Are you being hyperbolic here?
Personally, if I were to do something similar I’d just max out the last set.
WRT to RPE, I don’t understand how you can do 3 sets of any compound exercise with a real RPE of 9 with the same weight unless you’re resting like 5 mins between sets. Even then, that’s not happening for deadlifts IME.
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I think @flappinit answered pretty well above. I am not saying this won’t work or don’t use it. I just find it odd.
To your question above if I could do 3 sets of 8,
I would add weight whether I felt it was RPE 7 or 10. The fact I hit the reps required would tell me next week I need to either do more reps or add more weight. That exactly how double progression works. I don’t need to tell myself how relatively hard it was, I would just hit the reps and move forward.
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I’ve never seen this program, but I’m gonna say it’s ok as long as there’s a progression model where you eventually get to RPE 11 or 12 and with a rep range like 6-10. Your RPE(s) are probably underestimated because, logically, there’s no fucking way you can rep out your 10RM 3 times lol.
The good thing, IMO, is that you can focus on technique and muscular activation( most call this MMC while the technical term is intramuscular coordination, which is also required for strength expression on complex movements) even if the RPE is underestimated, which is why you don’t change stuff like the exercises on such a program.
Nice yeah, I think the goal with Jeff’s program is that the first set the RPE should be 8, and try to maintain 8, he has a column for last set RPE, I am guessing even he thinks that as the sets progress RPE will go up and maybe even up to 10.
But basically, as he says for incline DB press, 3 sets of 8 reps with first set RPE 8, I am guessing it is even expected that the second and third set may be RPE 9/10.
Dumbbell progression is harder for sure, I guess the idea is to go from 8 to 12 reps maintaining RPE 8 on the first set and then moving up 5 lbs.
The thing is though, and this is more for barbell bench and OHP, if you do 3 x 6 today with 135 lbs with RPE 8/9/10, there is no way in hell you will get 3 x 6 with 140 lbs next time considering you cimpletely maxed out on your last set, I wonder why he didn’t describe a proper progress model for this. Any guesses/suggestions to improvise on barbell bench progress once the last set hits RPE 10?
From @dt79 , @flappinit your input will be appreciated too.
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Now, that makes perfect sense.
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That makes complete sense, first set at 8, second at 9 and all out on the last set. Hit all your reps and progress. That is the way big strong people have been doing it for 70+ years.
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I’m guessing that is his idea, I read through the program again and didnt see anything about it, but anything else wouldn’t make sense considering he has last set RPE column.
So I guess first set RPE should be the RPE 8 (or whatever he describes).
That being said, how would this work for progressing with barbell bench +5b lbs?
I think after you hit RPE 10 on any of the sets for barbell bench, linear progression goes straight down the gutter.
Like I said, I have never seen the program, nor have I even heard of the guy. If I were to guess, he probably expects that you’d be able to meet the goal if you’re gaining muscle and takes into account the fact that most people will probably underestimate their RPEs during the first workout.
My thought process would be like this:
Someone experienced will look at the RPE and start conservatively.
Someone new will be able to meet the expectations of his progression plan simply due stuff to technical adaptations alone.
Thanks for staying with me, I feel people here are way more experienced than me by far, can you give this section a quick read and give me an idea of what you think he expects? (This section describes progression scheme)
^ This is what he says for progression, I tried improvising by the first/last set RPE logic.
Here is a sample chest/tris day:
LSRPE is last set rpe as I was mentioning
I think @dt79 is correct with what he has said above. The program is assuming that as a beginner of you train suitably hard and eat enough you can add 5lbs a week to your bench. This would be achievable for a lot of lifters. And many programs are written this way with simple linear progression. Stick to the program and train hard and see how you go. If you get to a point after a few weeks where you miss a rep on the last set then just repeat that week until you hit all the reps. If you are recovering well and eating to support your training you should be fine.
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Isn’t his rationale similar to what I wrote in my last few posts lol? I think you should do EXACTLY what he tells you to because he obviously knows what he’s talking about and his program was designed in line with a specific thought process. I haven’t read the program so if you ask me to nitpick certain things, I wouldn’t because there’s a bigger picture involved in the entire plan.
The questions you should be asking from now should be stuff like how’s my form on whatever exercise with a video posted or can I at least eat whipped cream in the morning on a cheat day (LOL). Not about fucking with the program.
Man, I’m seriously glad you didn’t decide to go buy a Meadows program. The amount of overthinking you’d be doing would hit record levels even for this site.
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Thanks, yeah let me see. I’m on a slight caloric deficit because I have very high body fat (29%) so his recommendation is a 15% caloric deficit for 4-8 weeks so I can try to recomp and then switch over to maintenance then clean bulk.
But I am still aiming around 2080 calories (220g protein, 80g fat, 120g carbs)
Yeah I’ll follow it. I followed it exactly today, hoping to see some progress in this recomp the next 4-6 weeks. I also had pretty poor diet the last 7 years, which kind of clowned my body composition so there’s chance this recomp can work out (sitting at 29-30% body fat right now from the DEXA).
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Seriously man, like @jskrabac was saying in the other thread, forget about the DEXA stuff. Just go with the scale and how you look in the mirror. And don’t overthink shit. Work on technique/form. Mental cues to activate certain muscles and to push beyond what you think you’re capable of.
This sport is a simple one that just requires the basic ability to self-evaluate and a decent level of self-awareness. I literally know borderline idiots whom are successful at this. You gradually develop this in the long run as long as you don’t get distracted by minor shit that “experts” keep churning out to generate hits. I don’t even follow programs anymore and do what I feel like doing in the gym but I do have a ballpark idea of what my strength on certain exercises are since I’ve been doing this for so long. And nothing I do is random though it may seem that way to someone who sees me doing a different workout for the same muscle groups every session. There’s always a reason why I do something or I wouldn’t waste my time doing it.
It’s the same with diet. People who watch me order food at places like MacDonald’s think I’m crazy but that’s for only ONE meal. I have a couple of other meals in the day which they don’t see me eating that balance the crap out and I ate this way out of convenience before all this WHF crap.
This is because I have a ballpark idea of at least how much protein and calories I’m consuming regardless of what I eat because when I first started lifting I was looking at and memorizing the carb, protein and fat breakdowns of every can of food I bought or at least got an estimate from the big, experienced guys lol. When I had access to the internet, I’d look everything up like what’s in a pound of beef v pork. They even used to print this breakdown for most of the stuff on their menu on the paper on each serving plate at Macs for some time and I fucking memorized it lol. Nowadays we have apps for this. You get familiar enough with this stuff, even manipulating your diet for stuff like minor recomps wouldn’t be hard unless you’re trying to get to contest levels of leanness.
This shit eventually becomes instinctual but you need to start on the right path from the bottom in order to get there.
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@dt79 I love when you post. It’s hard to simply explain why this simple stuff should be kept simple, but you nail it.
@supercardrives I’ll just echo what everyone is saying: I think you’re looking a little too far ahead. Just nail every day, as written, and I think you’ll find it will all take care of itself.
Also, to your diet, when we’re wearing our winter coats, so to speak, the adipose can be our surplus. You’re not going to lose muscle or shortchange your results at your current body composition. I would really focus on eating habits, though. Like get your schedule, food choices, portions, etc. Just cleaning your diet up is going to take you miles before you have to stress too much.
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Much appreciated!
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Yeah, I’ve cleaned up diet quite a bit, esp with that meal prep service, its all clean meals, high in protein (chicken breast/thigh sometimes) and supplements like Amino Energy, Whey Protein.
Also divided up into 6 meals per day with around 35-40g protein per meal (as Jeff suggests).
Removed junk/you-know-its-fucked type food for now. Been feeling good so far.
I am definitely on the “fatter” side even in the mirror, aka more fat-than-skinny (I’ll probably put a shirtless photo up some time). I think a small recomp for the next 6 weeks can really help (Jeff even suggests this for someone like me).
My waist (around belly button) is around 33.5 inches, which is well, not great considering the low muscle mass. Ideally I’d like to get it down to 31.5" in 6-7 weeks.
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It was co-opted by douchebags whe felt the need to complicate something relatively simple in order to make a name for themselves.
Just keep plugging away little by little, it’s a marathon not a sprint. Looks like you’ve already started making better dietary choices, keep going and it becomes a habit. I say this as someone who didn’t see any physique improvement despite training my ass off until I got to grips with nutrition.
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