Thank you thank you!!! I couldn’t agree more. I see the gear card given and then taken away for basically the same type of lifters all the time! No consistency. It’s about 2 or 3 guys on here who do this. Complete BS!
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You coulda gained 13kg naturally off proper eating and training. Your bone density and height have nothing to do with it. You’re barely an adult who hopped on AAS to reach average non-lifter bodyweight.
And you’re right. I’ve never used. I’m 32 and it took me about a year naturally during grad school to get the same results as you because I started around 60-some kg when I started lifting more seriously at 26/27. I weighed that much because I didn’t even lift.
From the sounds of it, you didn’t even spend time training without AAS. But if you think your training is so good, post your lifting numbers
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you lucky bastard 
It does though, a 5’3 guy with 10% BF, 200lbs and 6 inch wrists would probably place in Mr Olympia. a 6’5 guy with those stats will look average. This doesn’t apply to OP, he’s about 5kg heavier than I am, but a good 5 inches taller too… after three cycles. I’m not bashing the guy, but if I ran one legitimate cycle with 500mg test, or test/dbol and bulked I hypothesise I’d easily break 80kg… but I don’t really want to, I have no incentive to do so. I’ll stick to microdosages for now (a small amount of nandrolone allows me to live in significantly less pain regrading day to day life… I’ll take that over pain medication), perhaps I’ll be liable to change my mind in the future (edit, bone density is unrelated… wrist/ankle circumference/size of one’s frame is of importance though)
This guy doesn’t need steroids… let alone TREN. If he decides to use… fine… but I can’t understand why it has to be tren… why is everyone using tren? It’s the nastiest injectable AAS out there… Would you use Tren?
Aren’t you very tall? If so, congratulations, you’ve made some fantastic progress (gaining over 20kg). I think OP knows he doesn’t need steroids, but he’s well versed, educated (I mean, he’s seen up front what AAS abuse can do)… is there anything we can really do to stop him at this point?
The real question is… if he can’t gain weight adequately without AAS, how will he keep his gains when he comes off. Making gains on these drugs when dosed high (I’ve been told) can be almost effortless, but if you come off… haven’t figured how to gain naturally (it’s trial and error) then you’re liable to lose most of what you’ve gained.
Don’t create another thread… it’s annoying when people do this… just post the bloods on here
get lipids, renal panel, CBC and LFT’s checked… BNP if you can afford it… I’m curious to see what tren does to these… most don’t check lipids on this stuff, only check after they come off
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I’m 5’8 so I’m sure that’s shorter than 177cm.
I get your epic monologue about bone density, but I know for damn sure this guy didn’t get his bone density tested like that. I will agree with you about this guy needing a lifetime of TRT. He already committed to that on his first cycle because he was too lazy and impatient to put in meaningful time as a natty
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It’s not a monologue, don’t be facetious…
Even had he gotten his bone density taken… it’s not going to make the difference between 80kg and 100kg… it’s merely the amount of minerals present within you’re bones. Bone density is irrelevant, it’s the size of his frame that’s relevant… even then it’s no excuse to say “I’m small because I’ve got a small frame”… guys with small frames can top 80kg when they’re 5’10
Whether he will require lifelong TRT… unsure, using TREN certainly increases that risk factor 10 fold… as would nandrolone or any androgen+progestin combo
Are you going to use Tren when you hop on?
I have no problem with the guy going on given he’s very aware of the risks… I do however think using tren at 80kg/5’10 isn’t a good idea… such a powerful compound is actually an “ace card” if you will. You can grow a loooooot at 5’10 80kg without drugs, you can grow even more with a splash of drugs if you so choose… so why use the most powerful compound known to man when you can still (probably) incur significant gains with say 3-400mg test weekly?
How much do you weigh now? I saw you’re pic in the feb check in thread, I’d guess about 90kg, probably around 25% BF, so FFMI is pretty good if I’m guessing correctly (23)… well above the average Joe.
Sorry doctor, I didn’t realize a comparison of a 5’3 200lb or a 6’5 200 lb dude had anything to do with a guy claiming “low bone density” with no medical backing.
You right tho on everything else tho.
HELL YEAH
Thanks, I’m a lil under 90kg now. I’m trying to lean out down to 185ish and see how I look there. I want to get natty shredded for the dating apps. Or as a teammate put it, I don’t wanna be show ready, I wanna be ho ready.
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LOL this had me cracking up. Love it. 
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If that is all you’ve done as first cycle just prepare though because Tren is a completely different game, if you have never had much side effects or issues from AAS before then just brace yourself because with tren you will definetely a 100% feel every good as well as bad effect.
Just prepare in advance for possible sides: heavy breathing, fast heart rate, pounding heart, extreme sweating, terrible sleep, mood swings, emotional changes.
These are common so don’t freak out if that happens, It is much different than mild things such as test or dbol, which you feel awesome on, Tren is heavy and you will feel that, so better know ahead what you can expect to feel.
Is 300 enough? F*CK JEZUS yes it is, even half of that will give you better results than 500 test. or 50mg of dbol.
DO NOT do this, you will be unstable as hell, you will be like a girl on her period with mood swings every day due to the spikes and drops, and you might get into arguments with people, do it ED, ED is the way for ace, I was dumb before and found out the hard way.
Trust me pinning every day is less of a pain in the ass than becoming unstable and messing up your relationships.
Can you bulk up and lose fat at the same time, yes you can, eat around maintenance, slightly higher, and you will still drop fat, you would even gain muscle in a deficit (but not much so don’t do that)
Some people eat pizza and still lose fat on Tren, but don’t go try that they’re lucky.
Personally if I was you, 177 and 82KG, and wanted to bulk, I would just eat like a damn horse and try to pack on as much as I can, this way for sure you will maximize gains on this cycle and you probably won’t gain fat anyway.
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Out of curiosity when do you intend to hop on… and do you intend to compete? What are you’re current stats (lifting stats). Do you primarily focus on increasing squat, bench, deadlift or do you also focus on OHP, front squat/other lifts not required within competition? I hate overhead pressing and thus don’t do it at all due to the sheer level of pain it induces within me
Why would you want to you use Tren, neurologically it’s quite harsh. it depletes serotonin, dopamine etc… Some like Zeek and Singhbuilder manage it fine, the majority don’t seem to feel great. Whats the point of looking jacked when you feel like shit, can’t walk up a flight of stairs? (deleteriously effects cardiorespiratory function)
I’d like to compete at the National and World level as a natty before I make any changes. I also don’t want to take any chances with reproductive health, so maybe thinking way down the road. I’ll start with TRT first and go from there. I might not even touch anything else.
My squat is 445, bench is 292, and Deadlift like 445/447. Hitting some great rep PRs lately so my max will shoot up by next meet. My squat (425 in comp) and bench are drug tested state records for Classic Raw. Prolly won’t compete till 2021 because I’m enjoying the off season gainz, but I’m shooting for 500/315/500 and whatever else gets me to a 1317 total so I can qualify for Non-Tested Nationals or Drug Tested Worlds.
Overhead press recently jacked up my shoulder, but I wanna slowly bring it back so I can do Static Monsters again in October. But I’d love to bring that up. I do mostly SSB Squats in off season. That’s really been bringing everything else up. I also compete in conventional deadlift, but I’ve been building up my sumo lately.
Fantastic dude! I wish you the best of luck. Agreed with the reproductive health, if you want kids either freezing sperm or foregoing TRT entirely may be the best option (though inj FSH/HCG can get spermatogenesis to occur when when on TRT, but long term safety of such therapy is unknown).
These are good, I don’t know whether it’s a weak point but you’re DL is the same as you’re squat. Theoretically my 1RM for deadlift should be 418lbs (with straps hah), without straps I’ve pulled 405x1… with a mixed grip if that counts. With straps it’s 405x3… But you’d be pressed to see me being able to back squat 250… because I don’t do back squats anymore, just front squats (I find back squats irritate my shoulder).
Should probably invest in some chalk. But I don’t tend to go all out, it’s typically sets of 10-15 with deadlifts (very taxing on the CNS), every now and again I’ll see how heavy I can go (3rm). I use straps because my grip gives out with higher reps
I weigh about 74kg, so the deadlift is probably somewhat genetic. If you could compete in the non tested nationals as a natural athlete that’d be quite impressive… Though competing at the world level also very impressive.
Yeah, it seems like all that would add onto the cost of operations, so I’d rather hold off as long as I can, and maybe have kids before I get on anything.
I do all my training sets on straps for anything more than 1 rep. My comp max without straps is more than my strapped max. I don’t think it makes a huge difference for hook grippers.
Yeah I def think deadlift is a weak point though. Tryna get like my coach who is nearing 700 as a natty.
Interesting… do you use ammonia/sniffing salts? Do they help, I’ve never used them… are they dangerous (as in… do they impair motor coordination and make you more likely to drop the bar).
I’m tempted to try them
Yeah, I use them pretty frequently in meet prep.
I don’t need ammonia to be savage, but when I’m on ammonia I feel savage 
But I think in most cases, if you couldn’t lift the weight without ammonia, you prolly wouldn’t hit it with ammonia. Just like if you had shitty motor coordination without ammonia, you’ll still have it with ammonia.
Interesting. I know they irritate the mucosa within you’re nose and lungs, inducing an increase in respiratory rate. The result is an increase in heart rate and thus a net increase in sympathetic nervous system stimulation. With this sympathetic nervous system increase, theoretically maximal strength capacity would increase slightly, but with this fine motor skills would be impaired.
I think I’m overthinking this, I’ll try it at gym (when I’m better, currently riddled with the worst case of the flu I’ve ever had in my life)
Def overthinking it. Thanks for dropping knowledge, Doctor
Your monologue was something out of an anime:
I feel as if you’re responses are unjustified and somewhat out of proportion. I respond this way because it’s merely the way I think.
Regardless, I’ve tried to be nice but you’ve
- repeatedly called me a serial killer
- made numerous golum memes
- if I recall correctly about a year ago you went on a tirade accusing me of being a pedophile
- you consistently make fun of the way I structure my responses
- you’ve attacked my character numerous, made statements based upon my age and nothing more
I don’t believe I deserve such treatment. There are those who will like your posts attacking me here and/or back you because they dislike me being here on the sole basis of my age. I think that’s a profoundly immature way of looking at things… as to calling me “doctor” repeatedly… are you fucking kidding me… I’ve made it abundantly clear I’m not a doctor or an expert… yet one of you’re prime attacks is to say “you think you’re a doctor and/or expert”
I tend to type what I think… nothing more…
In response to this I’m muting you’re posts… Perhaps I’m in the wrong here, but I don’t perceive this to be the case. I’ve attempted to try get along with you, and I thought I was doing a reasonable job over the past few posts, but some people just don’t get along… and for whatever reason I believe you and I fit within the category of those who don’t get along well.
Perhaps you’re joking around and/or being funny. You forget that I’m autistic, and this isn’t a mere excuse, the way I write is the way I think…
I frequently don’t perceive these responses of yours to be jokes (if they are… then I still don’t like them)… I see it as insulting… you’ve been made aware of this and you’ve either forgotten or simply don’t care.
How smart characters be acting in anime but too bad you just sound like a psycho in real life
Also:
Spoken like a closet pedo. And I’ll be honest, I dropped that because you were 17 when you said that. But the fact that you’re a now an adult (barely tho) still defending that perspective is quite troubling.
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