[quote]Lumpy wrote:
This ploy by the dirty tricks crew in the Republican party is going to backfire, big time. I don’t see the wisdom in slandering the way our military awards medals. If we are to believe these Swift Boat clowns, the Navy are a bunch of pussies who award themselves medals every time they scrape a knee.
Some of these clowns actually endorsed Kerry when he ran for Senate in 1996, but when he announced his presidential bid, that’s when this attack group was formed.
If Team Bush can successfully find some sad sacks who are willing to claim that John Kerry wounded himself (!) why can’t they find ONE SINGLE GUY who remembers serving with George Bush, when Bush was allegedly AWOL?
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Sinking in Their Own Sea of Lies
By WILLIAM D. McTAVISH
Aug 20, 2004
That gurgling sound you hear is the ever-increasing number of leaks in the credibility of the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Yes, the Swift Boats are sinking in their own sea of lies, sunk by a fusillade of reality that exposed the bitter old Vietnam Veterans as just another Republican led and funded shill operation for the Presidential campaign of George W. Bush.
Those who know how politics really work in Washington saw SBVT for what they really were but that didn?t stop them from getting gobs of play from the right-wing ring of the media circus and the ultra-conservative bulletin boards where lonely Midwestern housewives and gullible retirees post hate-filled screeds against anything that doesn?t fit into their narrow view of the world.
SBVT’s public leader is John E. O’Neill, a longtime GOP operative but he’s been in the middle of these things before. Back in 1971, O’Neill claimed to have formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace, a bunch of pro-war veterans sent out to counter the antiwar activities of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, led by one John F. Kerry.
But, like SBVT, Vietnam Veterans for Just Peace was a shill, a creation of President Richard M. Nixon’s chief counsel (and hatchet man) Charles Colson.
“We found a vet named John O’Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O’Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group,” Colson admitted to reporter Joe Klein in a January 5 interview published in The New Yorker magazine.
O’Neill is a documented liar. He tells interviewers that he is “neither a Democrat nor a Republican,” but Federal Election Commission records show he contributes only to Republican candidates. He claims he has never been active politically, but newspaper articles in his hometown of Houston, Texas carry numerous accounts of his political activities on behalf of the Republican Party.
He claims SBVT has raised $450,000 --mainly from small contributors-- but the IRS filings of the group show at least $300,000 has come from two Texas millionaires with strong ties to President Bush.
O’Neill co-authored the anti-Kerry diatribe called Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry, with Harvard PhD Jerome Corsi, a virulent, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, homophobic right-wing author who posts venom-filled attacks on conservative bulletin boards, calling Kerry “John Fucking Commie Kerry” and Senator Hillary Clinton a “fat hog.”
They based their book, and an accompanying attack television ad, on accounts by Swift Boat vets who did not serve directly with Kerry and several of whom have changed their stories or been caught in lies of their own.
For example:
-
Larry Thurlow, commander of another Swift Boat at the same time as Kerry who claims the Presidential nominee lied about being “under fire” when he earned a Bronze Star for rescuing a Green Beret. Turns out Thurlow also received a Bronze Star for the same action and his citation talks about being “under heavy small arms fire.” Turlow claims he never read the citation and it was wrong. The Green Beret Kerry rescued tells a different story, saying he was under fire and sure he was gonna die.
-
George Elliott, a former Navy Lt. Commander who claimed Kerry lied about his Vietnam activities, then recanted that story in an interview with the Boston Globe, then recanted his recent. Elliott also appeared at a rally in support of Kerry during one of his Senate campaigns.
-
Retired Admiral Roy Hoffman, on May 6, told Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter Steve Schultze he had “no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry’s claims to valor” and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn’t know Kerry much personally. On August 5, however, Hoffman told Sean Hannity on his ABC radio show that “I knew him (Kerry) well, because I operated very closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the operations were-were conducted with multiple boats.”
“This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency,” says Jim Rassmann, the former Green Beret Kerry rescued under fire. “Their charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam.”
Rassman, by the way, says he is “a Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for Republicans.” He is also a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.
There’s an old rule in combat. Trust the guys who serve with you, fight along side with you and face death with you. Four of the five guys who served with Kerry in his Swift Boat say the SBVT guys are full of crap.
When it comes to who to believe about what happened in a long-ago war in a far-away place, I’ll trust the guys who served with John Kerry long before I’ll listen to a pack of documented liars with a proven partisan agenda.
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are anything but and their hypocrisy and deception are now exposed for all to see.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_5072.shtml[/quote]
[Note: Many links embedded in original post, so follow the link below for the internal links]
http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/08/wapo_reports_on.html
WaPo reports on Thurlow’s Bronze Star citation
In terms of the blogospheric news cycle, I’m late in commenting on the Washington Post’s front-page, above-the-fold story today by staff reporter Michael Dobbs entitled “Records Counter a Critic of Kerry: Fellow Skipper’s Citation Refers To Enemy Fire.”
Not that that’s ever stopped me before. (More timely pundits’ reactions include posts by NRO’s Jim Geraghty, Outside the Beltway’s James Joyner, PrestoPundit Greg Ransom, InstaPundit Glenn Reynolds, Roger L. Simon, and I’m sure many others.) [Update: My media-savy friend Patterico also has a fine take on his own blog and a shorter version in my comments below.]
Some folks’ reaction to the entire Swiftvets vs. Kerry controversy is, “If the Navy said Kerry was brave and deserved the medals he got, that’s good enough for me, and I’m not interested in second-guessing any of this stuff.” Of course, if that’s your viewpoint, then WaPo’s story about Larry Thurlow should also be a non-event. All this story has “revealed” is that whoever wrote up the citation for Thurlow’s Bronze Star was under the impression that there was enemy fire from the shores, in addition to the obvious dangers of the sort posed by the mine that had already exploded, during the action on the Bay Hap River that resulted in Bronze Stars for both Thurlow and Kerry. We already knew, from Kerry’s citation, that whoever wrote that one up was also under the same impression.
What the WaPo story has been spun to suggest ? but which, read carefully, it certainly does not say ? is that somehow Thurlow has contradicted himself. He hasn’t.
In evidentiary terms that lawyers would use in a courtroom, the citation for Thurlow’s Bronze Star couldn’t be used to impeach Thurlow’s testimony because it’s not a prior inconsistent statement by him. It’s a prior inconsistent statement by someone else ? and we don’t know who that someone else is, much less whether that someone else was the same person who wrote up Kerry’s citation, or whether that someone may have been relying on a common source who did have first-hand knowledge of the incident. If I were to try to use this kind of evidence in court, the judge would say, “You can’t impeach Mr. Thurlow’s credibility with someone else’s statement. And you can’t use someone else’s statement to prove a different version of events than Mr. Thurlow has testified to unless you can show us ? at a minimum ? who made that statement, and what basis he had for making it. Objection sustained!”
The reason we don’t know any of those things is because, in the first instance, Sen. Kerry hasn’t authorized the release of all the backup that went into his medal awards. Neither has Mr. Thurlow, yet ? although he, of course, is not running for President on the basis of his war record, and all he stands to gain from this whole controversy is the joy of being attacked by Kerry’s proxies. [Update: Thurlow’s now agreed to sign a Standard Form 180; Kerry still … hasn’t. (Hat-tip: Patterico.)]
To his credit, WaPo reporter Dobbs apparently confronted Thurlow with the language from his citation to get his reaction before running the story, and to his further credit, he included Thurlow’s reaction in the story:
"It's like a Hollywood presentation here, which wasn't the case," Thurlow said last night after being read the full text of his Bronze Star citation. "My personal feeling was always that I got the award for coming to the rescue of the boat that was mined. This casts doubt on anybody's awards. It is sickening and disgusting."
Thurlow said he would consider his award "fraudulent" if coming under enemy fire was the basis for it. "I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation.
Note that well: Thurlow’s initial reaction wasn’t to defend himself or his medal. Rather, it was quick agreement that if his own Bronze Star was indeed premised on the notion that he’d been under enemy small arms fire, then he didn’t deserve the medal, because that didn’t happen.
Thurlow’s lengthier and more detailed reaction, posted today in a statement on the SwiftVets website, is entirely consistent with what he’s quoted by Dobbs as having said when this “apparent conflict” was first sprung on him:
I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.
To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates ? there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.
I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.
It was not until I had left the Navy ? approximately three months after I left the service ? that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.
I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.
After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later ? under no hail of enemy gunfire ? to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.
Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident ? the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three ? a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.
And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.
These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?
But the reaction from Kerry’s defenders ? as if the WaPo article is some incredible “Gotcha, you bastards!” ? is badly overblown. For example, former-CalPundit, now-Washington Monthly-pundit Kevin Drum added this update to a post on the SwiftVets last night after the WaPo story went online:
Finally, some documentary evidence! Unfortunately for the Swifties, it's evidence that one of them is lying.
I’m frankly disappointed in Mr. Drum, because that’s not what the WaPo story shows. Evidence that someone else ? we know not whom, and we know not with what basis, first-hand or otherwise ? has a different version of events does not show that Thurlow is lying. And given that we know nothing that would help us evaluate the credibility of the citation-writer or the manner in which he came to believe what’s in the citation, at this point the citation isn’t even very strong evidence that Thurlow’s wrong. In fact, it’s absolutely no stronger than what’s in Kerry’s own citation; it adds essentially nothing to the mix, except more questions.
Mr. Drum’s post was also, I thought, extremely uninformed (and I’ll give him that benefit of the doubt, rather than assuming he was being disingenuous) when he asserted that this whole affair is just a swearing match. Yes, it’s in part a swearing match. But gee, Kevin, the Thurlow citation was hardly the first piece of “documentary evidence” to show up here. The SwiftVets’ charges are in large part based on documentary evidence like the after-action reports that don’t show any bullet holes in any of the five Swift Boats that Sen. Kerry and his supporters claim were under heavy small arms fire from both banks. Maybe those after-action reports are trustworthy, or maybe they include some mistakes ? just because they’re written doesn’t mean they’re gospel. But one thing they aren’t is partisan. And another thing they aren’t, at this point, is complete ? because Sen. Kerry insists on keeping it that way, at least for now.
WaPo’s late to the party too ? later than I am, and later than both hemispheres of the blogosphere and the radio and TV talk shows. I’m tempted to kvetch about just how late they are, and how unfair and biased it is that their first substantive treatment or effort at investigative reporting is spun to benefit the Kerry camp. But, eh … who’s surprised by that? What will genuinely disappoint me will be if WaPo and the mainstream media stop here ? with what’s likely a second-hand (or worse) account by an unidentified citation writer for a medal winner other than Sen. Kerry. That would be like limiting their Watergate coverage to a summary of the police report from the break-in. And America deserves better of its mainstream media than that, or than what WaPo has served up in its first foray into this controversy.
Update (Thu Aug 19, 2004): The SwiftVets have also published a related statement by Van Odell regarding Mr. Thurlow, whose own statement didn’t include any of the context that might have shown why his own Bronze Star was merited, enemy small arms fire or not (italics in original):
Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Van Odell
A courageous, soft spoken man of the Midwest, Larry Thurlow has a heart bigger than the great plains and a commitment to truth and honesty that is boundless. He is under attack, because John Kerry is feeling the heat of truth at the hands of this honest man and others like him.
The Kerry Campaign is attacking the truthfulness of this man and the Bronze Star he so richly deserves for his actions on March 13, 1969. I was there. I saw what happened.
The mine?s detonation lifted PCF-3 completely out of the water just yards ahead of me. All boats commenced suppression fire in case enemy small arms fire ensued. None did.
All boats came to the aid of PCF-3, except one: John Kerry?s boat. Kerry fled.
Larry Thurlow piloted his boat straight toward the mine-damaged PCF-3 from which thick, black smoke billowed. He jumped aboard and personally led damage control operations that saved the boat and rescue operations that saved the lives of badly wounded men. Larry?s leadership was in the highest traditions of the naval service. His leadership allowed the other men and boats of the mission to exit the river safely. This "single act of meritorious service" ? the chief requirement of the Bronze Star ? should be honored, not ridiculed, by the Kerry campaign and its allies in the mainstream media.
To reiterate, only one enemy weapon was deployed that day ? the command-detonated submerged mine that disabled PCF-3. Larry Thurlow's citation contained references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire," because that was the language chosen by John Kerry who penned the "spot report" on the action that day. There was no "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" received that day. John Kerry?s report was fiction ? a hoax on the entire chain of command. Larry Thurlow's heroism and meritorious service, however, is real.
To me Larry is one of the heroes of our country. He is a man who served his country when called and who returned home to be a productive citizen. Larry and men like him are the strong backbone of our society. I am proud to have served with him.
And in another statement, SwiftVet Jack Chenoweth takes strong issue with WaPo reporter Dobbs’ phrasing when he wrote that “Two other Swift boat skippers who were direct participants in the March 13, 1969, mine explosion on the Bay Hap, Jack Chenoweth and Richard Pees, have said they do not remember coming under ‘enemy fire.’” Mr. Chenoweth writes,
Mr. Dobbs is entitled to take whatever position he wants on the issue of who is telling the truth, but it is not right for him to mischaracterize my remarks so that it looks like I didn't "remember" whether there was enemy fire. I remember vividly. There was no enemy fire.
This reminds me of my habitual response as a trial lawyer, whenever a witness answers a question with “I don’t recall.” Unless I’m asleep, I immediately shoot back with, “Are you saying you have no recollection one way or the other, or are you saying that you have a clear, present recollection to the effect that [such and such] definitely did not happen?” Mr. Chenoweth understandably wants the record to be clear that in speaking with reporter Dobbs, Mr. Chenoweth was saying the latter.