I am curious to hear from those of you that have tried Ian?s 12 week programs. What kind of results did you get (i.e. increased muscle hypertrophy, strength, etc.). Also, did you find the workouts to be too long or just right? His programs are a little different from the normal protocol and I?m interested to hear what others have experienced.
I’ve actually done his 12 wk. chest and leg workouts together. I had really great results but I want to point out that you need to finish the whole 12 wk. program for full benefits.
King is a genius in that the extent of these programs when completed cures imbalances, builds mass and strength as a whole for the lower or upper body, etc.
The reason I point this out is that I was bad at first of following say half of the regime then jumping to some other program, while I still saw good results, it wasn’t until I completely finished the programs all the way through that I realized just how much they had to offer not to mention how well thought out they were.
I’m also doing both Super Strenght and Limping right now…I’m just finished week 5.
That bastard’s gonna make me big whether I like it or not!
I suggest you eat massive during the time. I underate the first time I tried it, and didn’t get the full benefit (though I did gain substantial size). Right now I’m stuck size wise (by the tape measure…though other’s have commented that I look bigger), but my strength gains are huge. So I’m making some adjustments to my diet to optimize size.
Last time I did 12 weeks to super strenght results included going from struggling to bench 135 for 6-8 reps to easily doing 4 reps at 225 by week 12 (This is what I was squatting at the time).
I’m looking forward to finding out what my gains will be after the next 7 weeks.
Enjoy it man…they’re intense but you’ll love it!
I’m going to go out on a limb here.
I don’t really like King’s programs.
gasp
Why, you might ask? Because Western Periodization blows. The last 6 weeks aren’t that bad, but spending that much time away from heavy weight (the first 2 blocks) saps my strength crazy-fast.
Thanks guys! I’m a strength coach and writer (I work for one of those big certification companies - gasp!), so it’s good to get out of my little box and see what others have to say.
Ike - just curious, have you actually tried the program or are you basing your opinion on reading the exercise prescription? I passed over it the first time I read through it many moons ago, but like I said, it’s good to hear what someone else has to say.
Thanks again - great insight!
Unlike Ike I’ve never lost strength while doing these routines, I’ve always jumped tremendously in strength and size.
The first block or two are meant to fix any possible imbalances and to hit the muscles a little differently than typical especially if you use only a few specefic exercises. I’ve actually noticed really good results from the first few blocks of training routines alone which is why I continued to use them apart from the 12wk. approach. The only way that you won’t notice some descent gains from these routines is if you have already incorporated bits and pieces into your routine before. King’s routines approach gains from an entirely different direction than traditional approaches which is why they are effective.
BUT…
I want to point out that I don’t beleive following all of Kings various routines all the time is a good idea just as Ike was probably leaning to. Commit to the 12 wk. programs, make some good gains, then put them away for a year or so.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I would not make King’s training ideas a mainstay…(Ike, maybe back me up…) but a good addition every few months/years to your training.
Make sure you check out EDT and OVT training though! EDT especially!
Yeah, I’ve been reading T-mag since the days of Dangerously Hardcore. I’ve done both EDT and OVT for a short period of time. I wasn’t a big fan of EDT though. I know I’m not the only one, but I am definitely in the minority. I actually have Charles Staley’s old job, so I have a lot of his old articles, which are also good. I think he’s a great strength coach, but EDT just wasn?t my thing.
I sustained a dislocated shoulder playing sports, so I focused on my own rehab program. I’m just looking to try something from someone else. I don?t lie to myself and think I know everything. There are a lot of great ideas out there and it’s great to get feedback from other strength athletes and coaches.
Agathos - for yourself personally, what is your goal and what has been your favorite program? Just curious.
Ike - although I very rarely post, I read yours quite a bit and respect what you have to say.
ND - Are you following any particular diet? You mentioned massive eating, but are you speaking of Berardi?s advice?
Used the 12 week “limping” programs. Got zero size or strength. Others might, I dunno, but I did not.
My goal has mainly been to look good naked! Don’t take that as I’m passing off your question, that’s really what I am after, what I mean is that my goals can’t really be classified as gaining size, leaning up, or building strenth. I’m really not too concerned with overall “size” and although strength is not a goal I do defenitely get a feeling of accomplishment when I get to add a few plates to the bar in my routines. I’m naturally lean with good genetics and I guess I’m in a perpetual state of tweaking y’know…
…that sound kinda dumb but it’s hard to explainm, anyway…
As far as my training goes to support this “lack of a term for my goal” I really just do a lot of diversity, for instance I’ll do the first few weeks of a King program, a week of OVT, 4 wks. EDT, Meltdown Training, 7:00 Yo Trainer You Call It Training, maybe some sprints here, etc.
One thing I beleive strongly in though is that if I do set a temporary goal (12wk. or so) to either build mass or lean up that there are a lot of programs from a lot of coaches that are really good. The key is to pick one and to stick with it for at LEAST 6-8 wks. (an ex. for me would be completion of Kings routines). That’s the only way that you really see full potential results of these programs as their designers had in mind. I know full well that’s why I’ve never made significant gains or losses with a program (again this isn’t my goal) is because I never stick to them for over 6wks.
Hope this makes sense, it’s kind of hard for me to explain my thinking…
I’ve tried the 12 week program from Ian King’s book, and I have to say I’m not that impressed. King has some really great ideas, but I doubt he uses these types of programs on his athletes. Simply put, linear periodization blows.
Hypertrophy with minimal strength gains is what I get, not that I care about strength (as Goldberg bites through a table)
oh yes, forgot, I did all his programs.
These programs are Ian’s “Get Buffed” series and they are intended for the average gym rat who does little in terms of variety and little to resolve strength/structural imbalances. The programs work by solving these issues, but they won’t be as successful for those who are already “proffecient” in these areas. Ian takes more of a long-term outlook on the training of an “individual”. He is very strong-minded on this particular point. He doesn’t like to create programs for a specific sport, say football. He also doesn’t like to create programs for a particular position for a sport, say Offensive Lineman in football. He likes to create programs for a particular Offensive Lineman based on the needs of that particular individual, not on the needs of his position per se. This is what made Ian King so successful and popular. When asked to put together a generalized program, he did the best he could to deal with the most common problems he found in most trainees’ programs, and in that way I feel these programs were a success. If you read more of his material, partake in his seminars and videos, you will see that he does not use “Western Periodization” with his programs and in fact was probably one of the first in the Western world to take a diagonal approach to periodization. If the “Get Buffed” programs haven’t appealed to you because of these issues stated above, you might want to consider getting into more of Ian’s “serious” work. Don’t judge him solely, or dismiss his other work, based on these One-For-All Prorams.
When I refered to eating massive I meant following JB’s guidlines. We all know eating lots of shit doesn’t get you anywhere. But I didn’t get optimal gains when being at maintanence or slightly above calorically. You should be packing in a lot I think.
Agathos: Your right about not using King’s programs outside of the twelve weeks (at least not per the letter). But he writes about that in the articles themselves.
DHolt you’re in the SB too? Sweet. I didn’t know there were other T-mag readers here. Not to high jack this thread, but where do you work out?
I have had some success with King’s programs but for the past year I have following Bryan Haycock;s HST protocols and have had the best results ever…and I have been training about 40 years. King, in my revamped opinion, depends a bit too much on isolation movements. I now stick to multi joint movements and train each bodypart three times per week.
Got good strength gains from Ian King stuff and a nice change.
A similar philosophy but Oly based is the Canadian Ascending Descending program here
CT’s next book is on this program.
I just finished up the “Limping” and “Super Strength” programs, and I was very happy with my results on the program. I gained 10 lbs and made significant strength gains in every lift. I thought the length of the workouts was perfect and I liked the way they were structured. I’ve never experienced DOMS like I did on this program, so watch out. The only unfortunate thing during the final week of the final stage of the program. The day after my bench workout, I felt completely weak. I tried to make it through the final squat workout, but got pinned to the floor several times during warmups and called it a day. I figure this is some overtraining thing, so I’m taking a week off before I start a new program. All in all, I give it an A+.
-RM
Anderson: I’ll send you a private message regarding Santa Barbara.
I did Ian King?s Limping and Super Strength together last summer/fall. It was so different from anything I?d done before (the one-legged stuff especially) that it left me really sore and wondering what I?d gotten myself into. I agree with others that you need to do the whole 12 weeks to really see what progress you?ll make. I made strength and size gains. It was progress that I hadn?t made in many years. Ian King?s workouts take a lot of thought (tempo prescriptions!) and focus and I wouldn?t enjoy doing them year after year. But I think they were successful for me last year and I?ll consider using them, or some of his other workouts, in the future.
I also learned that BTN presses are NOT for me, lol, and that in the future I?ll press in front of the neck. I just don?t have the flexibility to perform the exercise properly.
Lisa