I have been a conventional puller my entire lifting career. I am making the switch over to sumo because I have brought up my quad strength significantly at this point and upon messing around with sumo one day in the gym, realized I may be better suited for the style now. What I am trying to figure out now is the frequency of training it. I found that in the past I would see the best gains when pulling convention every other week. Same thing for my squat-every other week.
I would of course be training these lifts heavy (85%-95+% range). I feel no where near as beat up after a sumo session as when pulling conventional. I fully understand the mechanics of both lifts. I am just curious as to who pulls sumo and how often and with what %.
In normal training plans I will sumo deadlift 3-4x per week. Most work in the range of 70-85%. At the same time, I squat 4x per week, again, in the 70-85% range. Variations and accessory work is pretty much non-existent.
I pull sumo once a week all year at minimum, and I up frequency during peaking cycles to 2x weekly. My heavy day is 95%+ singles and backdown doubles that depend on how I feel, while my light day is around 80% +chains for singles. It’s worth noting that my sumo technique is a modified stance and pretty terrible form, but it’s a lot less harsh on my back even considering that.
Ive always pulled once a week, usually 90%+ for a couple doubles, and do some lighter speed work afterwards. Its been working perfect for me, same thing with squats. However, I have yet to try higher frequency/lower volume for deads.
[quote]RUHLFAN wrote:
I have been a conventional puller my entire lifting career. I am making the switch over to sumo because I have brought up my quad strength significantly at this point and upon messing around with sumo one day in the gym, realized I may be better suited for the style now. What I am trying to figure out now is the frequency of training it. I found that in the past I would see the best gains when pulling convention every other week. Same thing for my squat-every other week.
I would of course be training these lifts heavy (85%-95+% range). I feel no where near as beat up after a sumo session as when pulling conventional. I fully understand the mechanics of both lifts. I am just curious as to who pulls sumo and how often and with what %. [/quote]
You know you better that we.
Before changing everything, why not just keep it the same and see how it goes? Adjust from there if you feel that you need more frequency. Or, if you feel that you can do more in a session, do that.
[quote]RUHLFAN wrote:
I feel no where near as beat up after a sumo session as when pulling conventional.[/quote]
As this implies that you do sumos with proper form, I would give it a shot to slowly increase the frequency to something that arramzy does.
I personally like to alternate sumo block pulls with sumos from the floor. That way I pulled up to 7x/week - dunno exact % since I autoregulate but always at least >80%.
I’ve never had luck pulling every week with sumo. Every other week has been working pretty well. On off weeks I’ll hit up some wide box squats to work a similar groove but avoid injury.
Huh… No idea how you guys make any progress on a lift by training it every 2nd week. Seems like not nearly enough practice. But hey, if it works for you then by all means… I will say I am a little jealous of how little work you have to put in haha…
[quote]arramzy wrote:
Huh… No idea how you guys make any progress on a lift by training it every 2nd week. Seems like not nearly enough practice. But hey, if it works for you then by all means… I will say I am a little jealous of how little work you have to put in haha…[/quote]
I agree, but enough people seem to have success with it that it has to be true for some people.
[quote]arramzy wrote:
Huh… No idea how you guys make any progress on a lift by training it every 2nd week. Seems like not nearly enough practice. But hey, if it works for you then by all means… I will say I am a little jealous of how little work you have to put in haha…[/quote]
I would love to have more practice but every time I start pulling sumo weekly, my hips get hurt. Of course it’s possible I’m going about the higher frequency all wrong… intensity is probably too high… but I really hate lighter “technique” work because it has almost no carryover to heavy pulling technique.
There may be not as many competition reps, but I assure you that work is being done!
I’ll offer that after a good couple of years of training, and when the weights start to get heavy, a lifter tends to be less tolerant of stress.
I deadlift for work sets and squat for work sets on alternate weeks. I deadlift upper mid 500’s, squat mid 400’s. It is hard to keep healthy knees otherwise.
BUT…I’m 56 and have been doing this (off and on) forever.
Further, back in the '70’s it was not uncommon to read of newbies who would deadlift like a MF once a month or so and who became crazy strong people.
The “whatever works is the right answer” space is huge.
I will further state that over the decades I have seen hundreds of people scared shitless of doing less. But, it always worked for me. 2 days per week workouts got me to Elite in the ADFPA (lifetime ungeared) as a 181 with a 525, 320, 620 for a 1465 and a 630 DL in a single lift meet.
[quote]emskee wrote:
I’ll offer that after a good couple of years of training, and when the weights start to get heavy, a lifter tends to be less tolerant of stress.
I deadlift for work sets and squat for work sets on alternate weeks. I deadlift upper mid 500’s, squat mid 400’s. It is hard to keep healthy knees otherwise.
BUT…I’m 56 and have been doing this (off and on) forever.
Further, back in the '70’s it was not uncommon to read of newbies who would deadlift like a MF once a month or so and who became crazy strong people.
The “whatever works is the right answer” space is huge.
I will further state that over the decades I have seen hundreds of people scared shitless of doing less. But, it always worked for me. 2 days per week workouts got me to Elite in the ADFPA (lifetime ungeared) as a 181 with a 525, 320, 620 for a 1465 and a 630 DL in a single lift meet.
[/quote]
For the record I squat in the mid 500’s and deadlift in the mid 600’s raw without wraps at 83kg class. So no, it’s not a matter of lacking development. In fact, lifters that have developed good strength and GOOD TECHNICAL PROFICIENCY should begin to be able to lift MORE OFTEN even with MORE WEIGHT. The issue arises with people that lift with poor form and thus they are essentially slowly causing more trauma to muscles/joints/tendons etc. that shouldn’t be stressed.
[quote]emskee wrote:
I’ll offer that after a good couple of years of training, and when the weights start to get heavy, a lifter tends to be less tolerant of stress.
I deadlift for work sets and squat for work sets on alternate weeks. I deadlift upper mid 500’s, squat mid 400’s. It is hard to keep healthy knees otherwise.
BUT…I’m 56 and have been doing this (off and on) forever.
Further, back in the '70’s it was not uncommon to read of newbies who would deadlift like a MF once a month or so and who became crazy strong people.
The “whatever works is the right answer” space is huge.
I will further state that over the decades I have seen hundreds of people scared shitless of doing less. But, it always worked for me. 2 days per week workouts got me to Elite in the ADFPA (lifetime ungeared) as a 181 with a 525, 320, 620 for a 1465 and a 630 DL in a single lift meet.
[/quote]
For the record I squat in the mid 500’s and deadlift in the mid 600’s raw without wraps at 83kg class. So no, it’s not a matter of lacking development. In fact, lifters that have developed good strength and GOOD TECHNICAL PROFICIENCY should begin to be able to lift MORE OFTEN even with MORE WEIGHT. The issue arises with people that lift with poor form and thus they are essentially slowly causing more trauma to muscles/joints/tendons etc. that shouldn’t be stressed.
[/quote]
Don’t forget age though. Although you are a kick ass lifter Adam, you are still young. That doesn’t mean you require more training experience it just means that aging bodies adapt and recover differently. I can’t even sleep pain free like I could 20 years ago.
[quote]emskee wrote:
I’ll offer that after a good couple of years of training, and when the weights start to get heavy, a lifter tends to be less tolerant of stress.
I deadlift for work sets and squat for work sets on alternate weeks. I deadlift upper mid 500’s, squat mid 400’s. It is hard to keep healthy knees otherwise.
BUT…I’m 56 and have been doing this (off and on) forever.
Further, back in the '70’s it was not uncommon to read of newbies who would deadlift like a MF once a month or so and who became crazy strong people.
The “whatever works is the right answer” space is huge.
I will further state that over the decades I have seen hundreds of people scared shitless of doing less. But, it always worked for me. 2 days per week workouts got me to Elite in the ADFPA (lifetime ungeared) as a 181 with a 525, 320, 620 for a 1465 and a 630 DL in a single lift meet.
[/quote]
For the record I squat in the mid 500’s and deadlift in the mid 600’s raw without wraps at 83kg class. So no, it’s not a matter of lacking development. In fact, lifters that have developed good strength and GOOD TECHNICAL PROFICIENCY should begin to be able to lift MORE OFTEN even with MORE WEIGHT. The issue arises with people that lift with poor form and thus they are essentially slowly causing more trauma to muscles/joints/tendons etc. that shouldn’t be stressed.
[/quote]
Reread my post. If you’d rather not, then we’ll call it a draw.
[quote]arramzy wrote:
Huh… No idea how you guys make any progress on a lift by training it every 2nd week. Seems like not nearly enough practice. But hey, if it works for you then by all means… I will say I am a little jealous of how little work you have to put in haha…[/quote]
I deadlift 6 times a year not counting competitions, haha
That said, I do put in a lot of work for it, just little deadlifting.
Thank you for all the replies guys. I think I am going to do a speed day and a heavier day. I started doing that this week. I just feel that waiting every two weeks to pull like I used to do conventional was not going to be enough. So I will follow this protocol. If by chance I begin to start feeling burnt, I will drop the speed day.
[quote]RUHLFAN wrote:
Thank you for all the replies guys. I think I am going to do a speed day and a heavier day. I started doing that this week. I just feel that waiting every two weeks to pull like I used to do conventional was not going to be enough. So I will follow this protocol. If by chance I begin to start feeling burnt, I will drop the speed day. [/quote]
First week with this protocol I hit 520x5 sumo raw, which was a 20lb sumo PR for 5. The most I’ve pulled sumo at the moment. Maybe 10th time pulling sumo ever. Body weight is around 212. Actually this is 10lbs heavier then my best set of 5 for conventional too. Im trying to figure out how to upload a video from facebook to include here but I cant figure it out LOL.
Anyway I used 265x12 doubles w/ 45sec rest last speed day (which was 45% of my previous best sumo set ever 500x5x.0333=83.25+500=583) and figured I’d add 10lbs each week and drop a set each week until I hit 5 doubles, then repeat the speed cycle starting with 10lbs heavier, and so on.
LOL.