The bare bones of a supplement program I design for a client include:
Fish Oil HIGH DOSE!
BCAA’s (high dose during workout)
Glutamine
The next supplements I would add are:
Whey Isolate/ and or Surge
ZMA
There are many other supplements I have people use from time to time but, I always remind them that no supplement can replace good food. Make sure your diet is in order and remember supplements are just that…“supplements”
Why ZMA out of curiosity?
Do u really notice any effects from glutamine ? a couple of my friends take it but they don’t see anything except some stomach cramps.
i know fish oil helped my hoints alot.
what about bcaas , how much do u recommend and how do u recommend taking them? also if i have no acces to bcaas what do u think about regular aminos?
[quote]shookers wrote:
Why ZMA out of curiosity?[/quote]
why not is the answer
it’s cheap, hard training individuals are deficient in those minerals (mainly zinc IIRC)
it makes for some fun dreams
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
shookers wrote:
Why ZMA out of curiosity?
why not is the answer
it’s cheap, hard training individuals are deficient in those minerals (mainly zinc IIRC)
it makes for some fun dreams [/quote]
Zinc and Magnesium are cheaper and more effective taken at different times of the day. So while I understand their supplementation, I don’t understand taking them as ZMA
[quote]shookers wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
shookers wrote:
Why ZMA out of curiosity?
why not is the answer
it’s cheap, hard training individuals are deficient in those minerals (mainly zinc IIRC)
it makes for some fun dreams
Zinc and Magnesium are cheaper and more effective taken at different times of the day. So while I understand their supplementation, I don’t understand taking them as ZMA[/quote]
Never heard of that. Where did you read this?
[quote]dyskee wrote:
do u really notice any effects from glutamine ? a couple of my friends take it but they don’t see anything except some stomach cramps.
i know fish oil helped my hoints alot.
what about bcaas , how much do u recommend and how do u recommend taking them? also if i have no acces to bcaas what do u think about regular aminos?[/quote]
In terms of glutamine YES!! Here is the reader’s digest version of the benefits for this great supplement:
A substrate for DNA synthesis
Major role in protein synthesis
Primary source of fuel for enterocytes (cells lining the inside of the small intestine).
Precursor for rapidly dividing immune cells, thus aiding in immune function
Regulation of acid-base balance in the kidney by producing ammonium
Alternative source of fuel for the brain and helps to block cortisol-induced protein catabolism
As a form of fixed nitogen by heterocysts, exchanged for photosynthate from undifferentiated cyanobacterial cells
Glutamine intake: Recent scientific research has demonstrated that consuming glutamine following exercise can accelerate muscle glycogen resynthesis and glutamine levels, which are critical in the prevention of overtraining, and the creation of an anabolic environment.
I recommend ingesting 0.33 g/kg of glutamine, so for a 90 kg man that would be 30 grams. If someone has a higher percentage bodyfat, I up the glutamine and reduce the carbs.
For BCAA’s the correct time to take them is DURING workout and the dose is MINIMUM of 20grams with better results coming from 40.
As for regular aminos, I would take them between meals but, I do not supplement them. I use BCAA’s and EAA’s and specific aminos (leucine, glycine, taurine to name a few)
Also, (since I forgot to add it Vit C 2-3grams 2x daily
[quote]shookers wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
shookers wrote:
Why ZMA out of curiosity?
why not is the answer
it’s cheap, hard training individuals are deficient in those minerals (mainly zinc IIRC)
it makes for some fun dreams
Zinc and Magnesium are cheaper and more effective taken at different times of the day. So while I understand their supplementation, I don’t understand taking them as ZMA[/quote]
Where did you get that information from? ZMA is a patented mineral formula containing 30mg of zinc and 450mg of magnesium along with 11mg of vitamin B6. It was originally developed by Balco Labs (yes, that Balco Labs, the one Barry Bonds made famous). In their studies they noticed that athletes often showed mineral deficiencies in zinc and magnesium.
Zinc and magnesium are two minerals that can be very important to muscle building. Zinc plays a major role in hormone regulation (testosterone) and magnesium helps oxygenate muscle tissue. Deficiencies in either can severely hamper your muscle building capabilities.
Multivitamins can contain identical amounts of these minerals but not cure the deficiency for athletes whereas the separate supplementation with ZMA products can. The reason for this is the theory of competing nutrients. Calcium is a known inhibitor of zinc and magnesium absorption (limiting their absorption by up to 70%). Therefore when calcium is present in the stomach, the body basically absorbs it and excretes the zinc and magnesium.
To get the benefits ZMA can offer, it is of great importance to take it when there is no calcium in the stomach (not with milk or whey protein). The best time is within an hour of your bedtime.
People supplementing with ZMA often report great side effects - they sleep better. The importance of quality sleep to building muscle should never be minimized. It is this time that the hormones come out in full force and the majority of muscle is built.
From The
Bodybuilding Supplement Guide
ZMA
Several studies have shown great results for ZMA. Testosterone increases of about 30% and strength increases 2.5 times greater than placebo groups in one study.
There is criticism of the studies that show ZMA effective. These criticisms usually center around the fact that the test subjects are athletes on high protein diets. Increased protein intake (and resulting increased calcium intake) along with high-intensity exercise are likely two major contributing factors to these noted deficiencies. Because if you are training for mass gain then you are (or should be) on a high-protein diet and exercising intensely, these criticisms seem a little absurd.
Other criticism attacks some of the studies’ credibility based on their financial backing.
ZMA will always be looked at suspiciously because of the way it was originally promoted. Balco Labs basically provided performance-enhancing drugs to top athletes in exchange for ZMA endorsements. Bonds, for instance, gave a lot of the credit for his dramatic physique transformation to ZMA. Obviously, this was not the case. ZMA certainly doesn’t have those kinds of capabilities.
For those trying to increase muscle mass and doing so through intense exercise and increased protein intake, ZMA may be worth a shot. Supplementing with ZMA will provide some benefits for those experiencing the deficiencies (but only those with defeciencies).
How do you know if you’re deficient?
Well, you can get tested. Or you can simply try the product and see if you notice any positive differences. It isn’t necessarily cheap but it isn’t outrageously expensive either (less then 50 cents a day).
Glutamine is in a “bare bones” supp stack?
Over Surge or a protein supp?
Over creatine?
No way…
Surge is great as is Protein powder but they are both supplements that one could get from food. Nutritionist Chad Nicholls has all his people EAT their post workout nutrition and he has a pretty good track record (Dennis James, Ronnie Coleman, numerous other top IFBB pros).
The creatine works well for people the first time they use it but, from my experience and in the years of helping others it really isn’t worth it past that. Creatine is hard for a lot of people to digest.
Glutamine improves digestive health (amongst countless other benefits) and you are only as well nourished and supplemented as what nutrients you absorb. Good gut health = proper nutrient absorption!
[quote]laroyal wrote:
In terms of glutamine YES!! Here is the reader’s digest version of the benefits for this great supplement:
[/quote]
What do you say in response to Dave Barr’s take on Glutamine?
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=461188
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459884
I ended up buying a bottle a little while ago before reading those articles and haven’t made a solid conclusion on it’s effectiveness yet. I just don’t know what to make of the complete opposites of viewpoint on glutamine.
I think I have read that Barr’s take on Glutamine is a little different than it used to be. I know he talks about it in more detail in his book The Anabolic Index. Something I definitly intend on getting.
[quote]laroyal wrote:
The bare bones of a supplement program I design for a client include:
Fish Oil HIGH DOSE!
BCAA’s (high dose during workout)
Glutamine
The next supplements I would add are:
Whey Isolate/ and or Surge
ZMA
There are many other supplements I have people use from time to time but, I always remind them that no supplement can replace good food. Make sure your diet is in order and remember supplements are just that…“supplements”
[/quote]
Good post, I consider vitamin c a staple as well. Helps manage cortisol.
I have all the respect in the world for Barr and think he has a lot of great ideas, I work with Dr. Serrano and am a Poliquin coach so my views reflect their teachings. One of the protocols for stalled mass gain with Charles is 80grams of glutamine/ day 5 days. It repairs the digestive lining and makes it possible for your body to absorb nutrients it needs. Dr. S is huge on Glutamine too, basically the same reasons and from personal experience and with clients I echo their beliefs.
All I ever read is glutamine is not that effective (and not that effective for me, maybe the dosage: 15 g daily), except during cutting (for muscle preservation). I also read in a medical journal (give me a few days to find it to site it) that only 33% of glutamine actually gets absorbed, so u waster 2/3 of your money. I mean its really good for fixing stomach ulsers, but not for putting on mass, from personal experience.
I would throw a good multivitamin in your basic stack
[quote]tg2hbk4488 wrote:
I would throw a good multivitamin in your basic stack[/quote]
and I would throw it out the window.
You can’t talk about only a small % being absorbed and wasting your money then suggest a multi LOL
Well whether you want a multivitamin,a direct vitamin supplement, or a product such as Superfood, I feel some sort of additional vitamin and mineral source helps with overall health, granted receiving them naturally through solid foods are better, but look at the diet today, even people who are gettin trained still often then not eat shitty
[quote]tg2hbk4488 wrote:
Well whether you want a multivitamin,a direct vitamin supplement, or a product such as Superfood, I feel some sort of additional vitamin and mineral source helps with overall health, granted receiving them naturally through solid foods are better, but look at the diet today, even people who are gettin trained still often then not eat shitty[/quote]
I agree.
I’d go with Superfood over a multi though :shrug:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
tg2hbk4488 wrote:
Well whether you want a multivitamin,a direct vitamin supplement, or a product such as Superfood, I feel some sort of additional vitamin and mineral source helps with overall health, granted receiving them naturally through solid foods are better, but look at the diet today, even people who are gettin trained still often then not eat shitty
I agree.
I’d go with Superfood over a multi though :shrug:[/quote]
x2 Superfood is great. I stand by my glutamine recomendation precisly for the fact that most people don’t get what they should out of food and that by maintaining/ improving digestive health you get more bang for your buck with unquestionably the most important supplement out there…FOOD!! I would really be curious where tg got the 33% statistic, I am not saying there isn’t a study out there but I have NEVER seen this figure and I do quite a bit of research!
thnx for the help