Strength Numbers for Wrestlers

[Classy_Cojones]

[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
t3h_Squirr3l wrote:
Orange, than you for that info. That’s what I was looking for.

A wrestler needs to have explosiveness and power more-so than pure strength like a powerlifter. Who is more explosive and athletic than an Olympic weightlifter ? Yet, I have seen an old Greco-Roman USA World’s team training manual. It had like 4x20 reps. Why ? Can anyone explain this to me ? At rep 12-15 out of 20, especially on fairly heavy squats, most people’s form goes to shit. Also on things like power cleans, there is scientific proof that going past 6 reps or so is not beneficial.

Cleans, high pulls, front squats, power snatches, overhead squats, millitary and push presses, jumping shrugs and so on (which are easy to learn compared to a full Oly lift with catch and all) with sets of like 8x2, 3x3, 5x5 or 10x3 would be a better.

This teaches explosive power because, well, you can’t NOT explode through a clean, for example. Also, you don’t lose the form and therefore compensate with the wrong muscle groups. In addition, 60 seconds of rest with a program like this is pretty fatiguing pretty quickly, endurence-wise, from personal experience.

These are just my ideas…being naturally strong and explosive plays a big role, no doubt.

The training parameters you mentioned would build more explosive power. But the training paramters they used with teh squat would develop killer muscular and anaerobic endurance, which is equally important in wrestling. In my experience, like you mentioned, high-level wrestlers are naturally very explosive and really benefit mroe from working on conditioning than pure strength.

Also, at the Olympic level I think all of the players have developed maximal strength to as high a level as would be beneficial. For example, I know a 133 lber that can bench 350. Benching 400 might not really benefit him on the mat, but developing even an even higher lactate threshold may.

With regards to the push-pulling, I think it might be about equal. It is likely that there is tremendous variety just based on past programming- I don’t think the ratio really makes a difference as long as you are damn strong either way.[/quote]

I’m going to have to ask you to reconsider that bench numer. That’s pretty much powerlifting world-record material.

[KombatAthlete]

[quote]Classy_Cojones wrote:
KombatAthlete wrote:
t3h_Squirr3l wrote:
Orange, than you for that info. That’s what I was looking for.

A wrestler needs to have explosiveness and power more-so than pure strength like a powerlifter. Who is more explosive and athletic than an Olympic weightlifter ? Yet, I have seen an old Greco-Roman USA World’s team training manual. It had like 4x20 reps. Why ? Can anyone explain this to me ? At rep 12-15 out of 20, especially on fairly heavy squats, most people’s form goes to shit. Also on things like power cleans, there is scientific proof that going past 6 reps or so is not beneficial.

Cleans, high pulls, front squats, power snatches, overhead squats, millitary and push presses, jumping shrugs and so on (which are easy to learn compared to a full Oly lift with catch and all) with sets of like 8x2, 3x3, 5x5 or 10x3 would be a better.

This teaches explosive power because, well, you can’t NOT explode through a clean, for example. Also, you don’t lose the form and therefore compensate with the wrong muscle groups. In addition, 60 seconds of rest with a program like this is pretty fatiguing pretty quickly, endurence-wise, from personal experience.

These are just my ideas…being naturally strong and explosive plays a big role, no doubt.

The training parameters you mentioned would build more explosive power. But the training paramters they used with teh squat would develop killer muscular and anaerobic endurance, which is equally important in wrestling. In my experience, like you mentioned, high-level wrestlers are naturally very explosive and really benefit mroe from working on conditioning than pure strength.

Also, at the Olympic level I think all of the players have developed maximal strength to as high a level as would be beneficial. For example, I know a 133 lber that can bench 350. Benching 400 might not really benefit him on the mat, but developing even an even higher lactate threshold may.

With regards to the push-pulling, I think it might be about equal. It is likely that there is tremendous variety just based on past programming- I don’t think the ratio really makes a difference as long as you are damn strong either way.

I’m going to have to ask you to reconsider that bench numer. That’s pretty much powerlifting world-record material. [/quote]

The 350 bench (it was actually 325 for 5) I mentioned was performed by the 133 lber a few years after he graduated. When he was actually wrestling 133 lbs I doubt it was that much, but the man is a physical specimen like you have never seen before.

Despite not wrestling in college anymore, he still physically abuses national-level NCAA wrestlers that are considerably bigger than him and when he wrestles he has an intensity that makes high-school All-Americans with 40 lbs on him not want to wrestle with him again. He currently walks at around 165 now putting up those numbers.

[KombatAthlete]

[quote]t3h_Squirr3l wrote:
Kombat Athlete,

Thanks for the reply and input. Lactate threshold training is a very good idea at a high level. However, for a low-level mofo such as myself I think strength and explosiveness are a good idea along with technique. Let the wrestling drills and scrimmages condition you, I say.

Bah, just my ideas. I dunno, weight lifting has really made me improve my wrestling because I can focus on my game instead of getting bullied by a guy who is stronger. [/quote]

I agree with you, although I think you will soon realize that there is a ceiling with regards to how much strength will help you. After a certain level of strength, it just becomes beneficial to work on things besides strength, such as speed and technique. The more you wrestle and the higher up the ladder you go the more you will realize how important speed is.

[copper0521]

kombat:
while i’ll agree that speed is important as you move up the ladder in wrestling (high school aa, div. III, div. II, div. I, international), i would argue that a much, much more important aspect is positioning. if you notice all of the olympic wrestler’s (especially russia and the former soviet countries), they all keep in incredibly good position. that is why it is so difficult to come back against opponents who keep good positioning, regardless of your speed.

sure, many of the great wrestler’s are incredibly quick (john smith, joe williams, tj williams, kerry mccoy, etc.), much more of their success comes from good positioning. joe williams and tj williams were/are freakishly difficult to take down. in the words of john smith himself, the best offense is a great defense.

as far as training goes, i feel that many/most wrestling programs do not train their wrestler’s optimally for strength and endurance. however, many of the top notch programs put their athletes through such insane workouts that they are extremely mentally tough, and in their minds, will never get tired.

[gmangerm]

i wrestled in high school and during that time i had taken 6th 2001 - 4th 2002- 2nd 2002- 1st 2004 in folkstyle between both freestyle and greco i had about 13-14 state championships…
and let me say i was arour 195-200 pounds and i benched 440, pulled 670, and squated 655, for 3 lift powerlifting total of 1765lbs.

plus i hold one of the highest point scored matches 26-28…my record for my senior year was around 32-4 folkstyle, 40-0 freestlye, 40-0 greco…so just to give you an idea i could have went on to wrestle for any college i wanted ,but decided to continue on powerlifting instead…