George Elliott should get his head examined.
In 1996 George Elliott helped Kerry campaign for the Senate.
Then George Elliott joins the “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth”
Then yesterday George Elliott takes back everything he said about Kerry being a liar.
Now today, you guys are saying George Elliott changed his mind about taking back everything he said.
I can’t wait to hear what George Elliott says next. I’m supposed to change my mind about Kerry based on this idiot?
Lumpy:
There have been interviews all over the major networks with Kerry’s former shipmates. These seem like stand up guys to me. And all of them to a man are saying some pretty nasty things about John Kerry! All I can add to this is that I am surprised as I thought Kerry was a war hero. However, not according to these men.
-So Kerry was fighting on the side of the Vietnamese? He was anti-America? His real purpose was to assist the enemy?
Kerry aided the enemy by his actions after the war, ie. Propaganda used by our enemy.
Or are you saying his purpose to enlist in the war was to fake injuries and award himself bogus medals so when he made a run for office he would have those to look like a hero? Yes
Yes, he could put the US into the biggest deficit in the history of this country, $374 billion, the highest ever in dollar terms.
-He could ruin our country’s image further in the Arab world, and put strains on the relationships with many of our allies
-he could start an unnecessary and expensive war based on non-existent WMD where our soldiers are dying for nothing and where the people of the country we liberated now hate us more than before we invaded
Bush didn’t start this war, and where are the WMD’s? Syria? Iran? If we waited for people like you to act we wouldn’t find them until they were released in a city near you. Our French allies didn’t act in WWII until it was too late, is that what you think we should do, wait.
No, Socialists, I believe in No Work, No Food. Guys like Kerry believe in you work for his food. Read one of Richard Marcinko’s books and you will get a flavor for guys like Kerry.
What a monumental distraction. Bush’s buddy in Houston, who financed these ads, has achieved some measure of success by distracting everyone from Bush’s record as president.
kuri,
Um…it’s politics…remember?
I don’t remember seeing or hearing any of the left whining in 2000 over the NAACP ads that portrayed Bush as not caring about the murder of an innocent black man.
But truth has never really been one of the left’s strong suits. Nor have they been open to allowing other vets to speak their mind when it runs counter to what they are trying to ram down our throats.
Being a retired Airborne Ranger as well as what I would like to consider as an intellectual, intelligent and well traveled man, I choose to examine every issue from as much of an objective point of view as possible when it comes to military issue. The world us too complicated and complex to make it simple “black/white”, “you/me”, “us/them”, and of course the current thread Democrat/Republican. I enjoy recieving almost daily emails from a website called factcheck.org. It is a non partisan website, and it takes both sides to task when necessary for comments or claims that are made. And what I really like is that it backs it up with facts. Just like we all like here with our supplements and training. Here is what they say about the Swift Boat Vets. http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231. Check out the archives and you’ll see that they are very even handed. It gives us a chance to actually think and decide for ourselves with the influence and bandwagon approach to either party.
Thank you Warriorsage for an informative web site. Since only a small number of people witnessed these events, we must come to our own conclusions about what happened. Also, thank you for your service to our great country.
[quote]lincono wrote:
Thank you Warriorsage for an informative web site. Since only a small number of people witnessed these events, we must come to our own conclusions about what happened. Also, thank you for your service to our great country.[/quote]
Thank you very much lincono for your appreciation. It means a great deal to us that served during times when it wasn’t obvious that the U.S. was involved in anything. There wasn’t a public declaration of war or 24/7 news coverage of whenever a soldier sneezed. I get a sense of personal satisfaction and gratitude when I’m recognized just for having served, even though hardly anyone knows, or will ever know most of what special operations is involved in now, has been involved in or will be involved with in the future.
By the way I mis-typed something in my previous post. I typed “It gives us a chance to actually think and decide for ourselves with the influence and bandwagon approach to either party.” That sentence should have read WITHOUT the influence and bandwagon approach to either party.
This leads me to my next point. F. Scott Fitzgerald once wrote “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” It seems to me that a large number of people on this thread, as well as in this country, and indeed possibly on this planet have or have had a difficulty with mastering this challenge. Just because you support George Bush does not mean you MUST support the war in Iraq. Equally true is just because you support John Kerry does not mean you MUST NOT support the war in Iraq. I know this seems incredibly simple but so many people seem to have a hard time with this. When you, as an individual take the time to examine all the facts, without the influence of your parents, friends, or political leaders values and beliefs coloring your values and beliefs what does your mind and your heart tell you. Even though I am a libertarian, I for one did not vote for President Bush, I didn’t think he had the leadership skills or the experience for the job. I disagreed and was dismayed with the way the Republicans handled themselves in the Florida recount; but when the time came and Mr. Bush was named President he became my President. I supported him as such and expected great things, if only because I believe one should expect great things from someone that is supposed to be the leader of the free world. Unfortunately, I have been greatly disappointed. Their have been too many lies, too many bait and switches, and too many backroom deals with corporate owners and people that even though the trillions they make are due to the hard working people they employ, are more than willing to allow those very same people suffer with less just to line the pockets of their great-great grandchildren. Oh, I could go on and on and on. But I’m beginning to feel a diatribe coming on, and that’s not what this post is about. What I really want to say is that I emplore my fellow T-men and T- woman to CONSCIOUSLY think. Be aware of who and whom may be influencing you, step out of the emotion of hate and anger and fury at those that have done evil things to us and keep in mind the endgame. What are we after as a nation, as an American people, and as the grandest of all experiments in democracy in the history of the world? I have never seen any situation where by going over and beating on someone the antagonist get what they want. They may have established power in the moment, but it is short lived. Because the bully eventually gets his ass kicked, we all know it, we’ve all seen it or been a part of it. Long term thinking, beyond the four or eight years in office is what we need in a President. That requires PRINCIPLED leadership. Not just bible thumping and bullwhip cracking. When it’s time to kick ass, go kick ass, but kick ass judiciously. (I think that’s paraphrasing a samurai quote in there somewhere =))
Whew! I had my rant. Now I’m going to squat something really heavy!
WarriorsAge pointed out a great website, even one that is willing to update…
Update: More on anti-Kerry ad from “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth”
08.09.2004
A note to our subscribers: We have extensively updated one section of our article, published Friday, Aug. 6, titled “Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry’s War Record.”
The new material reflects a new affidavit signed by Kerry’s former commanding officer, George Elliott. Elliott had been quoted by the Boston Globe as saying he made a “terrible mistake” signing an affidavit in which he questioned the circumstances under which Kerry received the Silver Star.
We originally reported that Elliott had recanted his affidavit. Now he says he still stands by the words he speaks in the TV ad, and makes what he describes as only an “immaterial clarification” to his original affidavit supporting that ad.
We note, however, that Elliott’s latest affidavit is misleading, containing an incorrect characterization of the official basis for Kerry’s Silver Star.
Read more at http://www.factcheck.org
Warriorsage-
Thank you… people like you restore my faith in America! Your points regarding our current President ring loud and true!
Sometimes politics comes down to the lesser of two evils. I’m no fan of George Bush but for the most part he has done what he said he would do after 9/11. John Kerry on the other hand, seems like many of the liberal politicians we have here in California, saying one thing and doing another, while benefiting themselves financially to the detriment of the taxpayer and the economy.
I don’t mean to seem like I am wishing my life away, but I will be glad when November rolls around.
President Bush will go on being President, and John Kerry can go do whatever it is that he does, after he loses the election in the largest landslide since Reagan/Mondale.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy discussion and debate, but really, no kidding, is John Kerry the best the Democrats could come up with? If I was a Democrat, I would be pissed off!
It’s one thing to lose the election, it’s another to know that your going to lose from the very start. That must be a low feeling. No wonder so many of you lefties seem to be so bitter.
I will let you in on a little secret. Bush is not a right winger, he is a moderate. I should know, I am a right winger.
I don’t think anyone that is either extreme left, or extreme right is electable.
Kerry is way to far left, not to mention that he has a liberal lawyer for a running mate. No middle ground, not electable.
I guess we can wait until November to stop arguing about this, but there really is no need to wait. It is a foregone conclusion.
I am sitting here, typing on my keyboard, breathing air, and George W. Bush will be re-elected.
Now maybe we can focus on Kerry’s Senatorial voting record, changing positions and lack of political leadership.
From Instapundit:
http://instapundit.com/archives/017107.php
THE ANNENBERG OUTFIT, FACTCHECK.ORG, offers a defense of Kerry that’s better than the Kerry Campaign has managed – citing facts and evidence and everything – though it concludes: “At this point, 35 years later and half a world away, we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth.” This piece is about the Swiftvets ad, though, and doesn’t mention Cambodia.
All I’ve got to say about this is that if it is successful, then groups such as MoveOn.org, America Coming Together, Media Fund, almost all the unions (particularly the NEA and the AFL-CIO – remember the ads about throwing old people in the street from Clinton v. Dole?), and the NAACP (remember the Byrd ads?) had better look out.
Generally, there should be fewer, not more, restraints on political speech, but who knows what the courts would allow? This is the problem with speech regulation and allowing political orgs to be tax exempts.
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040810_843.html
Groups File Complaint Over Anti-Kerry Ad
Three Campaign Watchdog Groups File Complaint Over Anti-Kerry Ad by Group of Vietnam Veterans
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON Aug. 10, 2004 ? Three campaign finance watchdog groups filed a complaint Tuesday accusing a group of Vietnam veterans of violating the campaign finance law by airing an ad that challenges Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry’s military record.
Democracy 21, the Center for Responsive Politics and the Campaign Legal Center argue that the ad by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth violates a federal ban on the use of unlimited donations, often referred to as “soft money,” to influence federal elections.
In the ad, the group accuses Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran, of lying about his war record and betraying fellow veterans by later protesting the conflict. Veterans who served with Kerry on his swiftboat have said the group is lying, and Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona has called the ad “dishonest and dishonorable.”
The group bought $500,000 worth of airtime to run the ad in Wisconsin, Ohio and West Virginia.
In the complaint to the Federal Election Commission, the watchdog groups argued that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth should have used only limited contributions from individuals known as hard money on the ad and should disclose its donations and spending in reports to the FEC.
“We this think is open and shut, that the only purpose of this group is to influence the presidential election,” said Fred Wertheimer, head of Democracy 21.
Mike Russell, a spokesman for Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, said the ad is legal because it does not tell viewers which candidate they should vote for in the presidential race.
“The ads are not meant to influence the presidential election. The ads are meant to tell the truth about John Kerry’s service record so people can make their own decisions,” Russell said.
The veterans group said it has at least 5,000 new contributors and has raised more than $230,000 since the ad started running last week.
On the Net:
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth:
Democracy 21:
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Certainly the effort by the DNC to halt the advertisement has back fired!
I wonder if these groups will file suit to have “Unfit for Duty” removed from the shelves.
It smacks just a wee bit of hypocrisy for the left to act this way about an ad/book they disagree with, while at the same time having a group orgasm over F911.
For me, I still find it very hard to care about the Viet Nam stuff when what I really want to focus on is Kerry’s record in the Senate, especially vis a vis the Cold War and Reagan’s policies, such as Central America.
However, I can see why some folks care.
Thoughts from a veteran, who is a law professor at University of Tennessee, via Instapundit:
[scroll down approximately half way if you follow the link]
http://instapundit.com/archives/017115.php
I really appreciate that you are addressing the Kerry in Vietnam issue. As a preliminary matter, I initially thought that Kerry's and Bush's service in the late 1960s and earlty 1970s was irrelevant to the question of who would make a better President.
But, Kerry's emphasis on his service in Vietnam raises issues important to me.
First, as a combat veteran of Vietnam (Aug 1969-May 1970), I was starting to feel that if the Swiftboat veterans questioning Kerry's Vietnam service could not be heard, then this country is not worth defending. Fortunately, they are getting to be heard.
Second, even without the critics of Kerry's Vietnam service, the prominence that Kerry has placed on Vietnam is mystifying. For example, why would any active duty officer go back and restage his activities for film? What kind of person would do that? I had a camera in Vietnam, and I took pictures. But not in combat, and not to recreate my combat experiences. I suggest that this action suggests something important about Kerry's character, and it is not good. Along the lines of a Nixon and Clinton.
Second, emphasize four months in Vietnam and ignore one's Senate record? How can anyone buy that? Can Kerry believe that no one will pay attention to his Senate record? I find it hard to believe that Kerry can sell himself as a hawk now (and criticise Bush) when he has one of the most appeasement-oriented and anti-military and anti-intelligence records in the senate.
Third, if you add all of this together, plus the allegations of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, you get the sense that Kerry will say anything to get what he wants (in this case, the Presidency) whether it is true or not. Everthing points to an uprincipled person along the lines of a Nixon.
I am glad this is being aired. Do we really want a President who has this kind of character?
Rainjack,
If Kerry is telling the truth, he has nothing to worry about.
If not, no wonder he’s nervous.
The liberal tactic of “unleashing 10,000 lawyers” makes me angry.
Oh wait, his number two is a malpractice/trial lawyer. 23 of his 25 Edwards’ top donors during the primaries were from trial lawyers.
Disgusting,
JeffR
Chucksmanjoe,
Is your private messaging working? I sent you a question earlier.
I was wondering if you heard anything new about the nuclear weapons in Iraq? If you would like, my private messaging is working.
JeffR