So I guess the end of the 5/3/1 journey and the goal of a 600lb DL? Get in where you fit in bro, these past few posts has even gotten me thinking about my training goals as I get older. My body isnt responding the way it used to, and while I do not have the weight and injury history as you do, they are starting to pile up…at this point my heart is still winning, but my brain is starting to catch up so to speak.
^ Still have goal of 500 DL and Squat, BUT my plan has just changed to take it longer. Guy that works out at the CF gym and has become a friend, is about 5’8" 185 pounds and pulled 405 the other day. Now he has not done a serious or consistent PL routine for a couple of years. But his BF% and gut are down so for my goals I can still reach them just from a different angle. 5/3/1 is great and learned a lot from it and will come back to it next year.
my bad I meant 500
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
my bad I meant 500[/quote]
I would love 600 but I have to be realistic with my back man, three herniated discs just not going to happen.
DUDES!
Yeah, the balance. I think I found it when I was advised (read: forced under threat of physical violence) that training like a powerlifter would improve my progress in bodybuilding. I think a lot of you strength junkies would benefit from training like a bodybuilder for a while.
Meaning:
- NOT constantly pursuing the 1RM each and every damned workout
- adding high volume at lower weight, both to give the joints a break, and train the muscle in a different way. Training the exact same way year after year is always going to offer diminishing returns.
- Focusing on getting leaner, just for the general health.
I had the honot of having dinner with John Berardi last weekend. He was talking about how in fitness whenever there are two opposing camps, they tend to hate each other and define themselves in terms of how they are NOT the other group. And yet both groups see results. It means that there is a larger truth that is greater than either side, that encompasses both.
Food for thought.
I’m not intending to be preachy, but the whole psychology around training and why we do what we do is an area of huge interest to me. I wrote a series of essays/editorials for the “other” site I belong to that I’m going to copy here because they sound really relevant.
WHATEVER YOU HATE THE MOST, YOU NEED IT
The fitness life can suck sometimes. All that weight lifting sucks. Watching what you eat all the time sucks. NOT eating junk food sucks. And then, once you start actually making gains, you have to work even HARDER and lift MORE weight to keep making progress. That part really sucks.
Well I?m here to tell you that it?s normal to hate all this, but to suck it up and do it anyway. In fact, I?m telling you to seek out the stuff you hate (whether it?s exercise or food).
I know what you?re thinking?
?Why, K, do you hate me so much? You?ve never even met me, you masochistic pig! If I want abuse like this I?ll go talk to my spouse/partner/parents!?
Wow, are you ever sensitive. But it really makes sense. Relax and hear me out.
If you hate doing heavy squats, you will avoid doing them. After many years of avoiding them, you likely have sub-optimal leg strength and development. If you were to suddenly start doing heavy squats you would see rapid improvements in strength and size.
Why? Because it?s something NEW. Your body hasn?t experienced it before, and so will be forced to adapt.
It?s the same with food. If you hate vegetables, and refuse to eat them, your body is in a sub-optimal place. If you start eating veggies, you can expect things to change for the better, because suddenly your muscles are being flooded with all these vitamins, minerals, and anti-oxidants it wasn?t getting before (by the way, if you?re a devout carnivore and you think you?re covering the deficit with pills and supplements, You’re deluding yourself. Don’t bother posting otherwise, I don?t want to hear it).
Whatever you hate doing is probably what you most need. The very fact you?re avoiding it means its lacking from your fitness program. It represents a barrier to your progress that you are allowing to be there! How stupid is that?!?!?
At some point you?ve got to stop moaning about how much you hate this. Everyone hates diet and exercise. The people with the beautiful bodies airbrushed and greased up on the cover of fitness magazines hate it too. NO ONE likes eating dry chicken and rice when there?s chocolate praline ice cream to be eaten. NO ONE likes doing heavy squats. NO ONE likes jogging until their lungs are ready to spontaneously erupt into flame.
We all hate at least some (if not most) of the demands of this fitness journey. You?re not the least bit unique in that regard. It also doesn?t entitle you to any special sympathy. This is harsh, but true. The people with the beautiful bodies didn?t get there by accident or by ?genetics? (what an overused excuse that is). They got there because they worked at it. Hard. And they hated it.
B L A S P H E M Y !
I will do 1 RM max every damned session LOL!
Seriously I have always taken ideals from both camps, and we have joked on DJ’s and my log about being powerbuilders. Honestly I have always used the main lift of the day for pure strength and heavy assistance work for hypertrophy and tweaking body parts, I still dont understand why isolation movements are so villified by so many, when in conjunction with multi joint movements, I think its a perfect combination.
^ Nice, and couldnt agree more. After being in medicine for almost 20 years I have seen the real world results of the human body and response to outside stimuli. Example take two brothers, both have hypertension, one can take medicine X and keep his blood pressure down the other brother Med X doesnt do shit.
Same could be said for diet and exercise, there is never ONE to rule them all. If you do just one you end up breaking down, I do think you have to rotate and do the things you hate to do.
I hate jump ropes, sit-ups, pull-ups, box jumps and power cleans. Why? cause I cant do a ton of weight and I cant do as many reps as I see other people do them. I love to do the big 4 why? Cause I can move a decent weight and I love the feeling of that 1 rep max. But like I have said this is breaking me down.
So what am I doing right now for at least the next 6 months? CF with jump ropes, sit-ups, pull-ups, box jumps and power cleans. Why? Cause I hate them but I need them. After 6 months I will not hate them, it will just be another exercise in my arsenal. At that point I can sit and devise a program that I can rotate every 3 months throughout the year. To stay strong, healthy and mobile.
Matty I know, you and I have discussed this. Isolation is looked down upon because beginners want to just do them and not compound.
You just need to keep doing what you are doing, clean up your diet in all honesty you would trim up thats all you need in my opinion. Your a fucking beast and making gains with no injuries.
[quote]
So what am I doing right now for at least the next 6 months? CF with jump ropes, sit-ups, pull-ups, box jumps and power cleans. Why? Cause I hate them but I need them. After 6 months I will not hate them, it will just be another exercise in my arsenal. At that point I can sit and devise a program that I can rotate every 3 months throughout the year. To stay strong, healthy and mobile. [/quote]
I’d argue that you’ve already done that without sitting down to do it. 
I believe your body usually tells you what it needs; it’s just a matter of whether you want to listen or not. You seem to be listening.
[quote]ddot76 wrote:
[quote]
So what am I doing right now for at least the next 6 months? CF with jump ropes, sit-ups, pull-ups, box jumps and power cleans. Why? Cause I hate them but I need them. After 6 months I will not hate them, it will just be another exercise in my arsenal. At that point I can sit and devise a program that I can rotate every 3 months throughout the year. To stay strong, healthy and mobile. [/quote]
I’d argue that you’ve already done that without sitting down to do it.
I believe your body usually tells you what it needs; it’s just a matter of whether you want to listen or not. You seem to be listening.[/quote]
X2 Bro you have been doing the CF style sessions for a while now, you already got the 5/3/1 PL style down pat.
^ Yea, unfortunately I am one of those knuckle dragging set in stone all or nothing type of people. I was talking to my uncle on my vacation, between growing up watching Arnold, Sly and others this uncle was my constant inspiration to want to be muscular. Now he is in his early 50’s not horrible out of shape, but has lost a lot of the definition he used to have.
We were discussing about lifting and he was saying basically he has to get back into it, and he needs the mobility and flexibility etc. However he was saying that its hard not to do a body part split and want to hit it hard and heavy. We both have been doing it for so long that you just cant admit to yourself that we are not 20 years old any more. Cant Squat, DL and bench with all the accessory work 7 days a week (forget the fact who has the fucking time to lift like we used to).
Sorry for all the long rambling posts and ranting. Just looking for some validation and confirmation I guess.
[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ Yea, unfortunately I am one of those knuckle dragging set in stone all or nothing type of people. I was talking to my uncle on my vacation, between growing up watching Arnold, Sly and others this uncle was my constant inspiration to want to be muscular. Now he is in his early 50’s not horrible out of shape, but has lost a lot of the definition he used to have.
We were discussing about lifting and he was saying basically he has to get back into it, and he needs the mobility and flexibility etc. However he was saying that its hard not to do a body part split and want to hit it hard and heavy. We both have been doing it for so long that you just cant admit to yourself that we are not 20 years old any more. Cant Squat, DL and bench with all the accessory work 7 days a week (forget the fact who has the fucking time to lift like we used to).
Sorry for all the long rambling posts and ranting. Just looking for some validation and confirmation I guess. [/quote]
QFT
It’s nice to see these opinions from guys I respect. Like K mentioned the two camps are usually divided (I’ve done this too).
There is something to be said for changing things up, as stated, it gets looked down on because of newbies who program hop but us older guys who are starting to get banged up would greatly bennifit from a change. I’ve run 5/3/1 for the better part of 2 years now maybe some high rep GPP stuff is what my body craves (like electrolites).
Good discussion y’all.
Yeah thats on point Dday, I think my body craves it as well, like my body craves Snickers and Italian Bread LOL! not at the same time of course, though a snickers sandwich may be pretty tasty
Dday on this vacation went hiking with the wife I think made me thankful for doing more cardio/circuit training for the last 6 months. Last summer if I tried this I would have had to quit or would have died.
Matty I never crave sweets, but man bread and tortilla’s are my downfall. (Beside beer)
You two crack me up. I was going to run the heavy triples that James does but after this discussion maybe take the rest of summer to do some serious GPP/BB type stuff…decisions.
Sorry to derail your thread DJ.
I am only here to fuck up DJ’s log!
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
B L A S P H E M Y !
I will do 1 RM max every damned session LOL!
Seriously I have always taken ideals from both camps, and we have joked on DJ’s and my log about being powerbuilders. Honestly I have always used the main lift of the day for pure strength and heavy assistance work for hypertrophy and tweaking body parts, I still dont understand why isolation movements are so villified by so many, when in conjunction with multi joint movements, I think its a perfect combination.[/quote]
Most likely its because when you go to the gym you see tons of guys doing nothing but iso stuff, taking up space, and never improving.
I changed my 5/3/1 around so that my day one is all one compound and then a bunch of high rep db and hammer strength work. I breaks up the week, isn’t hard on my recovery, and feeds my crazy idea that I might get jacked one day.
Hold up, so are you squatting, benching and DLing in one session?