[quote]T-Bone2 wrote:
Read the following two articles:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460833
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=462147[/quote]
No disrespect to JB or you, T-Bone2, but I believe the article you meant to reference is by David Barr. It’s called “The Naked Truth: The Real Scoop on Post-Workout Recovery Drinks” (the official review of Surge).
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=305nak2
May this be the answer to your questions and your prayers!
-DV
I make my own out of hyrolysed whey, malto,glucose and little bcaa powder. It’s great and works as well as Surge pwo.
However I would use Surge if it wasn’t for the price (51USD + P+P in Aus). Yeah, my stuff (‘Scrooge!’) works fine but it tastes like sheeeeit (even with flavoring) and after I have finished making up a 5lb tub of it, my kitchen looks like the last scene from ‘Scarface’ - blood and all.
Also I drink it durin my workout where I find the flavour becomes a real factor, also I don’t have that second wind that you get with Surge. Possibly something to do with there being less phenylalanine?
[quote]Drewsky wrote:
also I don’t have that second wind that you get with Surge. Possibly something to do with there being less phenylalanine?[/quote]
Come on man, you can’t just make a statement like that and then end your post! You gotta explain that one! lol
Cheers
…as in; regular use of Surge could possibly lead to increased or optimised levels of neurotransmitter biosynthesis and maybe even some limited inhibition of enkephalin metabolism.
In the ‘long’ term!
Does kinda sound like I was saying it worked in a few mins, eh? My physiology and reaction kinetics knowledge is shaky but not that shaky…
Also I forgot to mention I sometimes use hydrolysed casein as well, it has an almost mirror image peptide distribution profile to hyd. whey. I use it sparingly as it tastes like arse, even worse than hyd. whey. Whilst I have your attention, whats your thouhgts on this product Dave?
Ha, Dave, you’ve got me running off to find/review papers in the hope I haven’t just gone on one and made myself look like a right twat!
[quote]The_Incubator wrote:
Well for one thing fruit juice, which has lots of fructose, isn’t going to give you the big insulin spike that is the single most important reason for using Surge or any other PWO shake.
That said, I would be curious to know how real world results would differ between Surge and a DIY homade concoction of glucose, maltodextrin and whey. You would at least be getting the huge insulin spike, the right carbs and fast-digesting protein. I used such a mix for a while before I bought Surge and got great results, it was the best improvement I’ve ever seen from a single dietary change, but I haven’t done a double-blind test comparing it to Surge.
Nick[/quote]
never tried Surge, but it sounds pretty good.
that said, grape juice has a GI of 100 if im not mistaken
[quote]The_Incubator wrote:
getbig wrote:
The_Incubator wrote:
The GI is not as high as glucose.
Fructose is not used to replenish muscle glycogen stores.
If you want a cheap PWO spike:
Just. Buy. Glucose.
It’s like $1/pound and easily available. You can also get maltodextrin for about $1.50/pound.
Nick
So, if I am tight w/ money and workout 5 days a week, can I take Surge for 3 days (Mon,Tue,Wed) and Glucose for 2 days a week. Also, what does maltodextrin do?
Thanks!
Sure you CAN… I mean, do whatever you can afford.
Maltodextrin is a glucose polymer, meaning one maltodextrin molecule is composed of a bunch of glucose. It has a higher GI than glucose and is absorbed faster.
Glucose and maltodextrin are the ingredients responsible for Surge’s insulin-spiking effect.
No secrets here, this is all covered in Berardi’s post-workout nutrition articles. They basically tell you all you need to know to make Surge. The catch is that you’re not going to find whey hydrolysate on the open market, you’re not going to have the flavor, and if you want BCAAs the cost is high enough that you might as well buy Surge.
Nick[/quote]
Nick: actually, whey hydro can be found rather easily on the open market, and if you know where to look BCAA’s are very affordable as well.
[quote]The_Incubator wrote:
I don’t know how many times it needs to be pointed out that fruit/fruit juice is not ideal PWO. And the answer will be the same no matter how many times the question is asked.
The GI is not as high as glucose.
Fructose is not used to replenish muscle glycogen stores.
[/quote]
I understand that fructose is not used to replenish muscle glycogen directly, but isn’t it eventually broken down in the GI tract (like any other sugar), turned into glucose, and then stored in the body (wherever that may be) as glycogen? Or does the liver actually store fructose as intact fructose? This is something I’ve always wondered.
I just got my 1st Surge container today. It doesn’t fill me up at all, and I’m still hungry. But it tastes so good that I could possibly drink a whole 2lb container in one day(not that I would).
Now, let’s see how my recovery is after a tough workout. 1 leg squats for 10x3 usually leave me sore for 5 days.
As JB has pointed out in a few articles there is a difference between the GI of a food and the insulin response that occurs as result of it. The two are not directly correlated and can in fact be extremely different. That being said, I’m personally not sure what the insulin response is to grape juice because I don’t know how much money you can really save by making your own “homebrew” vs. Surge. In the states it’s 23 bucks for 10 servings, free shipping with a $150 order. That’s $2.30 a serving for the math impaired LOL.
After you track down all the individual ingredients, buy them and pay to have them shipped and then consider the cost of your time to mix it up, are you really saving that much? For me, I just love the convinience factor as much as the engineered nutrition.
Lastly, hydrolyzed whey is apparently absorbed MUCH faster than any other type of whey, making it better for post-workout nutrition. It also tastes like butt, as someone else pointed out from their own home-brew experience, so the fact that Surge tastes good is another bonus. Most of this was covered in the JB Double-Tap interview, check it out if you haven’t already.
I know the thread was started to get opinions about the efficacy of Surge vs. homebrews but IMHO the convinience and taste weigh just as heavily in my decision as the results.
[quote]bikejames wrote:
Lastly, hydrolyzed whey is apparently absorbed MUCH faster than any other type of whey, .[/quote]
MUCH?
Depends on a number of factors, including level of hydrolization, but usually it does not amount to bugger all.
GREAT CEASAR’S GHOST!!!
I did my first workout with taking Surge afterwards, today. It’s been 8 hours since, and usually I would be crippled with absolute dead legs following such a workout. I am sore, but dramatically less sore than usual.
This stuff is the real deal. And oh yeh, the taste is so good, I could drink a containers worth every day.
Thank goodness FedEx delivered it right before I left for the gym!
I am ordering more, very soon.
Mr Barr?