Survivalist Gear

Off Topic
141

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.

142

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.

143

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.[/quote]

Aside from its use in light breaching work it comes down to handling. An axe or a hatchet is a terribly unwieldy, top heavy tool that wouldn’t be very good as an offensive weapon. By contrast, a tomahawk is very light and manoeuvrable weapon. It also serves many bushcraft functions like preparation of fire wood, hacking like a machete, chopping like a very light axe, splitting wood, hammering in nails, pegs or spikes etc and with a hatchet you can pretty easily fell a 10 inch diameter dry sapling, limb it and cut it down into logs/split them etc. So a tomahawk can do a lot useful stuff and is lighter than a hatchet or axe and often with a very short handle - usually with a hammer poll or a spike of some kind which is useful too. You can also choke up on the head and do fine work or skinning/scraping for tanning etc. It’s certainly an option I consider instead of an axe or hatchet. It just depends what I’m expecting to be doing.

144

Tomahawks are also very good at specific tasks. Because you can work faster and get a lot more strikes per minute it’s really good for light work like chopping down bamboo or preparing sticks into stakes etc. If you don’t need to fell trees and heavy woodwork then a tomahawk can be a better option.

145

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Aside from its use in light breaching work it comes down to handling. An axe or a hatchet is a terribly unwieldy, top heavy tool that wouldn’t be very good as an offensive weapon. By contrast, a tomahawk is very light and manoeuvrable weapon. It also serves many bushcraft functions like preparation of fire wood, hacking like a machete, chopping like a very light axe, splitting wood, hammering in nails, pegs or spikes etc and with a hatchet you can pretty easily fell a 10 inch diameter dry sapling, limb it and cut it down into logs/split them etc. So a tomahawk can do a lot useful stuff and is lighter than a hatchet or axe and often with a very short handle - usually with a hammer poll or a spike of some kind which is useful too. You can also choke up on the head and do fine work or skinning/scraping for tanning etc. It’s certainly an option I consider instead of an axe or hatchet. It just depends what I’m expecting to be doing.
[/quote]

Interesting. Given the choice of a machete, a tomahawk, or your Spetsnaz shovel (assuming equivalent weight for all three) which would be your choice for best all-around tool/weapon if need be if you could only have one?

EDIT: assuming also that you would have a smaller bushcraft knife as well.

146

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.[/quote]

Aside from its use in light breaching work it comes down to handling. An axe or a hatchet is a terribly unwieldy, top heavy tool that wouldn’t be very good as an offensive weapon. By contrast, a tomahawk is very light and manoeuvrable weapon. It also serves many bushcraft functions like preparation of fire wood, hacking like a machete, chopping like a very light axe, splitting wood, hammering in nails, pegs or spikes etc and with a hatchet you can pretty easily fell a 10 inch diameter dry sapling, limb it and cut it down into logs/split them etc. So a tomahawk can do a lot useful stuff and is lighter than a hatchet or axe and often with a very short handle - usually with a hammer poll or a spike of some kind which is useful too. You can also choke up on the head and do fine work or skinning/scraping for tanning etc. It’s certainly an option I consider instead of an axe or hatchet. It just depends what I’m expecting to be doing.
[/quote]

I guess I don’t really evaluate most survival tools in terms of their value as breaching tools or offensive weapons. Tomahawk strikes me as something that is designed to be a weapon but can be adapted as a tool.
I’m not at all against offensive weaponry in principle, it’s just that I find that I spend far more time doing chores than I do breaching/fighting. I do see definite value in having a decent hammer for camp chores.

I’ll have to take your word for the utility of a hawk for bushcraft. I see the primary value of any axe as it’s ability to process wood. As far as hacking like a machete, I would have thought the short cutting surface on a hawk would make this a fairly inefficient and frustrating enterprise.

All in all, as a combination fighter/utility tool, I would take a decent sized kukri over an equivalent tomahawk. The longer edge is more useful for slicing, hacking and chopping. The more even weight distribution allows for quick recovery and direction changes if pressed into fighting. It can be used for cutting (both push and pull) and thrusting and can cause significant trauma to both hard and soft targets with minimal risk of becoming lodged in the target.

However, kukris look inherently weapon-y and would perhaps tend to attract more unwanted attention in many places than one of the more innocuous looking hawks.

147

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Tomahawks are also very good at specific tasks. Because you can work faster and get a lot more strikes per minute it’s really good for light work like chopping down bamboo or preparing sticks into stakes etc. If you don’t need to fell trees and heavy woodwork then a tomahawk can be a better option.[/quote]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say you can get “a lot” more strikes per minute with a tomahawk. Maybe a lot more strikes a day. I like the feel of a hand axe, the weight is not an issue. I can and have pretty much used a hand axe all day long. I would use my fixed blade knife for smaller task like preparing stakes, arrows, spears, and etc. You can use a hand axe to perform any task just as well as a tomahawk.

While carrying a tomahawk and you encounter a military unit, they would be very likely to take the tomahawk from you and possibly treat you like a hostile person. With a hand axe you have the “I am just trying survive” excuse.

148

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.[/quote]

Aside from its use in light breaching work it comes down to handling. An axe or a hatchet is a terribly unwieldy, top heavy tool that wouldn’t be very good as an offensive weapon. By contrast, a tomahawk is very light and manoeuvrable weapon. It also serves many bushcraft functions like preparation of fire wood, hacking like a machete, chopping like a very light axe, splitting wood, hammering in nails, pegs or spikes etc and with a hatchet you can pretty easily fell a 10 inch diameter dry sapling, limb it and cut it down into logs/split them etc. So a tomahawk can do a lot useful stuff and is lighter than a hatchet or axe and often with a very short handle - usually with a hammer poll or a spike of some kind which is useful too. You can also choke up on the head and do fine work or skinning/scraping for tanning etc. It’s certainly an option I consider instead of an axe or hatchet. It just depends what I’m expecting to be doing.
[/quote]

I guess I don’t really evaluate most survival tools in terms of their value as breaching tools or offensive weapons. Tomahawk strikes me as something that is designed to be a weapon but can be adapted as a tool.
I’m not at all against offensive weaponry in principle, it’s just that I find that I spend far more time doing chores than I do breaching/fighting. I do see definite value in having a decent hammer for camp chores.

I’ll have to take your word for the utility of a hawk for bushcraft. I see the primary value of any axe as it’s ability to process wood. As far as hacking like a machete, I would have thought the short cutting surface on a hawk would make this a fairly inefficient and frustrating enterprise.

All in all, as a combination fighter/utility tool, I would take a decent sized kukri over an equivalent tomahawk. The longer edge is more useful for slicing, hacking and chopping. The more even weight distribution allows for quick recovery and direction changes if pressed into fighting. It can be used for cutting (both push and pull) and thrusting and can cause significant trauma to both hard and soft targets with minimal risk of becoming lodged in the target.

However, kukris look inherently weapon-y and would perhaps tend to attract more unwanted attention in many places than one of the more innocuous looking hawks.[/quote]

I agree. I have a small crow bar in my bug out/survival bag.

149

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.[/quote]

Exacty, the tomahawk is a tacticool ninja item. I don’t think anyone would suggest to another person that they should carry a tomahawk over a hand axe in a survival or bushcraft situation.

150

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Aside from its use in light breaching work it comes down to handling. An axe or a hatchet is a terribly unwieldy, top heavy tool that wouldn’t be very good as an offensive weapon. By contrast, a tomahawk is very light and manoeuvrable weapon. It also serves many bushcraft functions like preparation of fire wood, hacking like a machete, chopping like a very light axe, splitting wood, hammering in nails, pegs or spikes etc and with a hatchet you can pretty easily fell a 10 inch diameter dry sapling, limb it and cut it down into logs/split them etc. So a tomahawk can do a lot useful stuff and is lighter than a hatchet or axe and often with a very short handle - usually with a hammer poll or a spike of some kind which is useful too. You can also choke up on the head and do fine work or skinning/scraping for tanning etc. It’s certainly an option I consider instead of an axe or hatchet. It just depends what I’m expecting to be doing.
[/quote]

Interesting. Given the choice of a machete, a tomahawk, or your Spetsnaz shovel (assuming equivalent weight for all three) which would be your choice for best all-around tool/weapon if need be if you could only have one?

EDIT: assuming also that you would have a smaller bushcraft knife as well.[/quote]

That’s hard to answer because I generally consider what I’m going to be doing then choose the tool according to need. Some terrain you can’t do without a machete and the shovel is a little awkward for a lot of heavy duty hacking through undergrowth. So thick scrub? Machete. Beach? Shovel. Usually warm enough to only need a small fire. Grasslands/plains/uplands - depends on the weather; how much firewood I’ll need, how much construction I’ll be doing etc. I like to pack light and generally don’t go off on long distance treks. I prefer to do things more comfortably when possible as I mentioned above. Although I’ve certainly got things to help me if things should take a turn for the worst. But what I’m saying is I’m generally “camping” on a holiday as opposed to being on a military operation or a survival situation so people who do that sort of stuff for a living would know more about the intricacies of survival skills.

151

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Tomahawks are also very good at specific tasks. Because you can work faster and get a lot more strikes per minute it’s really good for light work like chopping down bamboo or preparing sticks into stakes etc. If you don’t need to fell trees and heavy woodwork then a tomahawk can be a better option.[/quote]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say you can get “a lot” more strikes per minute with a tomahawk. Maybe a lot more strikes a day. I like the feel of a hand axe, the weight is not an issue. I can and have pretty much used a hand axe all day long. I would use my fixed blade knife for smaller task like preparing stakes, arrows, spears, and etc. You can use a hand axe to perform any task just as well as a tomahawk.

While carrying a tomahawk and you encounter a military unit, they would be very likely to take the tomahawk from you and possibly treat you like a hostile person. With a hand axe you have the “I am just trying survive” excuse.

Getting captured may be a death sentence anyway. You may have firearms too. But yes, nothing beats a good axe for felling and limbing and chopping and splitting. But sometimes you don’t need to fell trees and maybe you just want to hack down some kindling and maybe make a fly rod from a willow branch and hammer in some stakes, set a game or fish trap etc. You can’t always carry an axe or a hatchet. At least, if you don’t live too far North that is.

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^^^ I just think you are letting the cool factor of the tomahawk influence your thoughts on it. It is very easy to do. It is a way cool item. I think they are cool as shit, for me they are more for decoration, maybe ceremonial? I don’t know?

I do know if there was a tomahawk and a hand axe laying on the ground and I could only take one, I would take the hand axe 99/100 times. I would take the tomahawk if I was going to be posing for a picture or something.

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[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.[/quote]

Exacty, the tomahawk is a tacticool ninja item. I don’t think anyone would suggest to another person that they should carry a tomahawk over a hand axe in a survival or bushcraft situation. [/quote]

Bushcraft originated with the bushmen of the Southern Hemisphere; specifically, South African Boers, Australian bushmen. In subtropical climate there’s often no need for carrying a hatchet or an axe.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Anyone into tomahawks? They’re really nice, unique and versatile tools. There are many traditional designs but they generally fall into presentation/pipe tomahawks and the functional tools traded to the Indians by the British and French. The early British style was modelled after the British Navy Boarding Axe of the 17th Century with a shortened handle. A French company began to use a weeping heart shaped hole in the head and some of the French designs had a spike on the poll instead of a flat poll for hammering. The designs were copied and reprofiled by blacksmiths in the frontiers or sometimes by the owner themselves. Some of the designs in the 18th Century took on the look of a miniature Danish battle axe with the slim line of the head near the base to reduce weight that then fans out to a blade of four inches or so. Tomahawks have a lighter head than hatchets and it’s a more streamlined and efficient blade profile. The Indians used tomahawks for all the same bushcraft purposes that we do and it was a primary weapon that saw heavy use in close quarters combat.

Obviously I have a preference for the really high end, hand forged and well tempered blades of top end makers like Gransfors Bruks and there are many professional knife makers who do quality work. But for everyday camp stuff you can get by with a cheap Cold Steel tomahawk for around $22. It needs some work straight from the factory however. Unlike a hand forged and well tempered Gransfors Bruks’ axe heads which come razor sharp straight from the workshop. So I made a little project out of customising my tomahawk.

The steel is high carbon and well tempered. Nice and strong with good edge retention. The head is fixed with a set screw which I removed because it’s not the best method to attach the head to the handle. So I took the head off and set it aside. Then sawed about three inches off the handle to shorten it a bit. I sanded the handle down to get the clear lacquer off and get a nice clean surface. Then I gave it three coats of walnut oil that gives it a nice stain that brings out the grain in the wood nicely.

The head was put back on but without the set screw. The strongest attachment is based upon friction and you just push the head down till it can’t go any further. Using the axe will keep the head forced down tight. Some people like to bind the head for additional security but I don’t think it’s necessary. If you do decide to bind as well, it’s much better to use fresh/wet grissle that will tighten as it dries. Nothing beats animal grissle for any kind of tight binding like this. Primitive man used flint shards tied to a piece of wood and later bronze then iron. Today, we have superior heat treated high carbon steel and other high end steels and alloys.

Attached is a picture of a tomahawk(not mine) that has more of the Nordic battle axe shaped head. Anyone got a nice tomahawk?[/quote]

There are a lot of guys making nice custom tactical and traditional tomahawks. You already touched on the difference between a hachet and a tomahawk. A tomahawk is made lighter and faster and is primarily a weapon that can be used as a tool. A hachet is a tool that can be used as a weapon. Until you get to the modern tactical Hawks. I’ll put up some picture of my favorites shortly.[/quote]

I like the tomahawk, I think they are cool. But, in a survival situation I would still go with a hand axe. It is a tool that can be used as a weapon, so it could get you through certain situations where the tomahawk might be confiscated or you could be placed in custody without any charges being filed against you.[/quote]

I agree. Tacticool ninja factor aside, I have a hard time seeing the benefit of a tomahawk over a hand axe.[/quote]

Exacty, the tomahawk is a tacticool ninja item. I don’t think anyone would suggest to another person that they should carry a tomahawk over a hand axe in a survival or bushcraft situation. [/quote]

Bushcraft originated with the bushmen of the Southern Hemisphere; specifically, South African Boers, Australian bushmen. In subtropical climate there’s often no need for carrying a hatchet or an axe. [/quote]

I agree that there are areas where a hand axe is not needed. In my opinion in those locations a tomahawk would not be needed as well. Or, I should say that there are better tools to have.

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^^ Yes there often are better options but I still think a tomahawk has a place in bushcraft because of its light weight and versatility. Of course it can’t actually replace an axe as you say but it can do light work of different sorts that may suit your needs depending upon the situation. Of course it’s not too difficult to actually land some small game with a tomahawk. Although a boomerang is superior as it comes in from an angle they’re not expecting.

Aboriginal bushmen would throw a heavy boomerang into a flock of birds and when they all take off one of them is often hit and stunned for long enough to be captured if not killed. Although, again there are usually better options for hunting small game than a boomerang or tomahawk it still adds to its versatility.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yea for me! Just arrived today thanks to this thread.[/quote]

Nice! The Spyderco Bushcraft is a great knife. I hope you like it. You may be familiar with high carbon/non-stainless steels but if not, don’t forget to keep a layer of oil on the blade because 01 Tool Steel rusts like a bitch if you’re not careful. And if you haven’t sharpened a flat grind or scandi grind blade before then read how or watch a youtube demonstration. It’s very easy to sharpen when you know how. Basically you need to put the entire bevel flat on your grinding surface. And don’t overdo it and go over the current bevel, don’t change the angle of course. And you shouldn’t need to sharpen it at all for a while. They come razor sharp from the factory and even after some heavy work you can keep it sharp for a long time just by stropping it. A lot of people sharpen unnecessarily but it’s best to minimise how much you sharpen it. Even after hours of cutting and slicing and chopping at the most it only ever needs a couple of minutes on the finest stone just to straighten the edge.

Sorry to bore you if you already know this stuff but I’d hate to see a knife like that mistreated. If you’re not familiar with sharpening flat or scandi grinds you should really get a couple of cheap knives with scandi grinds to practice on. Mora of Sweden make excellent knives with scandi grinds and they start around $10 or so. I tend to use a Mora for a lot of everyday stuff.

And that looks like a Fairbairne-Sykes fighting dagger! Or at least it’s modelled after the style. One word of advice about stilettos like that: the tips have been known to break easily. They’re really a hell of penetration weapon(they can go through a steel army helmet with ease. But a sideways twist and the tip of the blade can just snap off. There was a US company that made knives very much like these for the early American Special Operations units in WWII that went on to become many of the SF units around today. I don’t think anyone is still issued knives like this. I doubt it.

Western militaries tend to ignore edged and improvised weapons training which I think is a big mistake. I mentioned already that I think edged weapons can be very effective in close quarters combat and melees. I was looking on youtube and there are a lot of videos of the Russian Spetznas training soldiers how to use the entrenching shovel as a weapon. They really take it seriously with considerable time spent training. Search youtube for “fighting shovel” or “combat shovel” if you’re interested. Those Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel is only around $20 and you can buy replacement handles and a sheath that straps to your pack. Great tool.

Attached photo is my most recently purchased bushcraft knife: the Genesis made by custom US maker L T Wright. Very nice quality. It’s D2 Tool steel which is an unusual choice. D2 stays sharp a bit longer(edge retention) and takes a little longer to sharpen. The handles are really nice bead blasted micarta.

Editedz

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve had this for awhile. Carry it in my pickup mainly as a breaching tool if I encounter someone trapped in their vehicle (which I actually have).[/quote]
Okay this looks like the all around tool/weapon.

Where did you get this Push?