[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Arlovski was washed up? He had five wins behind him, including Werdum, Nelson & Rothwell.
This is silly…
[/quote]
Yes. He was washed up and that list isn’t that impressive.
Go ahead and hug his nuts. I like Fedor but he hasn’t been fighting the best for years.
OK, so now we pretty much can declare anyone a can just like this. (…I say Silva’s a tomatocan. And GSP!) Not a way to ensure a fruitful conversation.
But really, what contenders were in the UFC?
Mir, Lesnar, Couture and Carwin are all ok but not necessarily better then the likes of Arlovski, Rogers, Barnett, Sylvia etc.
Apart from JDS and Velasquez, Strikeforce has recruited even better heavies in the GP. And it’s not like Fedor deliberately dodged Barnett, who’s btw part of that great tournement.
Yeah, it sucks for us fans that not all guys fight freely under one roof and are never injured.
Okay, after watching the fight…
…the victory feels cheap with a stoppage like that. It would have been one thing if Fedor couldn’t stand, or verbally submitted between rounds. I don’t see a swollen eye as match ending. Saying he can’t fight with one eye is like saying there’s a rule against one-eyed guys going in the cage.
I had the fight one round each at that point.
This Fedor-nuthugger gave the second round 10-8 to the Giant.
Yeah the victory through doc’s stop kinda was suboptimal, but the beating truly was out of this world.
Can anyone think of Lesnar going through this, or Carwin?
BTW, I’m not trying to belittle them, Lesnar is a powerful mutant and Carwin has fists of Iron, and both could improve quite a bit, but surviving that 2nd round was an astonishing feat.
As a conclusionary nuthug, let me say that prime Fedor would never have been taken down with that surprise double leg.
vids of all the fights
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Bret Rogers is no champ, so is Carwin.
Fedor fought Arlovski and Sylvia who were champs at that time. Clearly, he could have faced stronger opposition if not for business politics. That’s a no brainer. But that’s an old story found in martial arts generally.
And if Fedor had it easy, Lesnar’s (Mir? Carwin? Couture?!? ) “title run” was a picnic.
In MMA, for various reasons, champions do not have to fight solely other champions to be legitimate. Show me one champion who at his time fought ONLY the very best the world had to offer.
The “he ducked” myth is BS straight from Dana White’s mouth. Anyone looks foolish repeating it.
Don’t expect a heavyweight to surpass Fedor’s reign anytime soon. MMA, especially heavyweight, is not made for nearly a decade of domination. [/quote]
Arlovski and Sylvia were washed up chumps by the time Fedor got them.
I like Fedor as much as the next rational person but I see him for what he is. A talented but over the hill fighter that tried to protect his rep and maximize his payday. It is a story as old as the fight game.
Good to see the nut-huggery continue even after two losses. It will make for entertaining reading.[/quote]
No they were looking pretty decent at the time, Andrei was ranked 2 I believe. The Fedor fight was the start of his decline. Sylvia who knows he was good and now really sucks, he enters fights at 300 pounds.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
This Fedor-nuthugger gave the second round 10-8 to the Giant.
Yeah the victory through doc’s stop kinda was suboptimal, but the beating truly was out of this world.
Can anyone think of Lesnar going through this, or Carwin?
BTW, I’m not trying to belittle them, Lesnar is a powerful mutant and Carwin has fists of Iron, and both could improve quite a bit, but surviving that 2nd round was an astonishing feat.
As a conclusionary nuthug, let me say that prime Fedor would never have been taken down with that surprise double leg.[/quote]
When did Fedor ever have awesome takedowen D? Fedor showed up out of shape, and didn’t change his training up. He can still come back he hasn’t suffered a traumatic injury he isn’t too old. The only thing keeping him from rising back is his passion for the sport. And if he doesn’t have it he should retire.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
OK, so now we pretty much can declare anyone a can just like this. (…I say Silva’s a tomatocan. And GSP!) Not a way to ensure a fruitful conversation.
But really, what contenders were in the UFC?
Mir, Lesnar, Couture and Carwin are all ok but not necessarily better then the likes of Arlovski, Rogers, Barnett, Sylvia etc.
Apart from JDS and Velasquez, Strikeforce has recruited even better heavies in the GP. And it’s not like Fedor deliberately dodged Barnett, who’s btw part of that great tournement.
Yeah, it sucks for us fans that not all guys fight freely under one roof and are never injured.
[/quote]
I am not going to make the case that the UFC heavyweights have been stellar or that Lesnar didn’t have an quick journey to the title.
Just because I think Fedor carefully protected himself by not fighting the best at the time doesn’t make me a fanboy of the UFC’s heavyweight division.
I’m just curious… who was the “best” at the time that he should have been fighting instead. When he fought silva and arvloski there wasn’t anyone else for him to fight. After the Affliction fallout I can understand arguing that hes dodging people here and there… but in his position I probably wouldn’t have gone to UFC either purely because of dana whites character and how unprofessional he is with his position.(I guess it works… but it deosnt’ mean I have to agree with it)
I don’t see fedor as the top anymore but hes still my favorite fighter… if he chooses to continue fighting… I hope he changes up his training.
The only time I felt Fedor ducked anything was his last negotiations with the UFC.
The level wasn’t apparently high (no one knew for sure what Cain/Carwin/JDS would turn out to be), but it was a watering ground for most recognized HWs, as opposed to the clutter outside the org. When the aforementioned fighters did gain some traction in the div, that was when people really started throwing ducking accusations after the fact.
Him not signing with the UFC at the time had little to do with his dislike of BLAF and everything to do with his management trying to milk their cash cow. BLAF and co. are smart dudes. They likely realized there was a chance that Fedor would bomb out of contention like Mirko did and bailed based on the risk and M1s heighty demands. In hindsight, they were probably right (Fedor would have been put through a gauntlet from the get go).
[quote]Amiright wrote:
I’m just curious… who was the “best” at the time that he should have been fighting instead. When he fought silva and arvloski there wasn’t anyone else for him to fight. After the Affliction fallout I can understand arguing that hes dodging people here and there… but in his position I probably wouldn’t have gone to UFC either purely because of dana whites character and how unprofessional he is with his position.(I guess it works… but it deosnt’ mean I have to agree with it)
I don’t see fedor as the top anymore but hes still my favorite fighter… if he chooses to continue fighting… I hope he changes up his training. [/quote]
Sylvia and Arlovski were beaten out of the UFC and the UFC heavyweight picture was in transition. He could have stuck himself right in the middle of that mess and possibly walked out with the title.
Instead he beat a couple UFC ex-ehamps who have clearly lost their edge, a tire changer and then lost to a couple of guys everyone assumed he would beat.
Maybe he would have won the UFC belt, maybe he would have lost but he didn’t even want to risk it.
I still like him, he is one of the best ever.
I would like to see him actually get fit and train with the best. He still has a little time left if he really wants it. I just don’t think he does. Living in Russia and not speaking English I think he is shielded from so much of the debate about his legacy that he just doesn’t care and is very comfortable with his accomplishments. I don’t blame him.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only time I felt Fedor ducked anything was his last negotiations with the UFC.
The level wasn’t apparently high (no one knew for sure what Cain/Carwin/JDS would turn out to be), but it was a watering ground for most recognized HWs, as opposed to the clutter outside the org. When the aforementioned fighters did gain some traction in the div, that was when people really started throwing ducking accusations after the fact.
[/quote]
Yeah, that bothered me too. If you want to be considered the best then you really have to beat the best and the best HW’s are in the UFC. If you beat the top 3 or 4 guys in the UFC you are the best in the world. I heard many rumors about the money that he turned down from the UFC. There are many reasons to turn down a business deal, but if you want your legacy to be that you beat the best of your time you don’t do it by avoiding the UFC.
One more point on Fedor: I think he could still be highly competitive by cutting to 205. And judging by the way he looks he could do it fairly easily.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only time I felt Fedor ducked anything was his last negotiations with the UFC.
The level wasn’t apparently high (no one knew for sure what Cain/Carwin/JDS would turn out to be), but it was a watering ground for most recognized HWs, as opposed to the clutter outside the org. When the aforementioned fighters did gain some traction in the div, that was when people really started throwing ducking accusations after the fact.
[/quote]
Yeah, that bothered me too. If you want to be considered the best then you really have to beat the best and the best HW’s are in the UFC. If you beat the top 3 or 4 guys in the UFC you are the best in the world. I heard many rumors about the money that he turned down from the UFC. There are many reasons to turn down a business deal, but if you want your legacy to be that you beat the best of your time you don’t do it by avoiding the UFC.
One more point on Fedor: I think he could still be highly competitive by cutting to 205. And judging by the way he looks he could do it fairly easily.
[/quote]
This is stupid, at the time the UFC had Sylvia, Arlovski, Randy and Werdum as people Fedor had yet to beat. The resurrection of Mir, and the new crop of top heavies is a recent development. And lets face it HW is the weakest division there is across the board in mma.
Fedor is still Fedor. It is just that the heavyweight devision is no longer the same as it used to be. He is, by today’s standards not a true heavyweight. He get’s into the ring at 235lbs with 35lbs of fat on him and faces guys who are now 265lbs with abs. Don’t let your woman tell you different, SIZE MATTERS.
There have been plenty of big guys he has faced that simply did not have the skills so he could overpower them with his excellent skill set but the heavyweights of today all have decent to great skills and in that case the size difference is going to be important.
Doesn’t mean he would lose to every guy out there but he simply isn’t strong enough to get a big guy like Silva, Lesnar or Cain of him (we can debate if the latter two can get him down but if Silva could I am pretty sure that Lesnar and Cain could as well…if they can avoid getting their head knocked off, of course).
He would dominate the light heavyweight devision, I think, and should just drop the fat and compete at 205lbs.
I have always wondered why, with all that training, he is still fat, as compared to others.
His handlers have not done him any favors by shielding him from everybody.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Fedor is still Fedor. It is just that the heavyweight devision is no longer the same as it used to be. He is, by today’s standards not a true heavyweight. He get’s into the ring at 235lbs with 35lbs of fat on him and faces guys who are now 265lbs with abs. Don’t let your woman tell you different, SIZE MATTERS.
There have been plenty of big guys he has faced that simply did not have the skills so he could overpower them with his excellent skill set but the heavyweights of today all have decent to great skills and in that case the size difference is going to be important.
Doesn’t mean he would lose to every guy out there but he simply isn’t strong enough to get a big guy like Silva, Lesnar or Cain of him (we can debate if the latter two can get him down but if Silva could I am pretty sure that Lesnar and Cain could as well…if they can avoid getting their head knocked off, of course).
He would dominate the light heavyweight devision, I think, and should just drop the fat and compete at 205lbs.
I have always wondered why, with all that training, he is still fat, as compared to others.
His handlers have not done him any favors by shielding him from everybody.[/quote]
Cain Velasquez is 240 pounds, JDS is Fedor size.
No. Weight is not the same as size. Compare fat percentage and height. Fedor is a lot fatter. And because he is shorter he should really be improving his fat to muscle ratio.
That does not make your point invalid BUT Fedor will have trouble with very large guys who CAN take him down and keep him there (and not everybody can, i will certainly agree with you on that).
Again, I am not counting Fedor out BUT because of the situation in the heavy weight class I am now convinced that Fedor will no longer walk through the UFC heavyweight class simply because there are some large mutants in there who could possibly do the same as Silva did.
I believe he would be top 5 in heavyweight but in Light Heavyweight I think he would rule. We probably agree more then we disagree.
I disagree… hes been a heavyweight forever… he will not be able to compete at light heavy effectively. If he still wants to fight… he can be competitive at heavy as long as he changes up his training.
I don’t think he has the quickness etc… to hang with a lot of the light heavies(I’m a huge fedor fan… not trying to dog him… but his skill set is built around heavyweight). Not saying he wouldn’t do well… he’ll beat a number of the light heavies we have but I just think if he chooses to continue fighting he will still be most successful at heavyweight.
I understand where you are coming from however, the light heavies are bigger then ever as well so I think he would be right at home there. BUT like you pointed out, he has been there forever and has never lost the fat nor ever dieted down and re-hydrated. That might just be too much for him. Not easy to change your ways so you might be right.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only time I felt Fedor ducked anything was his last negotiations with the UFC.
The level wasn’t apparently high (no one knew for sure what Cain/Carwin/JDS would turn out to be), but it was a watering ground for most recognized HWs, as opposed to the clutter outside the org. When the aforementioned fighters did gain some traction in the div, that was when people really started throwing ducking accusations after the fact.
[/quote]
Yeah, that bothered me too. If you want to be considered the best then you really have to beat the best and the best HW’s are in the UFC. If you beat the top 3 or 4 guys in the UFC you are the best in the world. I heard many rumors about the money that he turned down from the UFC. There are many reasons to turn down a business deal, but if you want your legacy to be that you beat the best of your time you don’t do it by avoiding the UFC.
One more point on Fedor: I think he could still be highly competitive by cutting to 205. And judging by the way he looks he could do it fairly easily.
[/quote]
This is stupid, at the time the UFC had Sylvia, Arlovski, Randy and Werdum as people Fedor had yet to beat. The resurrection of Mir, and the new crop of top heavies is a recent development. And lets face it HW is the weakest division there is across the board in mma. [/quote]
Oh really? Mir beat Lesnar on February 2, 2008. The UFC was trying very hard to get Fedor to enter their organization through the first half of 2009, and even past the second Mir/Lesnar fight.
Get your facts straight. Fedor had his chance to fight the best in the world and declined. Why is anyone’s guess.