Sumo = Conventional

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:

[quote]sneezingstardust wrote:
I found that pulling sumo for awhile really helped my conventional pull. I switched to sumo for a couple months and did conventional as assistance…when I switched back to conventional everything felt a LOT stronger.
[/quote]

I’m sure we’d all love to see a vid of your deadlift.

You know, to see your form and stuff…[/quote]

Smooth.

[/quote]

Lol.[/quote]

She has a meet this weekend, you now guaranteed that she won’t post any video of her lifts.

P.S. to make it sound less creepy, I’m in the same meet.

22

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

Dumb advice.

23

[quote]
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.
Luke[/quote]

L M A O

24

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:
And if it matters,

Height: 5’9
Weight: 196

Squat : 365
Bench : 305
Conv. Pull: 435
Sumo Pull : 435

Age 18

Training for about 4 years, less than 1 year powerlifting.[/quote]

What does your program look like?[/quote]

I’ve been on 531 for about five months (four cycles).
[/quote]

less and one year. Post four typical workouts (from your actual log) and if you can a video. I’m guessing either you have a mental block or a technique break down.

25

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:
And if it matters,

Height: 5’9
Weight: 196

Squat : 365
Bench : 305
Conv. Pull: 435
Sumo Pull : 435

Age 18

Training for about 4 years, less than 1 year powerlifting.[/quote]

What does your program look like?[/quote]

I’ve been on 531 for about five months (four cycles).
[/quote]

less and one year. Post four typical workouts (from your actual log) and if you can a video. I’m guessing either you have a mental block or a technique break down.[/quote]\

I only actually keep track of my 531 sets, not assistance. Here’s what I have from my last four deadlift workouts.

1: Sumo; 305x5, 325x5, 345x7, 435x1 probably could have got 450
2: Sumo; 325x3, 345x3, 365x4
3: Sumo; 305x5, 345x3, 385x4 - Conventional; 315x5x4, 335x5
4: (yesterday) Conventional; warmup… 435x1 probably couldve done 450

Why would I have a mental block? I’m hitting PR’s in sumo almost every week and my conventional pull went great the first few times I tried it since 1842.

26

[quote]majik wrote:

She has a meet this weekend, you now guaranteed that she won’t post any video of her lifts.

P.S. to make it sound less creepy, I’m in the same meet.
[/quote]

100% raw toronto? what weight class are you in?

27

Today was the first day I have every really dont sumo deadlift, I didnt get much sleep last night and was tired. My last set was only 425:( for 1 rep. I couldnt get it off the floor with convitional, i took it down to 425, and nailed it sumo style lol So I may be switching over to sumo now, BTW. Iv never deadlifted before until about 8 months ago. So Is that good? IDK, im 175, 5’9"… I just recently started powerlifting,probley about 8 months ago to be exact. But back to the topic, Im starting to like sumo more and mroe!

28

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

You’ll change your tune when you’re lifting big weights. You want to deadlift big, you need to be pulling a lot on a regular basis. IMO and experience the train the muscle stuff works briefly at a certain strength level then taps out.

29

[quote]A Iron Mack wrote:
Today was the first day I have every really dont sumo deadlift, I didnt get much sleep last night and was tired. My last set was only 425:( for 1 rep. I couldnt get it off the floor with convitional, i took it down to 425, and nailed it sumo style lol So I may be switching over to sumo now, BTW. Iv never deadlifted before until about 8 months ago. So Is that good? IDK, im 175, 5’9"… I just recently started powerlifting,probley about 8 months ago to be exact. But back to the topic, Im starting to like sumo more and mroe![/quote]

Are you a native speaker?

30

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

I did 10+ sets of DLs every week for 10 weeks. Then I pulled 600.

If you want to Deadlift more, deadlift more.[/quote]

x2.

My pull has always sucked monkey cock.

It got behind when I didn’t pull and went for the idea of assistance work only to raise my pull…

Well that didn’t work, so while all my other lifts increased my deadlift stayed the same. Then I realized that while almost every aspect of westside works great for me, the whole infrequent deadlift thing doesn’t.

I started pulling heavy every week, and light once a week most of the time, and my max went up 100lbs in 7 months.

31

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

I did 10+ sets of DLs every week for 10 weeks. Then I pulled 600.

If you want to Deadlift more, deadlift more.[/quote]

x2.

My pull has always sucked monkey cock.

It got behind when I didn’t pull and went for the idea of assistance work only to raise my pull…

Well that didn’t work, so while all my other lifts increased my deadlift stayed the same. Then I realized that while almost every aspect of westside works great for me, the whole infrequent deadlift thing doesn’t.

I started pulling heavy every week, and light once a week most of the time, and my max went up 100lbs in 7 months. [/quote]

How were you able to manage recovery on a westside template while DLing heavy and light in the same week?

32

If you are weak off the floor, then I think squatting to improve the deadlift works wonders. Or at least that’s what has worked for me from 315 all the way to 474. I don’t deadlift heavy that often (normally about once every 2 months), and it steadily improves along with my squat. If I try to deadlift heavy each week, my squat suffers, and my dl only progresses a little bit faster.

Keep in mind that this is all from the standpoint of an off-the-floor weakness. If you have trouble locking out, then more deadlifting (esp from varying heights) is going to be helpful.

33

I can’t speak for sumo pulling, because I deadlift conventional. As an olympic lifter I know my training is different, but I have found that pulling heavy off the floor every day (I always include either an olympic lift or a deadlift) has brought my deadlift higher. My deadlift has gone from about 380 to 435 (I know, pretty weak by PL standards) in just a few months by pulling more often.

Also, Konstantin Konstantinov does a form of deadlift twice a week in his deadlift specialization program and obviously it worked. Not that everyone can mimic that of course, but just taking a look at what the best do. I don’t know about Bolton or Magnusson though.

34

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Raging_Teddy wrote:
And if it matters,

Height: 5’9
Weight: 196

Squat : 365
Bench : 305
Conv. Pull: 435
Sumo Pull : 435

Age 18

Training for about 4 years, less than 1 year powerlifting.[/quote]

What does your program look like?[/quote]

I’ve been on 531 for about five months (four cycles).
[/quote]

less and one year. Post four typical workouts (from your actual log) and if you can a video. I’m guessing either you have a mental block or a technique break down.[/quote]\

I only actually keep track of my 531 sets, not assistance. Here’s what I have from my last four deadlift workouts.

1: Sumo; 305x5, 325x5, 345x7, 435x1 probably could have got 450
2: Sumo; 325x3, 345x3, 365x4
3: Sumo; 305x5, 345x3, 385x4 - Conventional; 315x5x4, 335x5
4: (yesterday) Conventional; warmup… 435x1 probably couldve done 450

Why would I have a mental block? I’m hitting PR’s in sumo almost every week and my conventional pull went great the first few times I tried it since 1842.

[/quote]

Looking at this, you’re not doing 5/3/1. You’re doing whatever the fuck you want.

Why do you have 435x1 (or why did you do 435x1), and who gives a fuck if you could get to 450. And why are you jumping from 345 to 435? How in the world are you doing 315x5x4 if you did an all out set on a 5/3/1 day? Your 5/3/1 workout set is not correct if you’re deadlifting 435x1 and only doing 385x1 during work sets (on the same day) the rest of the time, or again you’re you’re too scared to follow the damn program. If you can do 435, you should be pumping out a final set of 385 5-6 times and stop boosting your ego to prove to yourself you can do 435.

Follow the rules, work up to ONE all out set! Stop going for a fucking max after the all out set (if you can, either you started to light, or you didn’t work hard enough in an ALL OUT set). You paid for the program why the fuck are you not following it.

Because stagnation is either mental, technical, or physiological. Has nothing to do with doing exercises.

35

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

You’ll change your tune when you’re lifting big weights. You want to deadlift big, you need to be pulling a lot on a regular basis. IMO and experience the train the muscle stuff works briefly at a certain strength level then taps out.[/quote]

Yes, I want to hear his plan for me to deadlift 800 lbs…if you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

36

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:

[quote]A Iron Mack wrote:
Today was the first day I have every done sumo deadlift,I felt week today because I didnt get much sleep last night and was tired. My last set was only 425:( for 1 rep. I couldnt get it off the floor with convitional, i took it down to 425, and nailed it sumo style lol So I may be switching over to sumo now, BTW. Iv never deadlifted before until about 8 months ago. So Is that good? IDK, im 175, 5’9"… I just recently started powerlifting,probley about 8 months ago to be exact. But back to the topic, Im starting to like sumo more and mroe![/quote]

Are you a native speaker?[/quote]

?? yes, I i have no idea what i was typing at the begining.lol i thought i proof read it but i guess i didnt. I think i cut out part of it and didnt put it back in.ha I fixed it to what it was suppose to say, sorry for my mistake.

Today was the first day I have every done sumo deadlift,I felt week today because I didnt get much sleep last night and was tired. My last set was only 425:( for 1 rep. I couldnt get it off the floor with convitional, i took it down to 425, and nailed it sumo style lol So I may be switching over to sumo now, BTW. Iv never deadlifted before until about 8 months ago. So Is that good? IDK, im 175, 5’9"… I just recently started powerlifting,probley about 8 months ago to be exact. But back to the topic, Im starting to like sumo more and more!

37

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

You’ll change your tune when you’re lifting big weights. You want to deadlift big, you need to be pulling a lot on a regular basis. IMO and experience the train the muscle stuff works briefly at a certain strength level then taps out.[/quote]

Yes, I want to hear his plan for me to deadlift 800 lbs…if you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.[/quote]

Rotating max effort exercises for my deadlift did nothing. What worked were pulling exercises . Pulling against doubled minis (230 extra lbs at lockout). And first pin pulls. Plates were app 3" off the floor . This is my sticking point. This took me from 500 to 585. Weighing my plates out of curiosity showed it to be 599.5, haha! Still not 600.

I decided to hire Josh Bryant. Guess what a fuckton of pulling, you can check my other thread here for numbers. In my old workouts I might have had four reps at 365-585. All singles.

First workout with Josh called for 455,495 x 3, then six sets of 390 x 3 with one minute breaks. Later in the workout it called for three sets of 3.5" platform stiff legs with 255 for 6s.
The stiff legs went up app 10 lbs each week. Two sets of the 390 were added this week. Week three destroyed me. I could not move 390 my tenth set.
That day I did a total of 35 reps with 365 and up.

This wave calls for 505, 515, and finally 525. Made the first two easily . Week three is just starting. Btw, I only once tried 500 or more one time before and did 500 x2. This was with a max of 585. I did 515 last week for three with 1-2 in the tank.

Also this wave my speed sets went from 390 to 420, 430, then this week will be 440. Five sets the first two weeks with two minutes rest. This week is 4 sets, 2 minutes rest. Platform stiff legs are 295,3 sets, 6 reps.

That’s a lot of heavy pulling. Josh expects 625-650 after sixteen weeks of this. All my training us raw but I will use a metal king deadlifter for maxes. The scary thing is Josh told me he’ll pull out the heavy guns for 700 next year. Which is a little scary.

Want a big pull? Pull heavy, often, hard, and commit to the pull.

38

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

I did 10+ sets of DLs every week for 10 weeks. Then I pulled 600.

If you want to Deadlift more, deadlift more.[/quote]

x2.

My pull has always sucked monkey cock.

It got behind when I didn’t pull and went for the idea of assistance work only to raise my pull…

Well that didn’t work, so while all my other lifts increased my deadlift stayed the same. Then I realized that while almost every aspect of westside works great for me, the whole infrequent deadlift thing doesn’t.

I started pulling heavy every week, and light once a week most of the time, and my max went up 100lbs in 7 months. [/quote]

How were you able to manage recovery on a westside template while DLing heavy and light in the same week?
[/quote]

I don’t even know. Its what works best for me.

On my heavy squat day I do some type of light pulling movement, and on my heavy deadlift day I do some sort of submaximal squat movement.

So far I have put about 100lbs onto my raw deadlift in about 16 weeks, then for geared pulls, I have put on about 100lbs in the last 9 months… sorry I know above I put 7 months, I went back to my training log and it has been more like 9.

I also train back every workout.

I just recover well, even before I had any assistance.

39

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

I did 10+ sets of DLs every week for 10 weeks. Then I pulled 600.

If you want to Deadlift more, deadlift more.[/quote]

x2.

My pull has always sucked monkey cock.

It got behind when I didn’t pull and went for the idea of assistance work only to raise my pull…

Well that didn’t work, so while all my other lifts increased my deadlift stayed the same. Then I realized that while almost every aspect of westside works great for me, the whole infrequent deadlift thing doesn’t.

I started pulling heavy every week, and light once a week most of the time, and my max went up 100lbs in 7 months. [/quote]

How were you able to manage recovery on a westside template while DLing heavy and light in the same week?
[/quote]

I don’t even know. Its what works best for me.

On my heavy squat day I do some type of light pulling movement, and on my heavy deadlift day I do some sort of submaximal squat movement.

So far I have put about 100lbs onto my raw deadlift in about 16 weeks, then for geared pulls, I have put on about 100lbs in the last 9 months… sorry I know above I put 7 months, I went back to my training log and it has been more like 9.

I also train back every workout.

I just recover well, even before I had any assistance.
[/quote]

thats a crazy amount of volume for the dead, maybe thats why my dead sucks. what kind of squat volume do you do during this?

\

40

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s because you didn’t train your conventional DL. I didn’t DL over 300 lbs for 7 months but managed to hit 335x4 the first time back. I didn’t DL, I just trained all the muscles involved. If you want to deadlift more, don’t deadlift.

Luke[/quote]

I did 10+ sets of DLs every week for 10 weeks. Then I pulled 600.

If you want to Deadlift more, deadlift more.[/quote]

x2.

My pull has always sucked monkey cock.

It got behind when I didn’t pull and went for the idea of assistance work only to raise my pull…

Well that didn’t work, so while all my other lifts increased my deadlift stayed the same. Then I realized that while almost every aspect of westside works great for me, the whole infrequent deadlift thing doesn’t.

I started pulling heavy every week, and light once a week most of the time, and my max went up 100lbs in 7 months. [/quote]

How were you able to manage recovery on a westside template while DLing heavy and light in the same week?
[/quote]

I don’t even know. Its what works best for me.

On my heavy squat day I do some type of light pulling movement, and on my heavy deadlift day I do some sort of submaximal squat movement.

So far I have put about 100lbs onto my raw deadlift in about 16 weeks, then for geared pulls, I have put on about 100lbs in the last 9 months… sorry I know above I put 7 months, I went back to my training log and it has been more like 9.

I also train back every workout.

I just recover well, even before I had any assistance.
[/quote]

Lol, guess I’ll just stick to DLing heavy once a month or so and doing speed work for it once a week since my innate recovery sucks (yes I do GPP). Granted, I still do stuff like box SSB low squats and suspended chain GMs for max effort inbetween heavy DLs to help my DL.

But I’ll try doing something like you said. Like on a squattier ME day, I’ll try doing some heavyish SLDLs or GMs and on a DLish max effort, do some heavyish OLY style or box squats for supplementary afterwards. I don’t think that will be unreasonable for recovery.

I’m still trying to figure out this westside style approach for myself, but regardless it’s helped my lifts go up (especially squat) more than any other approach I’ve tried so far.

BTW, what kind of build do you have (long limbs, short torso vs. short limbs, long torso… that kinda thing).