on some of the good stuff. Trenbolone acetate is the most popular of this form of steroid as it easily separated from Finaplix or Component pellets. It is usually made into an injectable or topical dosage form. Synovex-H is a lesser known implant that contains 2 grams of testosterone propionate (TP) and, unfortunately, 200mg of estradiol benzoate (EB) per cartridge. Synovex is even more readily available than Fina, and can be found with a simple internet search. No proof of cattle ownership is usually needed, and 20g of testosterone propionate can be had for as little as $70.
There are several ways to remove the estradiol that are commonly known. One involves using diethyl ether and a freezer, and another involves removing the esters before separating. The former method does not completely remove the estradiol, and the latter is bad because the pharmokinetics of straight testosterone in oil are less than desirable (the free base is better for transdermal preparations, however, and will be covered later). Ideally, we could remove the esterified testosterone, without the estrogen.
Good news! I�??m going to explain, step by step, how to separate pure testosterone propionate from the estradiol benzoate. The technique is basically a recrystallization of a supersaturated solution, which is commonly used in chemistry to purify substances. I will go through the method with the approximate amounts of chemicals needed to do one cart of Synovex-H. One cart refers to one green cartridge, which is a green cylinder full of pellets, and all together contains 2 grams of TP and 200mg of EB. The actual amounts of chemicals will vary every time you do the procedure, because variables such as temperature and atmospheric pressure are never the same all the time.
Recrystallization
Materials needed: Methanol (Heet) – The amount needed will vary with the number of recrystallizations. Distilled water, 2 glass containers (Jars preferably), a 60ml syringe, syringe prefilter (.8 to 1.2 micron) and coffee filters.
Note: Be sure to get regular Heet in the yellow bottle. Read the label and use it if it contains ONLY methyl alcohol, and only methyl alcohol.
The Theory (a.k.a how the hell does this work?)
In this method, we take advantage of the fact that there is ten times more testosterone propionate than estradiol benzoate in the cartridge. Both TP and EB are freely soluble in methanol and almost completely insoluble in water. As detailed in Weissberger’s “Technique of Organic Chemistry Volume III, Part I Separation and Purification.” (1), by slowly adding distilled water to the methanol/steroid solution, we can create a supersaturated solution. This supersaturated solution will crystallize; giving highly pure crystals of the substance that was supersaturated in the solution. Since there is ten times more TP than EB, the solution becomes saturated with TP first, so it will crystallize first. The crystals that form will be pure, but all of the TP will not come out of solution when the first crystals form. Only enough TP will crystallize so that the remaining TP in solution will not be extremely supersaturated. For example, if 200mg TP crystallizes, 1800mg will still be in solution per cart. The one thing to be aware of is that after a certain amount of water is added, the EB will become supersaturated and crystallize as well. The only way to know for sure if there is estrogen in your crystals will be to do take a melting point of some of the crystals.
The Nitty Gritty
Dissolve the cart in 80mls of methanol. This will take about an hour. I put everything in a jar and shake it up. Also, crushing the pellets after about 15 minutes of soaking speeds up the process. Let the filler settle on the bottom of the jar. Use a 60ml syringe to draw up the liquid above the filler that has settled on the bottom. You can leave most of the filler at the bottom, as it is a mess to filter.
Put the syringe filter on and filter the solution into a new, clean, dry jar. The solution should be clear. Now we begin adding the distilled water. The water should be added slowly, and when opalescence is seen in the solution, the water should stop being added, because crystallization is occurring. The whole solution needs to be cloudy before crystallization will really occur, do not confuse this with the cloudiness that happens right where the water hits the methanol. Once the solution is cloudy, screw the cap on the jar and let it sit for at least a half hour. The amount of water that you need to add to get crystals is about 13-25 ml. Be sure to add the water slowly after 10 ml or so. Be patient, because the slower that the crystals form, the more pure they are.
Once the crystals have formed, you want to harvest them. Place a coffee filter in the mouth of another clean, dry jar, so that the crystals can be filtered. Swirl the solutions before you pour it to make sure you get all the crystals. Squeeze the excess liquid through the filter. Once the solution is completely through the filter, remove the filter, label it as the 1st crop, and set it aside. This process is then repeated. Water is added to the solution we just filtered until it is cloudy. Seal the jar and let it crystallize, and harvest the crystals. Be sure to label each crop of crystals – the number of crops needed will vary.
Once all the crystals are harvested, and allowed to dry overnight, it is time to process them. A melting point will be needed for each crop of crystals. The melting point of TP is 120-122 C (248-251.6 F). If estrogen is present, the melting point of the crystals will be lower than this. Our goal is to get the melting point to 120 C (248 F). Most likely all of the first crops of crystals will have some estrogen in them. This is where the procedure gets a little complicated, but if you can do this, you will be successful. To get really pure crystals, just enough methanol is added to each crop of crystals so that all the crystals are dissolved. Water is added drop wise to these solutions until crystals form, just as we did previously. The crystals are harvested, and melting points are taken. It usually only takes a few simple recrystallizations to get a really pure product. The yield will vary each time you try this, but I recommend just doing one cart at a time, until you get the hang of it.
There are many ways to measure melting point, but an easy way to do it at home is to put some about oil in a pan on a stovetop burner. You will need an accurate thermometer, a test tube, and a few milligrams of your crystals. Be sure you can easily tell the difference between 115 C (239 F) and 120 C (248 F) degrees, this small difference is important! Turn on the burner and heat it to about 100 C (212 F). Make sure the temp is stable. Now put the crystals in the test tube and hold this in the oil, but do not let the test tube touch the bottom of the pan. Slowly increase the heat until the crystals melt, and note the temperature. When the crystals melt at 118 C - 120 C (244.4 F - 248 F), you have pure testosterone propionate.
Making an injectable
If you decide you would like to make the testosterone propionate into an injectable form, Here is how to do it at 100mg/ml. Put the crystals in an empty, clean, dry vial. Add 1 ml of benzyl alcohol (USP grade) per gram of TP. Add 8 ml of vegetable oil per gram of TP. Mix this up by swirling it around. Place it in an oven set at about 170 C (338 F) for five to ten minutes to really heat up the oil. This will make it easy to filter. Once it is hot, draw everything up into a 60ml syringe. Put a .45 or .22 micron filter on the syringe, and a sterile needle, and filter the oil into a sterile vial. Be sure to vent the vial with another needle by sticking one needle it the vial, but with nothing on the end, so that the pressure in the vial is equalized. Benzyl alcohol and syringe filters are fairly easy to find on the net. If you ask around one of the more popular discussion boards, someone will probably point you in the right direction. TP is a bit painful, but several people have used this method successfully.
Making a transdermal
If you want to prepare the crystals for transdermal use, you need to remove the ester group. The supplies you need are sodium hydroxide, distilled water, and methanol. Dissolve the testosterone crystals in a minimum amount of methanol. In a separate container, dissolve 1/8 teaspoon of sodium hydroxide in 8 oz of hot distilled water. Once dissolved, add the sodium hydroxide solution to the methanol/test solution. This will turn white instantly. Let this react for a few minutes. Next add an additional 8 oz of water, to make sure all the salt that was formed is dissolved. The white stuff you see is pure unesterfied testosterone, and it should be filtered out. You should run water over the testosterone while it is on the filter to make sure all of the salts and hydroxides are removed. Ideally you would test the pH of the test to make sure all of the hydroxides are rinsed off. Dry the powder and add it to your favorite topical mix.
Editors Note: It would mix particularly well with ONE, not only because of the superior transdermal formula, but because of the synergism of the 1-testosterone with the added estrogen from aromatization of the testosterone.
References:
1.Weissberger, Arnold (Ed) (1956). Technique of Organic Chemistry Volume III, Part I Separation and Purification. 2nd Ed. New York: Interscience Publishers, Inc
Has anyone tried this method yet?
I have tried the process and it made some fairly painless Test-P. No way of knowing if I got all the estro out…rudimentary melting point tests (for what little that’s worth…) confirms purity, and will know how well it works in about 2 wks…will post results here at that time.
Thanks,
I will be looking forward to your update.
[quote]testolius wrote:
I have tried the process and it made some fairly painless Test-P. No way of knowing if I got all the estro out…rudimentary melting point tests (for what little that’s worth…) confirms purity, and will know how well it works in about 2 wks…will post results here at that time.[/quote]
Did you use the method that primer posted?