Stupid Arguments & Recommendations

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
No, but apparently comprehending what a pyramid means in bb’ing is too difficult for you, even with visual aids.

Or more likely, it really isn’t a comprehension problem, but a stubbornness problem. [/quote]

I’ve already said you’re probably correct when you said 1 in 1000 wouldn’t see it my way. Yup, I’m real stubborn. Somehow you’re still harping on this.

[quote]And that’s okay. It’s your right to believe whatever you want, and when someone is talking about pyramiding – and almost undoubtedly meaning only going up in weight and down in reps – you’re free to understand the word as meaning also going back down in weight, and if you wish to take his advice, to do double of what he had in mind. Or to reject his advice on it seeming like too many sets, according to your non-standard comprehension of the word.

It’s your business who you choose to learn from. Hey, if you want to believe that “extensions” means “curls” or any sort of thing that is totally your right. I am not offended by that at all. I think your choice of source on this one is extremely poor, but it’s your business, for sure.[/quote]

All semantics, I really don’t give a poop what you or I call the exercises I do. I know what muscles they are working and that’s all I give a poop about.

[quote]However, it’s a little ironic because your arguing on this is, I would expect in the eyes of most, a fitting example of a stupid argument.

Wrong by definition is as wrong as you can get, and you’re wrong by definition. End of story. Stupid argument. We’re all dumber for your having claimed and contined to argue that the meaning of the word “pyramid” has, according to you based on an erroneous post you read here, changed with time.[/quote]

Yup, keep arguing a point I’ve already conceded because you got butthurt when I claimed you’re not helping the vast majority of this site with your charts and graphs. Shit, you’ve even started a thread asking the people of this site if you should change the way you write. Many people in that thread even admitted to skipping over your posts.

Up to this point I have not been one to skip your posts because I understand you’re well respected around here, and you’re obviously intelligent. But, now that I’ve realized how unnecessarily complicated you make things, I’m on board with the others who skip your posts. I’m tired of reading all of the theoretical nonsense you continuously spew on these boards.

I’m quite sure you don’t care, and I don’t, either, so let’s just make happy and go our separate ways, eh?

No loss to me. Feel free, for sure.

It’s obvious you, unlike many, failed to at any time get a thing out of what I have written, so indeed why should you read what I write. Fortunately the site has an Ignore feature. Employ it, please, and then no one will have to read your responses to my posts such as you’ve written in this thread, which were an utter waste of everyone’s time, and – rather fittingly given the title of this thread – the very epitome of a stupid argument.

As to your emotion-based allegations of why I responded as I have to your insistence that it was supposedly incorrect to think that the meaning of the word “pyramid” hasn’t changed, they are as wrong as your assertions on the meaning, and as wrong as your assertions that I routinely, or even remotely frequently, post charts and graphs.

Really, your writing no further responses to my posts will be no loss to anyone. So hopefully you will keep your word.

I always though a pyramid was something like 10,8,6,4 while increasing the weight as the reps drop.

And a reverse pyramid was the same thing in reverse 4,6,8,10 with the weight going down.

The name is actually pretty confusing though. Because I’d expect it to be 4,6,8,6,4 or soemthing similar.

Also, isn’t ramping really the same as pyramiding except you typically try to keep the reps the same for WORKING SETS. So in a sense, pyramiding would be a form or ramping where the reps per set change.

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

I have to question his true desire to get big if he gets bored with training since those that are serious about this don’t look at training as entertainment.

Serious training is usually incredibly hard. I go into the gym as if on a mission to stimulate a response in my body. It never crosses my mind whether the training is boring.

It’s obvious that your buddy is more interested in doing fun stuff than serious training, which actually supports my point.[/quote]

I read this when I left work, and have been mulling it over in my head for a few hours.

Dude this shit is so weird, lol.

I mean my body hurts. My right elbow burns, my right knee and below is FUBAR, my left shoulder is torched. I get fucking nervous as hell before my top sets, and at times, legit scared of them. Getting bigger, making progress is hard. I bust ass, my dick shrivels, sweat drips and my head spins. This isn’t easy, and from the micro perspective, often disappointing.

BUT

I like it. I look forward to going to the gym. I fucking plan my day around doing this shit to myself. I wear the grimace of pain when I extend my arm proudly.

I have to imagine other people feel the same…

So, generally, are we just weird people? Are we sadistic freaks?

No lifting isn’t entertainment, but at the same time it is.

Am I just going full retard here?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
HK24719 wrote:

I have to question his true desire to get big if he gets bored with training since those that are serious about this don’t look at training as entertainment.

Serious training is usually incredibly hard. I go into the gym as if on a mission to stimulate a response in my body. It never crosses my mind whether the training is boring.

It’s obvious that your buddy is more interested in doing fun stuff than serious training, which actually supports my point.

I read this when I left work, and have been mulling it over in my head for a few hours.

Dude this shit is so weird, lol.

I mean my body hurts. My right elbow burns, my right knee and below is FUBAR, my left shoulder is torched. I get fucking nervous as hell before my top sets, and at times, legit scared of them. Getting bigger, making progress is hard. I bust ass, my dick shrivels, sweat drips and my head spins. This isn’t easy, and from the micro perspective, often disappointing.

BUT

I like it. I look forward to going to the gym. I fucking plan my day around doing this shit to myself. I wear the grimace of pain when I extend my arm proudly.

I have to imagine other people feel the same…

So, generally, are we just weird people? Are we sadistic freaks?

No lifting isn’t entertainment, but at the same time it is.

Am I just going full retard here?[/quote]

No Bill, may I call you Bill, you have not. I’ve wondered time to time if the people who are in this game for years and lift for lifting’s sake have a little bit of a masochistic streak in them.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
HK24719 wrote:

I have to question his true desire to get big if he gets bored with training since those that are serious about this don’t look at training as entertainment.

Serious training is usually incredibly hard. I go into the gym as if on a mission to stimulate a response in my body. It never crosses my mind whether the training is boring.

It’s obvious that your buddy is more interested in doing fun stuff than serious training, which actually supports my point.

I read this when I left work, and have been mulling it over in my head for a few hours.

Dude this shit is so weird, lol.

I mean my body hurts. My right elbow burns, my right knee and below is FUBAR, my left shoulder is torched. I get fucking nervous as hell before my top sets, and at times, legit scared of them. Getting bigger, making progress is hard. I bust ass, my dick shrivels, sweat drips and my head spins. This isn’t easy, and from the micro perspective, often disappointing.

BUT

I like it. I look forward to going to the gym. I fucking plan my day around doing this shit to myself. I wear the grimace of pain when I extend my arm proudly.

I have to imagine other people feel the same…

So, generally, are we just weird people? Are we sadistic freaks?

No lifting isn’t entertainment, but at the same time it is.

Am I just going full retard here?[/quote]

Nah, I’m right there with ya, right now, lifting is the hardest and most enjoyable thing I do.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
HK24719 wrote:

I have to question his true desire to get big if he gets bored with training since those that are serious about this don’t look at training as entertainment.

Serious training is usually incredibly hard. I go into the gym as if on a mission to stimulate a response in my body. It never crosses my mind whether the training is boring.

It’s obvious that your buddy is more interested in doing fun stuff than serious training, which actually supports my point.

I read this when I left work, and have been mulling it over in my head for a few hours.

Dude this shit is so weird, lol.

I mean my body hurts. My right elbow burns, my right knee and below is FUBAR, my left shoulder is torched. I get fucking nervous as hell before my top sets, and at times, legit scared of them. Getting bigger, making progress is hard. I bust ass, my dick shrivels, sweat drips and my head spins. This isn’t easy, and from the micro perspective, often disappointing.

BUT

I like it. I look forward to going to the gym. I fucking plan my day around doing this shit to myself. I wear the grimace of pain when I extend my arm proudly.

I have to imagine other people feel the same…

So, generally, are we just weird people? Are we sadistic freaks?

No lifting isn’t entertainment, but at the same time it is.

Am I just going full retard here?[/quote]

I’m right there with you. I’ve tried to explain what I do and why I do it to non weight trainers … they just don’t get it.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

So, generally, are we just weird people? Are we sadistic freaks?
[/quote]

To the average Joe, we are. It’s just one of those things we can’t explain to people who don’t partake in it.

I hurt my wrist about 2 weeks ago and I literally felt anxiety about not going back the gym. Ironically the very same place where I injured myself. Today my coworker walked into my office to invite me to lunch as I was wrapping my wrist getting ready for an afternoon session at the gym. He couldn’t understand why I was so eager to go back to the same place where I got injured. I’ve given up trying to explain this shit because it’s just not logical when you think about it. But then again, nothing I enjoy is so it’s a perfect for me.

And what about the guys who get bored with same workouts? I may do the same sets of exercises week after week but it’s never the same workout. As long as the intensity and the challenge of crushing the weights that kicked my ass the week before, I’ll never get bored of it.

I think it’s natural for terminology to change over a period of decades. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but to expect weight lifting terminology to stay the same for the rest of eternity is ridiculous, it just won’t happen.

This is not limited to weight lifting, either. Most industry speak and most activities will have different terminology 30 years from now.

In the end, I agree. It would be much better if all of the terminology stayed the same, it would help everyone be on the same page. But it is semantics, and to expect it to stay the same is a little naive.[/quote]

Yeah! Today I’m gonna do CNS partials, half rampated in triangle sets with spaz reps.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
countingbeans wrote:

So, generally, are we just weird people? Are we sadistic freaks?

To the average Joe, we are. It’s just one of those things we can’t explain to people who don’t partake in it.

[/quote]

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

I’m right there with you. I’ve tried to explain what I do and why I do it to non weight trainers … they just don’t get it.[/quote]

It’s funny I had that conversation/fight with my wife. She freaked out one day and I had to do damage control. Looking back, I can see why she tweeked. I had Icyhot all over my shoulder, been limping on my knee for a week and was bloated and sweating my ass off. I looked like a mess. And was going back to the gym. She lost her shit. LOL. She even started with the “high protein diets are bad for your kidneys” shit. (Sometimes Google is a bad thing.)

the more I train, the more I realize that as long as you are training hard, the most important thing is how much food you are shoving down your throat.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

It’s funny I had that conversation/fight with my wife. She freaked out one day and I had to do damage control. Looking back, I can see why she tweeked. I had Icyhot all over my shoulder, been limping on my knee for a week and was bloated and sweating my ass off. I looked like a mess. And was going back to the gym. She lost her shit. LOL. She even started with the “high protein diets are bad for your kidneys” shit. (Sometimes Google is a bad thing.)[/quote]

I couldn’t agree more

I love how my kinesiology and physiology professors try teaching shit they pull up from Wiki and Google. I laugh at their face when they tell me things like: “McDonald’s will make you fat indefinitely, because the calories are different than from healthy foods.”
Of course the high protein diet being bad for you is brought up time and time again…

Pretty funny how mainstream “health and fitness” propaganda has regressed what should be common knowledge.

/rant

The high protein idiocy was around long before Wikipedia and Google.

For example, I had a doctor “inform” me that I had kidney disease, on knowing nothing but the fact that my body temperature was and had been abnormally low and upon her asking me about my diet.

I am sure I was using Alta Vista back then (Google may have existed but if so wasn’t common) and if Wikipedia existed, it wasn’t known to me.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The high protein idiocy was around long before Wikipedia and Google.

For example, I had a doctor “inform” me that I had kidney disease, on knowing nothing but the fact that my body temperature was and had been abnormally low and upon her asking me about my diet.

I am sure I was using Alta Vista back then (Google may have existed but if so wasn’t common) and if Wikipedia existed, it wasn’t known to me.[/quote]

Damn it… That means it has be around for quite awhile, and its not going anywhere

I dont want to let this thread die. There are still too many stupid things to argue about.

Here’s my take on a few things. I now am thinking that its not about “things that matter” and “things that dont matter” but instead its about not looking at things under a microscope and instead LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE. There are A TON of variables that play a role in success and as long as they are all taken care of reasonably, results should be good. (Kinda a lousy statement but its true)

There are all of thes things that may or may not matter, for example, casein vs. whey. Someone might ask questions about which one to use or timing, but then you look at their diet and its complete crap and and like 1000calories less than they should be eating. FOR THIS PERSON it doesn’t matter and they need to look at the bigger picture.

I also think if you go about things in a REASONABLE MANNER your efforts will take you very far, and you probably wont ever need to worry about these “things that dont matter”.

For example, DIET: As long as you are not defficient any any nutrients, macronutrients or micronutrients, etc. the biggest, most important factor is going to be calorie intake. If you are trying to build muscle, and are taking in 300g of protein, but are still at a 500 calorie deficit you aren’t going to grow. I dont think any macro nutrient ratios; WITHIN REASON will produce noticeable differences. 40/30/30, 40/40/20 etc. as long as its within reason its probably not going to matter. So you can basically figure out how much you NEED of each macro, add a bit just to be safe, and then disperse the rest of your calories how you’d like. Now sure, you cant just throw in an extra 1000 calories of sugar and think its not going to have an effect. You have to be REASONABLE.

I think training is a bit more complex, but I agree with many of the points GG made in the first post. I dont think research can lead you to a lot of those conclusions as being CONCLUSIVE but nothing really crazy was suggested.

For training, I think looking at the bigger picture is also very important. Because one set to failure may be a safe bet, but if you are only training that muscle 2x per week, and doing few exercises and 5 reps, that one set may not be enough. (I think GG alluded to this).

So there are some generalities that you can use to figure out how you should go about your training.

  1. Recognize the relationships between volume, intensity, frequency.

And I’d even throw intensiveness and failure in there as well. They are all inversely related to eachother and its a pretty complex relationship.

  1. Autoregulation - I actually think this is pretty important, but hard to describe. Basically the way I see it is, whatever program you set up based on #1, doesn’t matter if you cant progress. By the processes of autoregulation, you figure out how to modify and adapt your training so that you can make progress and grow.

Ex: Say you are training 5x per week. Maybe some form of split, and are hitting each muslce 2-3x per week. And lets say you are doing quite a few exercises for each muscle group. If you were to do anything more than ONE set to failure, you’d likely not be able to progress. But on a very similar program, lets say you are only doing a few exercises for each muscle group, then this might necessitate more sets to failure in some way.

EX2: You are training with sets of 5. One set to failure may just not be enough volume for you to progress by the next workout. This would be especially true if you were more of a newb, as you wouldn’t be able to get much out of one set of five. But, maybe you are training many exercises, or training that same movement every other day. Then the one set might be warranted.

I think the one set to failure or “max” principle is pretty cool and might start trying it. I can see that if you are going to only do one set, that a bit higher reps makes sense (10-15) and maybe if you are going to do a few sets and only push the last one or two, then lower reps (5-10) makes sense.

One thing I might try, is after my “main” lift, rather than doing a few exercises and ramping to a max and performing working sets near that max, I might perform ONE set to failure for a few variations to work the different muscles invovled.

EX: Bench press (main lift)
DB shoulder press 1x10
Low incline press 1x10
decline 1x10
triceps 1x10

Just a thought.

So if everything is done WITHIN REASON, and you learn to autoregulate, you should progress fairly consistently and eventually reach the point where training is more complicated and WITHIN REASON isn’t enough.

****Now I know the mentality of a lot of newbs. And I MAY be considered one myself; at least by a lot of member here, and that mentality goes something like this. “Well if a higher level bodybuilder needs to focus on these things down to the smallest detail, then certainly it must have an effect.” The newbs will think that a “basic” program and diet is somehow shortchanging them, because if they focus on all the little things theyll get better results. And to an extent this is corret. BUT, the ‘BIGGER PICTURE’ approach where you keep things basic will pretty much get you 95% of the way there. All those little things CAN get you the other 5% but the 95% is much more important. AND, when a newb starts to focus on the little things, they ALWAYS tend to ignore the ‘big picture’ because they think the little things are more important.

Those are my views. They may be wrong, so lets hear some of those arguments.