[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
O.K. Helio I came up with a template that everyone could use to benchmark their progress. Everyone from the newby in his first workout to guys that are trying to make it on the Olympia stage one day.
Here goes…
[All lifts are your 1 rep max]
B= Bench Press
S= Squat
D= Deadlift
“Beginner Level”
Level I - “Newby”, train to accomplish those Level II benchmarks for strength.
Level II
B 185
S 225
D 275
Level III
B 205
S 245
D 315
“Intermidiate Level”
Level I
B 225
S 275
D 365
Level II
B 245
S 315
D 405
Level III
B 275
S 365
D 455
“Advanced Level”
Level I
B 315
S 405
D 495
Level II
B 365
S 455
D 545
Level III
B 405
S 495
D 585
“Elite Level”
Level I
B 455
S 545
D 635
Level II
B 495
S 585
D 675
Level III
B 545
S 635
D 725
“Olympic Level”
B 600+
S 700+
D 800+
[/quote]
I think that’s pretty solid, and will go along with that. The 315/405/495 was my goal I came up with about a year ago for myself.
Very interesting thread, OP. I like bullshitting about this kind of topic.
I like the way you are thinking and have broken everything down, but once you get to elite or advanced level you probably need something to account for bodyweight. Meaning no one 165 ever does the olympic level but a few 315 lbers might do that. Also are they raw or with gear? If they are raw I think the bench is a little high on most of the scores.
Again, just pointing out some food for thought. I liked the idea and have similar systems set up for myself and such.
I think that’s pretty solid, and will go along with that. The 315/405/495 was my goal I came up with about a year ago for myself.
Very interesting thread, OP. I like bullshitting about this kind of topic.[/quote]
Yes. That 3,4,5 goal is a nice one. I think once you can do all those three lifts… you’ve pretty much made it, and achieved alot of success. You can always go above it. But that was my untimate benchmark as well. Hitting 3 wheels on the bench press, 4 wheels on the squat, and 5 wheels on the pull are pretty satisfying. My first benchmark was to hit 2,3,4, or 225 bench, 315 squat, and a 405 pull which didn’t take too long but it was just as satisfying as well. If I was a powerlifter, I would be looking for 5,6,7… but I’m not so I’m satisfied just working on aesthetics now.
I like the way you are thinking and have broken everything down, but once you get to elite or advanced level you probably need something to account for bodyweight. Meaning no one 165 ever does the olympic level but a few 315 lbers might do that. Also are they raw or with gear? If they are raw I think the bench is a little high on most of the scores.
Again, just pointing out some food for thought. I liked the idea and have similar systems set up for myself and such.[/quote]
I think it all comes down to the individual too. Im sure there are smaller Olympic lifters doing lifts in the advanced or elite class. Those are just names. As for the bench, I thought they were all light. For me, my bench is my strongest lift by comparison to the other two, I was behind on the squat on everyone of those benchmarks. For instance when I could bench 275, I wasn’t squating much over that… maybe 300-315 for 1 rep. That gave me the squat benchmark to hit & bring up the squat because I looked at it as being behind on the squat and not really ahead on the bench.
I disagree somewhat…As it is possible to gain great strengh without much size going along with it…And the oppsite to gain a lot of size without as proportionate strenght gain going with it …I see it all the time a guy that looks like he should easily bench 455 struggle to pop out a set of 4 with 315 and a guy that looks like 315 would kill him pop up 405…i’ve seen this scenario play out on every major lift …
[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
I think it all comes down to the individual too. Im sure there are smaller Olympic lifters doing lifts in the advanced or elite class. Those are just names. As for the bench, I thought they were all light. For me, my bench is my strongest lift by comparison to the other two, I was behind on the squat on everyone of those benchmarks. For instance when I could bench 275, I wasn’t squating much over that… maybe 300-315 for 1 rep. That gave me the squat benchmark to hit & bring up the squat because I looked at it as being behind on the squat and not really ahead on the bench.[/quote]
I mentioned the bench because in the olympic level there are literally a handful of guys that bench 600 lbs raw in the world with competition form, whereas there are more guys that can do a 700 lb squat or an 800 lb dl although that is pretty rare too.
Looking at the IPF world records, which does involve the use of equipment, someone at 65 kg squatted over 700, someone at 100 kg benched over 600, and someone at 90 kg pulled over 800. So that gives you an idea of what body size people are capable of what lifts, and again that is with gear under strict standards. Raw it would obviously be even more difficult.
Should be helpful to beginners and advanced guys looking for something to help manage the strength side of progressive resistance.
With that in mind I wanted to add a few thoughts. Strength athletes and powerlifters’ main way of training for strength while minimizing size gains is by using high intensity(percentage of 1 rep max) and lower volume than a bodybuilder going after size would.
By using a strength goal as a benchmark for physique improvement we are not advocating training like a strength athlete but using base strength levels to make those lower intensity and higher volume bodybuilder style workouts more effective.
Strength and volume are both important parts of progressive resistance if your after the best physique but strength is a very easy goal to track.
Strength and volume are both important parts of progressive resistance if your after the best physique but strength is a very easy goal to track.[/quote]
You could track overall progress by combining the strength benchmark and something like Waterbury’s 24 to 50 rep volume guidelines for major muscle groups. Also keep the sets in the hypertrophy rep range of 6-10.
For example 5x8(40 total reps) on bench press with 225lbs would be a sample workout for someone near the 300lb bench press level. 40x225lbs=9000 as a specific volume goal benchmark. Like I said though volume isn’t as simple as a guideline goal as a strength bench mark because there are a lot more variables involved.
Yeah id say the 300 400 500 benchmarks are a very good achievement for the average guy. I bet only 0.1% of guys who train ever hit all three of those lifts with good form.
Im 21 and can nearly hit the bench and squat marks. I’ll be very chuffed when i do.
As for the 400 500 600 thats serious. I was training in the gym once at the same time the entire rugby union England team were in their and im not 100% sure, but i reckon theirs plenty of them who’d be no where near 400 500 600. And remember, this was the team who won the world cup, and its a sport where strength and explosive power are crucial, much like American Football i guess.
So i reckon at 400 500 600 your a badass, 500 600 700 a seroius badass!
There needs to be some bodyweight factor on all these max lifts. A 300 pound bench press is pretty impressive if you weight 165 pounds, but pretty pathetic if you weigh 270 pounds. So bench press 1.5 times your body weight, or bench press your body weight for 12 reps or something makes more sense to me.
Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. For example, in that link with the curl, chin and dip numbers, I rank at or above the highest advanced level for curls, chins and dips, but only in the middle intermediate level for the big lifts. Perhaps it is because at my age (52)
I am limited by my joints, or because I have always trained more in the 8-15 rep range for hypertrophy than in the lower rep range for 1RM maximization.
I like the original post if people stopped getting all uppity about the accuracy of the numbers under different criteria and un-koughted there panties and actually set them selfs those loft goals they might get somewhere, just a thought…
[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:
Yeah id say the 300 400 500 benchmarks are a very good achievement for the average guy. I bet only 0.1% of guys who train ever hit all three of those lifts with good form.
Im 21 and can nearly hit the bench and squat marks. I’ll be very chuffed when i do.
As for the 400 500 600 thats serious. I was training in the gym once at the same time the entire rugby union England team were in their and im not 100% sure, but i reckon theirs plenty of them who’d be no where near 400 500 600.
And remember, this was the team who won the world cup, and its a sport where strength and explosive power are crucial, much like American Football i guess.
So i reckon at 400 500 600 your a badass, 500 600 700 a seroius badass![/quote]
In reality how much does a full back in rugby really need to bench? probably not that much saying that though I think Andrew Tindell the English Tighthead Squats 572
There needs to be some bodyweight factor on all these max lifts. A 300 pound bench press is pretty impressive if you weight 165 pounds, but pretty pathetic if you weigh 270 pounds. So bench press 1.5 times your body weight, or bench press your body weight for 12 reps or something makes more sense to me.
Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. For example, in that link with the curl, chin and dip numbers, I rank at or above the highest advanced level for curls, chins and dips, but only in the middle intermediate level for the big lifts. Perhaps it is because at my age (52)
I am limited by my joints, or because I have always trained more in the 8-15 rep range for hypertrophy than in the lower rep range for 1RM maximization. [/quote]
I like tis comment. 1.5 times bw is good on bench, 2 times bw breaking parallel good on squat
