My buddy trains Muay Thai and BJJ about three days a week for two to three hours a session. He asked my opinion on supplements and I pointed him to Biotest. He’s primarily interested in being able to stay fresher throughout the extended sessions, and recovery. It seems like workout fuel is the obvious choice but I wanted to see if you guys had any in-the-trenches suggestions.
Try to get everything you need from your diet first. (Obviously)
I hate the whole assholish vegan arrogance but they’re dead on about raw food. Carrot juice has a SHITLOAD of potassium for example way more than just the “eat banana” rationale.
So for me PERSONALLY, I’ve felt a ton better since I started eating more ‘raw’ foods. Except for meat (duh) which I eat like I’m attempting to destroy the cow/chicken/fish population of the earth single-handedly. Just dialing in my diet has helped me way more than any supplement I’ve ever used. But…
Important things:
-
Protein. Obviously get a lot of that through the day.
-
Prior to training he has to make sure he gets some carbs and is well hydrated BEFORE even getting to practice.
-
Replenish your glycogen after practice. ie, carbs. But good ones. Like in Biotest products
Supps I like:
*Preworkout
Caffeine (last resort if you’ve had a long day)
Finibar (box of 12, $22, 280cal, 41carb, 13protein)
Surge Workout Fuel (30 servings, 85cal, carbs21g)
Protein Shake (50g)
*Peri-Workout
Water, Gatorade
*Post workout
Surge Recovery (16 servings, Protein25g, Carbs46g, 340 cal)
Hour Later: Protein Shake (50g) + Carbs
Other Supps, but if you don’t have your diet dialed in these really won’t mean fuck all in the larger scheme of things:
Greens + (veggies)
Curcumin (is like the fountain of youth or some shit, wikipedia it)
Alpha GPC (I want to try the liquid one)
Superfood (even better than greens +)
Alpha Male (increase your recovery)
FA3 (obvious)
Flameout (obvious)
Imo other than the last two if you’re going to even use this many freaking supp’s you should cycle them don’t use the same shit all the time. Not necessarily because of anything physical but because of the psychological dependency that you can develop from thinking you NEED the supps to perform.
Again if you don’t have your diet dialed in it’s kind of a waste considering that this supplements will cost you out the ASS.
Depending how much you’re training it would break down to something like…
protein- ~$40 bucks, 5lbs/month
Surge Workout Fuel- $38, 1/month
Surge Recovery- 2/month, $66
Finibar- 4 boxes/ Month, $88Total: $232/Month
Other Supps listed above:
Additional: $135/Month
(Grand Total of $367/Month JUST on Supps)
Agree, the basics are obvious. Minerals and vitamins from a proper diet, hydration all the way. Besides, if endurance is your main concern:
*) Some stimulant (HOT-ROX, for example, since this is T-Nation)
*) L-carnitine (not kidding here, over extended periods it helps you mobilize fat as an energy transporter)
*) BCAA’s + Glutamine for recovery
If speed or power were the goal, this’d look a lot different, but for endurance, this should help.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Try to get everything you need from your diet first. (Obviously)
I hate the whole assholish vegan arrogance but they’re dead on about raw food. Carrot juice has a SHITLOAD of potassium for example way more than just the “eat banana” rationale.
So for me PERSONALLY, I’ve felt a ton better since I started eating more ‘raw’ foods. Except for meat (duh) which I eat like I’m attempting to destroy the cow/chicken/fish population of the earth single-handedly. Just dialing in my diet has helped me way more than any supplement I’ve ever used. But…
Important things:
-
Protein. Obviously get a lot of that through the day.
-
Prior to training he has to make sure he gets some carbs and is well hydrated BEFORE even getting to practice.
-
Replenish your glycogen after practice. ie, carbs. But good ones. Like in Biotest products
Supps I like:
*Preworkout
Caffeine (last resort if you’ve had a long day)
Finibar (box of 12, $22, 280cal, 41carb, 13protein)
Surge Workout Fuel (30 servings, 85cal, carbs21g)
Protein Shake (50g)
*Peri-Workout
Water, Gatorade
*Post workout
Surge Recovery (16 servings, Protein25g, Carbs46g, 340 cal)
Hour Later: Protein Shake (50g) + Carbs
Other Supps, but if you don’t have your diet dialed in these really won’t mean fuck all in the larger scheme of things:
Greens + (veggies)
Curcumin (is like the fountain of youth or some shit, wikipedia it)
Alpha GPC (I want to try the liquid one)
Superfood (even better than greens +)
Alpha Male (increase your recovery)
FA3 (obvious)
Flameout (obvious)
Imo other than the last two if you’re going to even use this many freaking supp’s you should cycle them don’t use the same shit all the time. Not necessarily because of anything physical but because of the psychological dependency that you can develop from thinking you NEED the supps to perform.
Again if you don’t have your diet dialed in it’s kind of a waste considering that this supplements will cost you out the ASS.
Depending how much you’re training it would break down to something like…
protein- ~$40 bucks, 5lbs/month
Surge Workout Fuel- $38, 1/month
Surge Recovery- 2/month, $66
Finibar- 4 boxes/ Month, $88Total: $232/Month
Other Supps listed above:
Additional: $135/Month
(Grand Total of $367/Month JUST on Supps)
[/quote]
Great post Xen.
[quote]Waitingforcoyote wrote:
My buddy trains Muay Thai and BJJ about three days a week for two to three hours a session. He asked my opinion on supplements and I pointed him to Biotest. He’s primarily interested in being able to stay fresher throughout the extended sessions, and recovery. It seems like workout fuel is the obvious choice but I wanted to see if you guys had any in-the-trenches suggestions.[/quote]
Fighter’s Food – google it.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Important things:
- Protein. Obviously get a lot of that through the day.
[/quote]
“Now a study published in BioMed Central’s open access journal Molecular Neurodegeneration tests the effects of several diets, head-to-head, for their effects on AD pathology in a mouse model of the disease. Although the researchers were focused on triggers for brain plaque formation, they also found that, unexpectedly, a high protein diet apparently led to a smaller brain.”
why dont you tell your friend to stick with it and his endurance will improve naturally…that’ll cost you 367 bucks. It did for me without having to spend that much cash. Supplements are used to get things you dont get from food. Eat better foods and get a protein shake, or at least 20g’s of protein (I dont have to explain why only 20g’s, the editors just put out an article on the subject) in you after every class.
The Gracies eat raw acai pulp before and after a fight. I’ve tried it a few times and liked the boost in energy, but it wasnt enough of a boost to justify the expense.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Important things:
- Protein. Obviously get a lot of that through the day.
“Now a study published in BioMed Central’s open access journal Molecular Neurodegeneration tests the effects of several diets, head-to-head, for their effects on AD pathology in a mouse model of the disease. Although the researchers were focused on triggers for brain plaque formation, they also found that, unexpectedly, a high protein diet apparently led to a smaller brain.”
[/quote]
You left out the low-carb aspect…AND…ignored the fact that the test MICE were altered to develop a severe form of Alzheimer’s. So what they are saying may be true for brains of people who already have early stages of Alzheimer’s…and/or are a certain age…but nowhere does that study prove in fact that the diet itself shrinks the brain of those NOT affected by Alzheimer’s. Nice try though.
AND…I don’t recall Xen referring to a LOW-CARB,high protein diet. You can still have a balanced diet with increased intake of protein…and besides,fighter’s need carbs(and protein!). It’s just a matter of when and what kind. No heavily training fighter is going to survive on a LOW CARB/high-protein diet. But you obviously already knew all of that.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Important things:
- Protein. Obviously get a lot of that through the day.
“Now a study published in BioMed Central’s open access journal Molecular Neurodegeneration tests the effects of several diets, head-to-head, for their effects on AD pathology in a mouse model of the disease. Although the researchers were focused on triggers for brain plaque formation, they also found that, unexpectedly, a high protein diet apparently led to a smaller brain.”
You left out the low-carb aspect…AND…ignored the fact that the test MICE were altered to develop a severe form of Alzheimer’s. So what they are saying may be true for brains of people who already have early stages of Alzheimer’s…and/or are a certain age…but nowhere does that study prove in fact that the diet itself shrinks the brain of those NOT affected by Alzheimer’s. Nice try though.
AND…I don’t recall Xen referring to a LOW-CARB,high protein diet. You can still have a balanced diet with increased intake of protein…and besides,fighter’s need carbs(and protein!). It’s just a matter of when and what kind. No heavily training fighter is going to survive on a LOW CARB/high-protein diet. But you obviously already knew all of that. [/quote]
How does anyone here know whether or not they have certain markers of Alzeimer’s? Can you answer that sans insults?
I would throw Beta Alanine into Xen’s plan and add protein to the periworkout and change the second post workout shake to a proper meal but other than that looks pretty damned good.
Well I’m pretty sure… no one’s injected me with AD or some other transgenic disease precursors…
sooooooooooooooo… I’m gonna enjoy this steak.
IMO, you are correct about excessive protein though (in a sense). I don’t necessarily think it’s going to shrink my brain or anything. Hell I don’t even think it’s going to stress your kidneys. But it’ll either a) be excreted or b) get stored as fat. I think the conclusion of that article is short-sighted to be honest. The title is hyperbolic.
If you get NO FAT in your diet and just high protein & low carbs well naturally you’re going to have brain function problems. You’re a level 4 Biotest customer, so you probably know the benefits of fish oil. Well that’s fat. Obviously we need healthy fats in our diet. There’s a dozen T-Nation articles noting this fact.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that HIGH protein is BAD for you, actually it probably signifies that a lack of healthy fats is bad. Hell the article doesn’t even tell us HOW HIGH the protein level was with the mice. For all we know they could have been feeding them something outrageous.
From a friend on another site regarding how much protein is actually necessary-
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Try to get everything you need from your diet first. (Obviously)
I hate the whole assholish vegan arrogance but they’re dead on about raw food. Carrot juice has a SHITLOAD of potassium for example way more than just the “eat banana” rationale.
So for me PERSONALLY, I’ve felt a ton better since I started eating more ‘raw’ foods. Except for meat (duh) which I eat like I’m attempting to destroy the cow/chicken/fish population of the earth single-handedly. Just dialing in my diet has helped me way more than any supplement I’ve ever used. But…
Important things:
-
Protein. Obviously get a lot of that through the day.
-
Prior to training he has to make sure he gets some carbs and is well hydrated BEFORE even getting to practice.
-
Replenish your glycogen after practice. ie, carbs. But good ones. Like in Biotest products
Supps I like:
*Preworkout
Caffeine (last resort if you’ve had a long day)
Finibar (box of 12, $22, 280cal, 41carb, 13protein)
Surge Workout Fuel (30 servings, 85cal, carbs21g)
Protein Shake (50g)
*Peri-Workout
Water, Gatorade
*Post workout
Surge Recovery (16 servings, Protein25g, Carbs46g, 340 cal)
Hour Later: Protein Shake (50g) + Carbs
Other Supps, but if you don’t have your diet dialed in these really won’t mean fuck all in the larger scheme of things:
Greens + (veggies)
Curcumin (is like the fountain of youth or some shit, wikipedia it)
Alpha GPC (I want to try the liquid one)
Superfood (even better than greens +)
Alpha Male (increase your recovery)
FA3 (obvious)
Flameout (obvious)
Imo other than the last two if you’re going to even use this many freaking supp’s you should cycle them don’t use the same shit all the time. Not necessarily because of anything physical but because of the psychological dependency that you can develop from thinking you NEED the supps to perform.
Again if you don’t have your diet dialed in it’s kind of a waste considering that this supplements will cost you out the ASS.
Depending how much you’re training it would break down to something like…
protein- ~$40 bucks, 5lbs/month
Surge Workout Fuel- $38, 1/month
Surge Recovery- 2/month, $66
Finibar- 4 boxes/ Month, $88Total: $232/Month
Other Supps listed above:
Additional: $135/Month
(Grand Total of $367/Month JUST on Supps)
[/quote]
this is all just in my opinion. I was excited when i was reading ur post because it started with eating raw foods. Be hydrated before workouts, plenty of complex long burning carbs couple hours before workout, something like gatorade wouldnt hurt during (depends on loss of hydration), and def. protein and carbs after. I disagree with you saying that you need protein and hour after because the window for optimal protein synthesis closes after roughly 45 min.
Spike Shotgun and a couple of big glasses of water
he said Surge immediately after (25g protein+carbs)and then another protein shake (50g protein+carbs) 1 hour later…
not to mention just because something is optimal doesn’t mean its the only time something can be done.
I know I always sweat buckets when I’m training. Normally I’m against the idea of multivitamins and figure I get what I need from food, but I imagine you’re losing tons of water soluble vitamins throughout the workout. What are you’re guys’ thoughts on a multivitamin? My solution has usually just to get all my post workout carbs from fresh fruit and fruit juice instead of supplements. Had me feeling a lot better than with supplements.
I have kind of a weird stomach though. I’d usually drink a quart of orange juice throughout a muay thai workout.
Maybe Im old skool…I dont take much. when I mega trained short of joe weider junk there wasnt much out there.
I also think that when you are cutting- allot or under severe calorie restriction, you might assume to make up the difference with supplements, I think particularly with krebs cycle your liver/kidneys would be working very hard to help you.
Omega threes when cutting are esential Vitaman D too.
I do a post work out shake that is 30 ish grams of whey, always with greens+ or the like
and something with some sugar/low carbs.
I take a TON of fih oil, vitamen D Curcumin 500 ( generic) some calcium/mag some zinc and even that is pushing it for me.
eat fruits.
eat greens
above all eat clean, your body works harder to process junk, and alcohol
KMC when is the ideal time to take your greens? And does it really help with nutrient absorption?
[quote]Beershoes wrote:
KMC when is the ideal time to take your greens? And does it really help with nutrient absorption? [/quote]
Yo kid how you doing??
here is what I can say about Nutrition its not much.
I like the greens stuff and yeah I think its a good thing, but you should eat your veggies
mr.beershoes.
I have a hard time with whey/casein adding fiber helps, adding greens/superfood is better
keeps the digestive track healthy, very regular so to speak.
Feel like I get a little energy boost from greens/superfood like drinking juice from a juicer
but not like caffeine
I take them with every shake,probably you could skip the post workout dose, if you are putting them in the shakes. If you get a decent brand you can take it just with water, with meals.
protein and fat a great combo except post workout.
fat slows down protein absorption use this is the only meal/shake etc that you should skip fish oil.
Fish oil or omegas are awesome except post work out
I already mentioned the protein synthesis slowdown.
fish oil helps with insulin regulation.
PWO a good jolt of insulin is a good thing for recover/growth what eva
that’s about as much as I know.
not much.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Beershoes wrote:
KMC when is the ideal time to take your greens? And does it really help with nutrient absorption?
Yo kid how you doing??
here is what I can say about Nutrition its not much.
I like the greens stuff and yeah I think its a good thing, but you should eat your veggies
mr.beershoes.
I have a hard time with whey/casein adding fiber helps, adding greens/superfood is better
keeps the digestive track healthy, very regular so to speak.
Feel like I get a little energy boost from greens/superfood like drinking juice from a juicer
but not like caffeine
I take them with every shake,probably you could skip the post workout dose, if you are putting them in the shakes. If you get a decent brand you can take it just with water, with meals.
protein and fat a great combo except post workout.
fat slows down protein absorption use this is the only meal/shake etc that you should skip fish oil.
Fish oil or omegas are awesome except post work out
I already mentioned the protein synthesis slowdown.
fish oil helps with insulin regulation.
PWO a good jolt of insulin is a good thing for recover/growth what eva
that’s about as much as I know.
not much.
[/quote]
Awesome! I’ll start taking my greens, and keep eating my veggies too! I’ll also make sure to take my fish oil with my casein at night!
I’ve been decent, my friends all bailed on Muay Thai, so I’m down to mostly lifting and occasionally some striking or ground work with a friend who used to wrestle. It’s a little disappointing, but one more semester of college and I’ll have time to join a real gym!
For me it was caffeine pre-training, protein shakes, and lots of EVOO and peanut butter to keep my calories up throughout the day without getting full. The amount of calories an ecto needs to take in just to maintain their weight training MMA is staggering.