Here’s my problem, when I pull max attempt sumos my hips shoot up and I’m left to stiff leg the pull. Case in point… WDFPF world champs '07 - YouTube (watch from 3.08)
I figure if I can keep my hips down I should get even better carryover from the suit and my pull should take a bit of a jump with it. 10kg in 10 week would be nice please…
Anyway I’ve decided the best way to build up my hips is thru ultra wide sumo work. I put a pair of collars on the inner sleeve of a bar and THEN went toes to the plates, so I’m realisticly about 2-4 inches wider than I’ll be in comp.
Doing them this way today made them feel SO easy. This is my first session back so the weight’s relatively light (keep in mind I pulled 250 3 days ago!) Ultra wide sumo pulls 160x5 - YouTube
The question is, is this the best way? Am I just kidding myself because I won’t be able to go that wide in comp, or is what I’m doing probably gonna be effective?
My next meet’s 10 weeks away, I’ll be taking my last suited pull 2 and a half weeks out so I reckon I’ve about 4-5 weeks of training withe the ultra wides. How does working up to 200-210kg for 5 sound?
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Here’s my problem, when I pull max attempt sumos my hips shoot up and I’m left to stiff leg the pull. Case in point… WDFPF world champs '07 - YouTube (watch from 3.08)
I figure if I can keep my hips down I should get even better carryover from the suit and my pull should take a bit of a jump with it. 10kg in 10 week would be nice please…
Anyway I’ve decided the best way to build up my hips is thru ultra wide sumo work. I put a pair of collars on the inner sleeve of a bar and THEN went toes to the plates, so I’m realisticly about 2-4 inches wider than I’ll be in comp.
Doing them this way today made them feel SO easy. This is my first session back so the weight’s relatively light (keep in mind I pulled 250 3 days ago!) Ultra wide sumo pulls 160x5 - YouTube
The question is, is this the best way? Am I just kidding myself because I won’t be able to go that wide in comp, or is what I’m doing probably gonna be effective?
My next meet’s 10 weeks away, I’ll be taking my last suited pull 2 and a half weeks out so I reckon I’ve about 4-5 weeks of training withe the ultra wides. How does working up to 200-210kg for 5 sound?
Any other ideas on what I could do??[/quote]
Hanley,
Ultra-wides are superb for bringing up the hip strength and learning to stay down to load the suit’s initial pop better. However, be careful how many weeks in a row you use them or they will make your hips ache like nothing else.
Two or 3 weeks consecutively would be max IMO and, though others might disagree, I’d do them as speed/supplemental work rather than working up to a heavy weight. You’ll still get a lot out of them taking them lighter.
It should help technically, if nothing else. You pointed your toes out more and forced your knees out more, which you’ll need to do to hit a better sumo dead and prevent stiff-legging. You’ll find you need to sit your arse back more when you go back to a normal sumo stance, as you’ll have a longer path to the bar. It’ll also let you get more from the suit.
It’s the only technical thing that you’ll miss out on by doing ultra-wides, but if you do some light squats with your comp sumo stance you’ll get a feel for it, as well as when you switch back to your comp stance.
I planned on running them for another 4 weeks and working up to about a 5 rep max, at the moment I reckon that weight was only about 70% of what I could handle for a max set of 5 so if I can work up to 200-210kgx5 I should be golden for a bit of an increase in my pull right??
[quote]beefcakemdphd wrote:
Hanley,
you can also afford to widen your stance. I am only 5’4", but my sumo stance has my toes about 1-2 inches from the plates.
beef[/quote]
My inside leg’s 31 inches at 5’10. I’ve relatively short legs so I’ve always been too cautious about going ultra wide. Maybe I should cos it’ll knock a whole load off my ROM.
you can also afford to widen your stance. I am only 5’4", but my sumo stance has my toes about 1-2 inches from the plates.
beef[/quote]
I agree with this. In the competition video, it looked like you have a good 4 or 5 inches gap between your toes and the plates. Move out a little, especially if you think the ultra-wides felt so easy.
Something I noticed on the competition vids: on your initial pull off the floor, a good portion of your upper body is leaning over the bar. A tip picked up from Westside was to make sure you “stay behind the bar”. Tuck the shoulders down and back, almost like you’re trying to bend the bar around your legs. Also, you have to assume what I call a “gorilla stance” (wide foot placement, knees flared out, ass back, upright torso, head up, shoulders back, and arms resting in between the legs) just before gripping the bar. Starting in a more upright posture shortens the stroke and keeps you behind the bar.
I gather that you’ve been doing sheiko a few times around, so I doubt that hip and leg strength is your issue at this point in your training. The lifters at my gym rarely get overly sore in the legs with the amount of lower body volume we do. Deadlifts generally get our upper backs really sore more than anything, so we added a lot more rows and pulls to address that.
My first suggestion from watching your vid would be turn turn your feet out more. This will allow you to get your hips closer to the bar which is what you want. Also, when you start the lift don’t do the feet through the floor stuff conventional pullers do, insead you want to spread the floor with your feet, knees out, hips coming towards the bar much like a squat.
At the same time, you want to be pulling your shoulders back. So basically your hips are going forward and your shoulders are going back, this should eventually have you in a position where your upper body is erect, your hips are all the way forward but your knees are still slightly bent. Then all you gotta do is basically lock out your knees by doing a quarter squat (if even that).
Thanks for all the tips guys. I had actually been reading that marc bartley article and got some advice off Sam Byrd and Al Caslow about arching really hard at the bottom to keep everything behind the bar and keep the hips down low.
It’s definately working. Here’s a quick update of yesterdays pulls
Something I noticed on the competition vids: on your initial pull off the floor, a good portion of your upper body is leaning over the bar. A tip picked up from Westside was to make sure you “stay behind the bar”. Tuck the shoulders down and back, almost like you’re trying to bend the bar around your legs. Also, you have to assume what I call a “gorilla stance” (wide foot placement, knees flared out, ass back, upright torso, head up, shoulders back, and arms resting in between the legs) just before gripping the bar. Starting in a more upright posture shortens the stroke and keeps you behind the bar.
I gather that you’ve been doing sheiko a few times around, so I doubt that hip and leg strength is your issue at this point in your training. The lifters at my gym rarely get overly sore in the legs with the amount of lower body volume we do. Deadlifts generally get our upper backs really sore more than anything, so we added a lot more rows and pulls to address that.
Here’s my setup:
Might help…
Great job!
David[/quote]
That’s a good pull in your video. Flew right up off the ground!! Impressive.
Something I noticed on the competition vids: on your initial pull off the floor, a good portion of your upper body is leaning over the bar. A tip picked up from Westside was to make sure you “stay behind the bar”. Tuck the shoulders down and back, almost like you’re trying to bend the bar around your legs. Also, you have to assume what I call a “gorilla stance” (wide foot placement, knees flared out, ass back, upright torso, head up, shoulders back, and arms resting in between the legs) just before gripping the bar. Starting in a more upright posture shortens the stroke and keeps you behind the bar.
I gather that you’ve been doing sheiko a few times around, so I doubt that hip and leg strength is your issue at this point in your training. The lifters at my gym rarely get overly sore in the legs with the amount of lower body volume we do. Deadlifts generally get our upper backs really sore more than anything, so we added a lot more rows and pulls to address that.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Thanks for all the tips guys. I had actually been reading that marc bartley article and got some advice off Sam Byrd and Al Caslow about arching really hard at the bottom to keep everything behind the bar and keep the hips down low.
It’s definately working. Here’s a quick update of yesterdays pulls
I feel like I’ve alot more there too.[/quote]
Definitely better, but you need to REALLY push your hips through and pull your shoulders back when the bar is just below knee level. A good exercise to learn this is RDL’s. Start with the bar hanging, lower it until it is just below your knees, then initiate the pull by throwing your hips forward and shoulders back. Don’t push with your legs. This will get you used to the feeling.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Thanks for all the tips guys. I had actually been reading that marc bartley article and got some advice off Sam Byrd and Al Caslow about arching really hard at the bottom to keep everything behind the bar and keep the hips down low.
It’s definately working. Here’s a quick update of yesterdays pulls
I feel like I’ve alot more there too.[/quote]
That looks perfect! Just about the only thing in front of the bar at your initial pull is your knuckles, nose, and chin. You might even notice that the pressure and weight of the lift moved off of your head, neck, and shoulders down to your hips. Once I got behind the bar, that high pressure, eye popping feeling in my head went away.
Now, just knock out a few thousand reps and you’ll be crankin’ out 300 kilo pulls in no time. I’m gonna show your vid to a couple of new lifters to explain the whole concept of getting behind the bar. Nice lifting!
Novaeer & Donut,
Thanks for the props. If you noticed at the very end of the clip I was calling for a 4th attempt because the 710 was an AAU American and World Single lift record. I pulled a 716 about two and a half minutes later. Unfortunately the chick taking the video went to take a piss and missed the pull! Got three whites…lol
That looks perfect! Just about the only thing in front of the bar at your initial pull is your knuckles, nose, and chin. You might even notice that the pressure and weight of the lift moved off of your head, neck, and shoulders down to your hips. Once I got behind the bar, that high pressure, eye popping feeling in my head went away.
Now, just knock out a few thousand reps and you’ll be crankin’ out 300 kilo pulls in no time. I’m gonna show your vid to a couple of new lifters to explain the whole concept of getting behind the bar. Nice lifting!
[/quote]
Haha thanks! It’s good to see what I’m doing is working. The plan’s 185kg for 1-3x5 next week.
The next big milestone’s 600lbs (272.5kg). Hopefully I’ll hit it at some stage in '08. Then I’ll think about the hunt for 300kg. My deadlift’s always been my suckiest lift so if I could break 300 as a junior it’d be a dream come true. It’s a big ask, but I’ve til July 24th 2010!!
your quads are too weak. when you have heavy resistance in your hands (loaded barbell), the body will always try to do what is the easiest, to shot your ass in the air.
bring up you quad strength with front squats.
also widen your stance. make sure you shot your hip hard horisontally to the front immediately after getting the bar off the ground, this will ensure that you don’t stiff leg it.
it is all about leverages.
look at my deadlift form in the end of this video.
