[quote]josh86 wrote:
You forgot the size part… “its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.”[/quote]
This is true to a point. This is because many larger people are NOT strong due to lack of training or not training at all. If one is sufficiently strong - they will always win the fight…even with extremely sub-par skill.
For instance I have trained in MMA for many years. The local gorilla at the zoo has not. Suffice it to say his Jui Jitsu skills are lacking. However, if he and I fought I am pretty sure he would kick my ass.
[quote]mmllcc wrote:
josh86 wrote:
You forgot the size part… “its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.”
This is true to a point. This is because many larger people are NOT strong due to lack of training or not training at all. If one is sufficiently strong - they will always win the fight…even with extremely sub-par skill.
For instance I have trained in MMA for many years. The local gorilla at the zoo has not. Suffice it to say his Jui Jitsu skills are lacking. However, if he and I fought I am pretty sure he would kick my ass.[/quote]
But he has natural instinct. His genetics have designed him to be big and fast, so he could win in a fight.
But, I do agree with your point. Once someone is big enough, there’s not much you could do.
“Let me see your war face”
“Aaahhhh”
“bullshit, you didn’t convince me and I bet you don’t have much upper body strength and I doubt your fighting ability, let me see your real war face”
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.[/quote]
I wouldn’t. In most cases, I wouldn’t have to fight.
The best outcome of a street fight is to avoid it in the first place. One of the basic premises of Martial Arts is the avoidance of conflict, not the daring of it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.
I wouldn’t. In most cases, I wouldn’t have to fight.
The best outcome of a street fight is to avoid it in the first place. One of the basic premises of Martial Arts is the avoidance of conflict, not the daring of it.[/quote]
Having someone overestimate your fighting ability is going to save you more trouble in the long run.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.
I wouldn’t. In most cases, I wouldn’t have to fight.
The best outcome of a street fight is to avoid it in the first place. One of the basic premises of Martial Arts is the avoidance of conflict, not the daring of it.
Having someone overestimate your fighting ability is going to save you more trouble in the long run.
[/quote]
What’s even better is my dad made sure I knew how to box long before I knew how to drive.
I think little people (as in wannabe MMA fighters who don’t compete) lately underestimating every big guy they see is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.
I would say that weight-training/being bigger helps when it comes to fighting untrained people (90% of the population). If you are fairly strong in the gym, chances are if you cranked someone in the face or tried to take them down onto the pavement, you could do it quite easily.
Honestly, I mean if you can bench 300lbs and you are about to fight a skinny-fat guy who could barely unrack 135, who might have more of an advantage? When it comes to people outside of all this MMA stuff (everyone is “doing” MMA now), the bigger/stronger person always wins the fight. Where are all these 130lb people that beat the crap out of big guys?
Just thought I’d get this in before this thread turns into a mixed hybrid of:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.
I wouldn’t. In most cases, I wouldn’t have to fight.
The best outcome of a street fight is to avoid it in the first place. One of the basic premises of Martial Arts is the avoidance of conflict, not the daring of it.
Having someone overestimate your fighting ability is going to save you more trouble in the long run.
What’s even better is my dad made sure I knew how to box long before I knew how to drive.
I think little people (as in wannabe MMA fighters who don’t compete) lately underestimating every big guy they see is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.[/quote]
In all honesty I think they overestimate them more on the internet, and don’t really voice their opinions too much in person.
With the few exceptions of little people that can actually fight, but even good fighters don’t over estimate a big person.
[quote]ab_power wrote:
I would say that weight-training/being bigger helps when it comes to fighting untrained people (90% of the population). If you are fairly strong in the gym, chances are if you cranked someone in the face or tried to take them down onto the pavement, you could do it quite easily.
Honestly, I mean if you can bench 300lbs and you are about to fight a skinny-fat guy who could barely unrack 135, who might have more of an advantage? When it comes to people outside of all this MMA stuff (everyone is “doing” MMA now), the bigger/stronger person always wins the fight. Where are all these 130lb people that beat the crap out of big guys?
Just thought I’d get this in before this thread turns into a mixed hybrid of:
Big guys always get their asses kicked
Lifting weights won’t help you in a fight
Bruce Lee could beat Fedor in a fight
[/quote]
It doesn’t matter - Chuck Norris would crush them all!
X is right, the mere sight of you should be enough for someone to deter them from fucking with you. When I shrunk down to 165, no one still messed with me because my frame is large, and it was visible I used to be big. Sizing someone up before a fight is nothing new, you see this when someone gives you that once over (that look from head to toe). If you see someone do this, I would recommend that you be ready for shit to go down.
[quote]ab_power wrote:
I would say that weight-training/being bigger helps when it comes to fighting untrained people (90% of the population). If you are fairly strong in the gym, chances are if you cranked someone in the face or tried to take them down onto the pavement, you could do it quite easily.
Honestly, I mean if you can bench 300lbs and you are about to fight a skinny-fat guy who could barely unrack 135, who might have more of an advantage? When it comes to people outside of all this MMA stuff (everyone is “doing” MMA now), the bigger/stronger person always wins the fight. Where are all these 130lb people that beat the crap out of big guys?
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.[/quote]
I went to a new gym yesterday and when I asked if they had any DBs over 35kg (77lbs) they girl at the desk joking asked if I really thought I would need such things.
Now, I’m not huge but I do bench 85lbs DBs for a single.
It might have something to do with me being 5’6".
I’m not going to judge someone with a proportinately large upper body as a formidable foe.
I’m going to judge the 6’6" brick shithouse with a gut bigger than his chest to be someone not to mess with however.
And what about tiny martial arts people? How do you judge skill?
I don’t think upper body strength has that much to do with fighting ability.
I think the determining factor is if the other guy has ‘Crazy Eyes’.
I don’t think it’s the face. My money is on the eyes, those windows to the soul. I know way to many fighters that don’t look strong, carry 20% body fat with eyes that kill!
[quote]streamline wrote:
I don’t think it’s the face. My money is on the eyes, those windows to the soul. I know way to many fighters that don’t look strong, carry 20% body fat with eyes that kill![/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.
I wouldn’t. In most cases, I wouldn’t have to fight.
The best outcome of a street fight is to avoid it in the first place. One of the basic premises of Martial Arts is the avoidance of conflict, not the daring of it.
Having someone overestimate your fighting ability is going to save you more trouble in the long run.
What’s even better is my dad made sure I knew how to box long before I knew how to drive.
I think little people (as in wannabe MMA fighters who don’t compete) lately underestimating every big guy they see is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.[/quote]
Us too. Many is the time we put the gloves on and whipped each others ass, plus we wrestled each other and put submission holds on each other back when they were called things like a hammerlock instead of a kimura.
Projecting confidence in my ability to throw punches and knowing that I can take a punch has probably kept my big mouth out of trouble more than anything else, even when I was 150 pounds.
Most people don’t want to fight, myself included but not being afraid is key.
[quote]Spry wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
I’d rather be underestimated.
I went to a new gym yesterday and when I asked if they had any DBs over 35kg (77lbs) they girl at the desk joking asked if I really thought I would need such things.
Now, I’m not huge but I do bench 85lbs DBs for a single.
It might have something to do with me being 5’6".
I’m not going to judge someone with a proportinately large upper body as a formidable foe.
I’m going to judge the 6’6" brick shithouse with a gut bigger than his chest to be someone not to mess with however.
And what about tiny martial arts people? How do you judge skill?
I don’t think upper body strength has that much to do with fighting ability.
I think the determining factor is if the other guy has ‘Crazy Eyes’.
Crazy beats big everytime.[/quote]
I think the point of the article is people do judge by looks and most often, they are RIGHT. You can look at someone’s neck and even jaw structure in some cases and tell that the rest of them is pretty built. It isn’t like someone would look at my head and assume I was 130lbs.
While many on this website LOVE to act as if the exceptions are the rule, in the real world, more often than not, that big fucker is about as strong as he looks or damn close to it.
I think the idea that “one max rep” equals the same as a bodybuilder doing the same weight 8 times has fried some brains.
[quote]ab_power wrote:
I would say that weight-training/being bigger helps when it comes to fighting untrained people (90% of the population). If you are fairly strong in the gym, chances are if you cranked someone in the face or tried to take them down onto the pavement, you could do it quite easily.
[/quote]
Who says the opponent is untrained? Chances are, if you’re a good boxer, you’re not very likely to get cranked in the face by someone who doesn’t know how to fight. I agree, someone who works out should be able to beat someone who does not.
I just don’t think that fighting ability can always be assessed by finding out how much someone can bench. I think that the authors of this study took a leap when they claimed that fighting skills could be determined by figuring out how strong someone looks. Strength might be revealed in someone’s face, and strength might be useful in a fight, but that doesn’t mean you can look someone in the face and figure out if they’ll be able to kick your ass.
That’s a ridiculous situation. What if you can bench 250 but have experience/training in fighting, and you’re about to fight a guy who can bench 300 who has never been in a fight before? Is upper body strength still going to be the deciding factor?
[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
ab_power wrote:
I would say that weight-training/being bigger helps when it comes to fighting untrained people (90% of the population). If you are fairly strong in the gym, chances are if you cranked someone in the face or tried to take them down onto the pavement, you could do it quite easily.
Who says the opponent is untrained? Chances are, if you’re a good boxer, you’re not very likely to get cranked in the face by someone who doesn’t know how to fight. I agree, someone who works out should be able to beat someone who does not.
I just don’t think that fighting ability can always be assessed by finding out how much someone can bench. I think that the authors of this study took a leap when they claimed that fighting skills could be determined by figuring out how strong someone looks. Strength might be revealed in someone’s face, and strength might be useful in a fight, but that doesn’t mean you can look someone in the face and figure out if they’ll be able to kick your ass.
Honestly, I mean if you can bench 300lbs and you are about to fight a skinny-fat guy who could barely unrack 135, who might have more of an advantage? When it comes to people outside of all this MMA stuff (everyone is “doing” MMA now), the bigger/stronger person always wins the fight. Where are all these 130lb people that beat the crap out of big guys?
That’s a ridiculous situation. What if you can bench 250 but have experience/training in fighting, and you’re about to fight a guy who can bench 300 who has never been in a fight before? Is upper body strength still going to be the deciding factor?
[/quote]
Is this where the debate starts? People making up random scenarios ad nauseum?
I can’t even remember the last time I saw several people benching over 300lbs. I also know that regardless of fighting ability, if you put some 5’5" 130lbs ninja against a 300lbs guy who can bench 500+lbs for reps, I would not be betting on the littlest ninja.
[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
ab_power wrote:
I would say that weight-training/being bigger helps when it comes to fighting untrained people (90% of the population). If you are fairly strong in the gym, chances are if you cranked someone in the face or tried to take them down onto the pavement, you could do it quite easily.
Who says the opponent is untrained? Chances are, if you’re a good boxer, you’re not very likely to get cranked in the face by someone who doesn’t know how to fight. I agree, someone who works out should be able to beat someone who does not.
I just don’t think that fighting ability can always be assessed by finding out how much someone can bench. I think that the authors of this study took a leap when they claimed that fighting skills could be determined by figuring out how strong someone looks. Strength might be revealed in someone’s face, and strength might be useful in a fight, but that doesn’t mean you can look someone in the face and figure out if they’ll be able to kick your ass.
Honestly, I mean if you can bench 300lbs and you are about to fight a skinny-fat guy who could barely unrack 135, who might have more of an advantage? When it comes to people outside of all this MMA stuff (everyone is “doing” MMA now), the bigger/stronger person always wins the fight. Where are all these 130lb people that beat the crap out of big guys?
That’s a ridiculous situation. What if you can bench 250 but have experience/training in fighting, and you’re about to fight a guy who can bench 300 who has never been in a fight before? Is upper body strength still going to be the deciding factor?
[/quote]
They did relate this back to cavemen times when people didn’t specifically train to bench or deadlift. It’s quite possible in 0 B.C when you learned how to fight from fighting that if you ran into somebody who looked more athletic that they also fought better.